[shimmer n roar]

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Simple point, those who think the W5000s, SRH940s, K701, ER4Ps sound natural, likely will never get the Audeze house sound. The W3000s are a different ball game altogether as are the HD800s.

 
um, i'd never describe the w5000 or the w3000anv as "natural", which is a term that is used subjectively in the audio realm. they are uniquely "colored" phones and i have consistently described them as such, and you know that. i quite liked the lcd2's sound despite its treble being shelved down. and i disagree that the w3000anv is dramatically different or superior to the w5000, but we've been over this at length in the other thread. the hd800 has a different presentation and measures better than both the w3000anv and w5000 if that's important to you. it's an open phone, whereas they are closed models, so yeah, it's a different headphone alright. different makes and models all vary to some degree. this hobby would be very boring if all headphones looked and sounded the same.
 
i can't see any reason why someone shouldn't enjoy more "neutral" headphones i.e., flat frequency response, as well as headphones that sound more "colored". i think that most of us are capable of appreciating more than one type of sound signature, and there are many head-fi'ers who do. there's no law against it. different flavors for different moods - it's all good. i'd kill to hear the stax sr-009, and it measures exceptionally well too.

 

[priest]

Quote:

20 minutes versus weeks in one's home with a more suitable amp might change your mind.

 
Did you audition the PS1000 in your home for weeks?

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

 
Did you audition the PS1000 in your home for weeks?

 
Had one on loan for almost a week about 18 months ago. Even after several days of comparisons, it just couldn't keep up with the rest of my cans. I have also heard it easily a dozen times since. I tried to really like it (being a Grado fan) and was planning on buying it, but it just didn't do it for me....especially at its price point.

 

[priest]

Quote:

Had one on loan for almost a week about 18 months ago. Even after several days of comparisons, it just couldn't keep up with the rest of my cans. I have also heard it easily a dozen times since. I tried to really like it (being a Grado fan) and was planning on buying it, but it just didn't do it for me....especially at its price point.

 
"Just didn't do it for me" I can accept; "couldn't keep up" I can't. It strikes me as a gratuitous slur.
 
Moving on: dleblanc343, you give some very thoughtful advice in post #2. Excellent points.

 

[the fool]

why dont you get Lcd2 and W3000anv instead?

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

Quote:
 
"Just didn't do it for me" I can accept; "couldn't keep up" I can't. It strikes me as a gratuitous slur.
 
Moving on: dleblanc343, you give some very thoughtful advice in post #2. Excellent points.

Hardly "gratuitous" IMO, simply put on a technical level, it couldn't keep up based on MY experiences. I was all set to pick up a pair too. Have a look at Page #2 below. My thoughts are pretty much in line with the article.
 
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/headphone-measurements-explained-square-wave-response
 
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/GradoPS1000.pdf
 
For this kind of money (over $1500), I expect technical performance as well: deep bass (without a mid-bass hump), nicely balanced mids, smooth (non-piercing) treble, and low distortion. None of which I found on the PS1000. That's not to say you won't really like or enjoy them, but for me and at this price range, it couldn't keep up with the HD800s or LCD-3s. I might just pick up another RS1 down the road. Still the best Grado to my ears and a great price/performance ratio when bought used.

 

[SONIC BOOM]

I agree, I would buy the rs1 over the ps1000 anyday.

 

[priest]

Quote:

Hardly "gratuitous" IMO, simply put on a technical level, it couldn't keep up based on MY experiences. I was all set to pick up a pair too. Have a look at Page #2 below. My thoughts are pretty much in line with the article.
 
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/headphone-measurements-explained-square-wave-response
 
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/GradoPS1000.pdf
 
For this kind of money (over $1500), I expect technical performance as well: deep bass (without a mid-bass hump), nicely balanced mids, smooth (non-piercing) treble, and low distortion. None of which I found on the PS1000. That's not to say you won't really like or enjoy them, but for me and at this price range, it couldn't keep up with the HD800s or LCD-3s. I might just pick up another RS1 down the road. Still the best Grado to my ears and a great price/performance ratio when bought used.

 
That's your opinion. I strongly disagree. I've been listening to the PS1000 for over a year, and "piercing" treble and distortion of any kind is something I've never heard once. Of course I was listening at reasonable volumes. And that's all I have to say about that.

 

[Focker]

There's really no point for anyone to even audition a Grado headphone if they're expecting technical proficiency in terms of how they measure. Grado headphones are less a science and more an art. They basically tell you that right on their home page...they don't even focus on the measurements, so (and I dont' mean this directed at MH) whether it's Tyll or whoever else, posting Grado measurements is just a wasted exercise. On top of that, Tyll hates Grados...he's pretty much on record several times saying that lol. 
 
