[TidalWave]

You're right, we can go up and up in quality and in price. Given a flexible budget, I could take your advice. I mentioned the price cap for a reason, and also space is at a premium -- powered speakers + record player without a receiver would be best. The TEAC includes a phono preamp, and also a USB output which can be handy to digitize the vinyl collection for the rest of the family at some point. My stepfather is in his 60s and wears hearing aides, so while he is indeed a music connoisseur, I am not entirely sure he will be able to hear major differences between components versus a good strategic set-up and good speakers. In that regard, would possibly consider a receiver for things like good DSP, which can give greater perceived clarity: my lowly Pioneer receiver does wonders with 2 stereo speakers with "Front Stage Surround Advance" option and "Advanced Sound Retriever" function enabled for home theater movie and occasional music listening.

P.S.: I'm still looking into RT84, it's just that not including a phono preamp and being significantly more expensive, it's running over budget.

 

[KG Jag]

One problem is that all the built in phono pre-amps I have heard are poor to very poor, with the exception of the one provided by VPI, which is well above your entire budget. A second problem is that the build quality on the TT's you seem to be considering is poor to so-so, as are the included cartridges.

Another thing to consider is whether or not a manual TT is a good fit for you stepfather. The Fluance has auto stop.

Space can be saved by stacking the TT and receiver with a rack or cheap side table. Speakers, both powered and not, vary in size. You can select what works for his situation.

 

[gr33nhorn]

Vintage Japan tables, even cheap ones, usually are badass. I would hold on to the Sony and look for a stereo technician and see if he/she would give the Sony TT a once over for $50ish.

I just wanted to post +1 to this. I have around 5 mid end vintage Japanses TT's - all cost <$50, and are miles above anything under anything you can buy new for several times the price.
I'm in the CT area - Can help anyone who is interested in fixing up an old TT they have or from craigslist or FB marketplace.

 

[TidalWave]

Thank you for your reply! I understand the issues with the budget turntables better now. I'll keep an eye on good deals on that Fluance model. Are there any older models that I should look out for that would be similarly good compared to the Fluance RT84 but lower cost now, especially second-hand?

One problem is that all the built in phono pre-amps I have heard are poor to very poor, with the exception of the one provided by VPI, which is well above your entire budget. A second problem is that the build quality on the TT's you seem to be considering is poor to so-so, as are the included cartridges.

Another thing to consider is whether or not a manual TT is a good fit for you stepfather. The Fluance has auto stop.

Space can be saved by stacking the TT and receiver with a rack or cheap side table. Speakers, both powered and not, vary in size. You can select what works for his situation.

 

[KG Jag]

Vintage Technics TT's, especially those checked out and serviced by a reputable tech, are good bets. Most of these will be automatic or semi-automatic TT's. The direct drive models are superior, but the belt drives are good too. Cartridges that come with them will vary greatly in age, condition and quality. The later P-mount versions are OK but not as good as earlier models. On eBay example that you might consider is:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/TECHNICS-S...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

 

[gr33nhorn]

post a zip code, and I can point to any good deals on FB marketplace or craigslist
Buying a TT , especially a cheaper one off ebay is a bit risky because of the risk of damage, or the balooning shipping cost to pack a TT in damage proof packaging
You are better off buying locally!

 

[KG Jag]

More here:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Technics-S...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Here's a Dual:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dual-Model...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

 

[KG Jag]

Fully test any TT you buy locally from an unknown person. You will need a receiver (or similar equipment) and good headphones in addition to records (preferably 45's & 33 1/3rd's) you know well. If you don't know TT's, take along someone who does.

 

[TidalWave]

Oof, that could be rough. Can't guarantee a receiver, though have plenty of good headphones. I guess I should stick with reputable sellers. I've had Technics receivers recommended by an acquaintance as well. Since I'm mostly ignorant of vinyl record player intricacies: is there anything different in practice when buying a "vintage" TT? Other than the obvious, like looking at part conditions and how likely any given parts be to be on their last breath from extended use. Same general deal of connecting both new and old TTs to speakers via any decent vintage or new receiver, and good to go, with some tuning? Do newer record players come with some sort of auto-tuning options for newbie people like myself?

 

[KG Jag]

With regard to vintage TT's, you first have to make sure that they work as they should. They were built from the 70's into the early 90's. You have to check everything you can: power cord, cables (as most will be hard wired), motor, speed, constant speed--so there is no wow and flutter or speed variation, cuing function must be tested, check quality of sound and tracking force (you need a gauge). Listen for hum, motor and mechanical noise you should not be hearing from a properly operating TT. Make sure all functions (e.g. auto start and auto return as applicable) work as they should. Does the TT cover work as it should--are there cracks in the hinges or cover? That's off the top of my head. Know that a mis-alined, worn or damaged cartridge/stylus can make an otherwise good TT sound like crap and even damage records. Be prepared to clean the stylus (needle), as many will be crapped up.

Technics receivers are OK (especially from the top of their line), but in the vintage period Marantz, Pioneer, Sansui, Yamaha, Sony and others will generally be better choices. See:https://classicreceivers.com/

Virtually all vintage receivers had at least one phono pre-amp built in. Most newer receivers (built sometime in the 90's forward) don't. New (with any internal phono pre-amp switched off) or old TT's should be plugged into the phono input and the grounding wire (if it exists grounded to the back of the receiver--you will see a grounding screw). New er TT's with built in pre-amps functioning can be plugged into the Aux inputs. Some older receivers have ceramic phono inputs--don't use that. By the mid-70's these were gone.

Use speaker wire (or lamp cord) to wire the speakers to the receiver: + to + and - to -. Use 8 ohm speakers, as some vintage receivers do not do well with anything rated lower than 8 ohms. You can check and download manuals and more here:
https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/sherwood/s-7100.shtml

I don't understand your question about auto-tuning with regard to TT's. Bass, treble, balance, loudness compensation, and sometimes other adjustments are all done with the receiver.

 

[TidalWave]

Re: auto-tuning, I meant things pertaining to mechanical operation, speed, balance, and such. Not sound effects.

What do you think of Technics SL1200 Mk2? There's a Craigslist deal for around $300 OBO, no dust cover, but "in perfect condition", and I'm curious about how that would compare to something like Fluance RT84. I've been reading that Technics might not be for the best sound, more for robustness, but that tells me nothing--maybe the sound is still more than good enough for my purposes.

 

[KG Jag]

TT's then and now are designed to be turned on and ready to play a record at the speed that has been selected. Some vintage TT's have quartz speed lock, strobes, pitch control and even programmable tracking. In all cases you will have to balance the tone arm, set tracking weight weight and (in most cases) dial in the proper anti-skating number, which is tied to the tracking weight (force). Installing a new cartridge is another task that a newbie will almost certainly not want to undertake. The good thing about Technics TT's is that they have a headshell that can easily be swapped out. You can buy premounted cartridges (like the Ortofon 2m Red or Blue) on a Technics compatable headshell--making it as close to plug and go as you will find in the world of TT's. The only thing easier is replacing a stylus, which is almost always plug and go.

Unlike the Technics TT's with which I am most familiar, the SL 1200 (all marks) is made to work in the DJ environment--so it's more of a Swiss Army Knife. It would not be my first choice but could serve your needs. The general model (all marks) has been in production for almost 50 years. As a DJ TT, it could be subject to much hard use and abuse. The cartridge may be great for record scratching but not so good for playing an album. In short the devil is in the details of the particular unit you are considering. If there is no dust cover, the odds are strong that it has been used for DJing. At $300 or so you may want to get a new Fluance, Pro-Ject or Music Hall with a new cartridge and a warranty. Here's more about the SL 1200:

https://www.vinylengine.com/library/technics/sl-1200.shtml

 

[TidalWave]

TT's then and now are designed to be turned on and ready to play a record at the speed that has been selected. Some vintage TT's have quartz speed lock, strobes, pitch control and even programmable tracking. In all cases you will have to balance the tone arm, set tracking weight weight and (in most cases) dial in the proper anti-skating number, which is tied to the tracking weight (force). Installing a new cartridge is another task that a newbie will almost certainly not want to undertake. The good thing about Technics TT's is that they have a headshell that can easily be swapped out. You can buy premounted cartridges (like the Ortofon 2m Red or Blue) on a Technics compatable headshell--making it as close to plug and go as you will find in the world of TT's. The only thing easier is replacing a stylus, which is almost always plug and go.