I think it's funny when someone posts Grado measurements (again, not directed at MH) and acts as if they're stumbling upon some revelation...it's like you can almost hear them saying, "ah-HA!!! Just LOOK at what I have discovered!!!"  It's just kinda silly...as I've said before, if someone is after technical proficiency and they want all the lines to be pretty, there are headphones out there like that. The Senns and the LCDs mentioned in this thread are great examples of that. But I'm glad that there is a company out there that takes the approach that Grado does, and the more communication I've had with the company the more pride I've taken in owning some Grado headphones. 

 

[shimmer n roar]

every john grado headphone has tipped-up treble and the ps1000 is no exception. however, i found the ps1000's treble to be as smooth as butter and not at all "piercing". if we judged grados on the measurements alone, then they would be roundly condemned. john grado tunes his headphones by ear so it seems incongruous to me to assess them using anything other than your own. i would have thought that someone purporting to be a grado fan would "get that".
 
if someone is prepared to pay $1300 for a uniquely "colored" headphone that doesn't measure well such as the a-t w3000anv, then it seems hypocritical for that person to criticize a $1700 headphone on that basis. surely the decision to buy one rather than the other has far more to do with personal preference than technical performance.  

 

[LCfiner]

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That's your opinion. I strongly disagree. I've been listening to the PS1000 for over a year, and "piercing" treble and distortion of any kind is something I've never heard once. Of course I was listening at reasonable volumes. And that's all I have to say about that.

 
Measurements aren't opinion. your (or mine) appreciation for the sound they produce is.

 

[Gradofan2]

Quote:

 
That's your opinion. I strongly disagree. I've been listening to the PS1000 for over a year, and "piercing" treble and distortion of any kind is something I've never heard once. Of course I was listening at reasonable volumes. And that's all I have to say about that.

 
Well... that's both true and false - not your opinion, but how Grados sound.  It all depends on how well they match the electrical specs of the particular amp and DAC.  Grados require a set up with very low impedance and high current output to sound smooth and free of distortion (whether stident highs, or clipping in general).  If not well matched they're highs can sound painfully strident, and their lows will be rough and distorted.
 
For those fortunate few, who have heard them with a well matched set up, there are few phones that can sound as good as Grados, if any.  And... they do not have strident highs, when properly matched to the set up.  
 
And... once again... the measurements are totally irrelevant - all that matters is how they sound... and... they sound more like "real, live music" than any other phones available.   

 

[LCfiner]

See, I whole-heartedly disagree. Measurements are very important because they show that sometimes, what we consider to be pleasing (or describe as) accurate, is anything but.
 
The PS1000 do not measure like a headphone that reproduces recordings accurately. They measure like a headphone that adds its own flavour to everything, whether you want it or not. If you like this and want to say that it sounds like "real, live music" that's your preference. But it's important to understand that this statement is based on the pleasing effects of distortion and uneven frequency response that makes some recordings sound more "lively".
 
And I think that when we're looking at headphones that cost this much, it's important to know all the facts to make an informed decision. someone saying that the PS1000 sounds more like real music than anything else could paint a picture of a more accurate headphone than the PS1000 truly is. At least with the measurements, someone who cares about fidelity can make an informed decision about whether they might like the sound of the PS1000 or something more accurate.

 

[shimmer n roar]

Quote:

 
Measurements aren't opinion. your (or mine) appreciation for the sound they produce is.

 
regardless of what the measurements indicate, priest doesn't hear the ps1000's treble as piercing or its bass distorted as mh does. it's a difference of opinion based on perception.

 

[shimmer n roar]

Quote:

See, I whole-heartedly disagree. Measurements are very important because they show that sometimes, what we consider to be pleasing (or describe as) accurate, is anything but.
 
The PS1000 do not measure like a headphone that reproduces recordings accurately. They measure like a headphone that adds its own flavour to everything, whether you want it or not. If you like this and want to say that it sounds like "real, live music" that's your preference. But it's important to understand that this statement is based on the pleasing effects of distortion and uneven frequency response that makes some recordings sound more "lively".
 
And I think that when we're looking at headphones that cost this much, it's important to know all the facts to make an informed decision. someone saying that the PS1000 sounds more like real music than anything else could paint a picture of a more accurate headphone than the PS1000 truly is. At least with the measurements, someone who cares about fidelity can make an informed decision about whether they might like the sound of the PS1000 or something more accurate.

 
every headphone adds its own flavor. the lcd iterations do, so does the hd800, t1, stax electrostats, ps1000, th900, w3000anv, and so on and so forth. it's a matter of degree and it comes down to which flavor you prefer. there is no such thing as a neutral headphone if you define neutrality by a flat frequency response, though the stax sr-009 currently comes closest based on tyll's measurements. if the ps1000 makes a recording sound more like a live musical performance to me than say, the hd800, and i prefer that kind of listening experience, then why should i care about what the measurements say? headphone measurements can only tell us so much. they cannot measure the intangibles that cause us to prefer one flavor of headphone to another when we hear them.