Unlike the Technics TT's with which I am most familiar, the SL 1200 (all marks) is made to work in the DJ environment--so it's more of a Swiss Army Knife. It would not be my first choice but could serve your needs. The general model (all marks) has been in production for almost 50 years. As a DJ TT, it could be subject to much hard use and abuse. The cartridge may be great for record scratching but not so good for playing an album. In short the devil is in the details of the particular unit you are considering. If there is no dust cover, the odds are strong that it has been used for DJing. At $300 or so you may want to get a new Fluance, Pro-Ject or Music Hall with a new cartridge and a warranty. Here's more about the SL 1200:

https://www.vinylengine.com/library/technics/sl-1200.shtml

Fantastic info, very helpful--thank you! I've inquired with my stepfather about his budget again to get a more definite number. You are right about that TT having been used for DJ gigs. I'm keeping an eye on Fluance RT82-84. That RT84 sale for $350 is currently over. Which Pro-Ject and Music Hall models should I be looking at?

Another thing I'm trying to figure out is outputs and wireless transmission. Specifically, it would be useful to have a USB output to have the option of digitizing the records. I don't know if there are receivers with this option or dedicated devices, other than those that come built in with some TTs already (like on Teac TN-400s). That's not a pre-requisite, however; we can manage without that option. The other thing is the option of projecting music from the record player to speakers in a distant room. I have a couple of spare Chromecast Music dongles, but those won't be helpful for this scenario, as they only stream music hosted on-line. I know sometimes my stepfather will want to start up a record in his office and then be able to have guests hear it in the living room, where stretching extra long wires is not a good option.

 

[KG Jag]

Glad to hear that our prior discussion has been helpful.

At the moment I'm not aware of any great sales on TT's in or near your budget. The most interesting (and it probably won't last long), is $299 on the DP-300F Turntable + Ortofon 2M Red Upgrade. The good points are that this is a fully automatic TT with an excellent (for it's price point) cartridge and other quality upgrades/extras. It also has a (poor) built in phono pre-amp that can be turned off. It's weakness is build quality. Link:

ttps://www.turntablelab.com/products/denon-dp-300f-turntable-ortofon-2m-red-upgrade

See also the base model, now on sale for $199:

https://www.amazon.com/Denon-DP-300F-Automatic-Turntable-Equalizer/dp/B000FMNBXG/

To get a decent sound with this base model you need to replace the stylus with something like this $35 plug and play upgrade:

https://www.lpgear.com/product/DSN85IE.html

The beginning of the good Pro-Ject TT's is the Pro-Ject Debut Carbon DC Turntable with Ortofon 2M Red Cartridge for $399. You can keep an eye out for a sale or open box/demo offerings from authorized dealers. See:

https://www.amazon.com/Pro-Ject-Carbon-Turntable-Ortofon-Cartridge/dp/B00IIMXBHG

and

https://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PRDECADC

If your budget was higher, you could consider the Pro-Ject RecordMaster HiResTurntable:

https://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=1PRRECMASH

or the downline (lesser cartridge, etc) model:

https://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=1PRRECMAS:

In any case reading these pages/tab/manuals will probably be helpful to you about ripping records into digital files. I have no idea how good or bad the built in phono pre-amps are on either of these units.

I have no interest in converting analog into digital form and then playing elsewhere in the house. So someone else will have to help you with that. I will mention that ripping vinyl to digital in high quality form requires a quality cartridge and pre-amp. From a vintage or classic TT, you should be looking for something like the Parasound Zphono MM/MC Phono Preamplifier with USB:

https://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=1PAZPHOUSB

 

[TidalWave]

Interesting, this discussion says that Denon DP-300F is basically the same model as Fluance RT81 and Teac TN-300:
https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=98911

"The three turntables are technically the same as they are built at the Ya Horng OEM factory in Taiwan or mainland China. If I were to choose out of the three, I would choose the Fluance RT81."
"All these turntables are inside actually the same, made on the same basic model in the same factory. You pay more or less for design of turntable and for some small improvements."
"These are the same as the Pioneer pl 30k."

So in that regard, perhaps getting that Teac-TN-400s deal at $170 when it was available + cartridge upgrade would also have resulted in more or less the same thing as $200 DP-300F + some upgrade.

Still looking at others on the list.