[Mike Scarpitti]

Quote:

Originally posted by elnero I think you might have to ask one of the moderators nicely.

Yas, its ambrassing too maik spilling airs

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike Scarpitti Now there we may have an argument. Electrostatics have a different sort of structure than dynamics, and they don't have the same kind of suspension. There is no 'voice coil' as such. Thus there is no attachment of the voice coil to the suspension as there is in a magnetic phone. It simply doesn't exist. Now, whether the 1.35 micron element needs to loosen up is another issue. I doubt it.

It's a well known fact that electrostats need break-in for best sound. Their whole diaphragm represents a suspension, thus its affected by mechanical stress in the form of loosening its tension with time. Break-in has nothing to do with a voice-coil, BTW (as far as the mechanical part is concerned).

 

[SageOHaze]

Quote:

Originally posted by JaZZ It's a well known fact that electrostats need break-in for best sound. Their whole diaphragm represents a suspension, thus its affected by mechanical stress in the form of loosening its tension with time. Break-in has nothing to do with a voice-coil, BTW (as far as the mechanical part is concerned).

maybe mike is/was missing out on the true sound? poor mike

 

[Mike Scarpitti]

Quote:

Originally posted by JaZZ It's a well known fact that electrostats need break-in for best sound. Their whole diaphragm represents a suspension, thus its affected by mechanical stress in the form of loosening its tension with time. Break-in has nothing to do with a voice-coil, BTW (as far as the mechanical part is concerned).

You said: "Break-in has nothing to do with a voice-coil, BTW (as far as the mechanical part is concerned".

HUH? The voice coil is what requires the suspension! It's the suspension that softens up, according to the reply from Sennheiser- Willett. Now electrostatics may indeed need a break-in period, but clearly not for the same reasons. That question I'll leave open until we hear from Stax.

 

[SageOHaze]

Mike, i've been wondering. I have tons of free time, but you seem to have the ability to post here at all hours. What knid of job do you have?

 

[Guardian]

Occupation: Marketing

 

[Mike Scarpitti]

Quote:

Originally posted by JaZZ It's a well known fact that electrostats need break-in for best sound. Their whole diaphragm represents a suspension, thus its affected by mechanical stress in the form of loosening its tension with time. Break-in has nothing to do with a voice-coil, BTW (as far as the mechanical part is concerned).

It may be a fact, but it musn't be well-known, since I never heard it said.

 

[Beagle]

Quote:

Originally posted by JaZZ It's a well known fact that electrostats need break-in for best sound. Their whole diaphragm represents a suspension, thus its affected by mechanical stress in the form of loosening its tension with time. Break-in has nothing to do with a voice-coil, BTW (as far as the mechanical part is concerned).

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike Scarpitti HUH? The voice coil is what requires the suspension! It's the suspension that softens up, according to the reply from Sennheiser- Willett. Now electrostatics may indeed need a break-in period, but clearly not for the same reasons.

Modern hard loudspeaker membranes (metal, keramics, fiberglass...) are designed to vibrate uniformly over the whole surface in their usable frequency areas. The suspension nominally is the only part which is physically streched and bended, at least theoretically. The voice coil sits in the middle and applies the force to the membrane. There's a slight partial vibration or bending even in the usable frequency range though. Now there are still other designs with softer membranes (e.g. polypropylene), acting as partial vibrators, at least with mids and highs. That means, the higher the frequency, the smaller the vibrating area.

Headphones belong to the second category (with at least one exception I know: the AKG K 1000), even more so than typical speakers: only low frequencies move the membrane uniformly, the rest is (controlled, damped) partial vibrations. But still there's a division between membrane and suspension area; if not by a different material (rare, if at all), then by a different structure. So you can't speak of a voice coil suspended by a suspension. But actually it doesn't really matter.

Electrostatics have no voice coil; their diaphragm is driven by a force evenly distributed over the whole surface. But the diaphragm is very thin, soft and elastic. It is streched and destretched and even bended (e.g. also by partial vibrations), so it's in its whole shape kind of suspension itself, thus affected by mechanical stress. Break-in has at least a similar effect as with dynamic speakers/headphones.

Yes, it's really well known from all foil transducers; my main source is the German hi-fi press. It's been reported since many years, and from Martin Logans, e.g., not long ago.

 

[Mike Scarpitti]

Quote:

Originally posted by JaZZ Modern hard loudspeaker membranes (metal, keramics, fiberglass...) are designed to vibrate uniformly over the whole surface in their usable frequency areas. The suspension nominally is the only part which is physically streched and bended, at least theoretically. The voice coil sits in the middle and applies the force to the membrane. There's a slight partial vibration or bending even in the usable frequency range though. Now there are still other designs with softer membranes (e.g. polypropylene), acting as partial vibrators, at least with mids and highs. That means, the higher the frequency, the smaller the vibrating area. Headphones belong to the second category (with at least one exception I know: the AKG K 1000), even more so than typical speakers: only low frequencies move the membrane uniformly, the rest is (controlled, damped) partial vibrations. But still there's a division between membrane and suspension area; if not by a different material (rare, if at all), then by a different structure. So you can't speak of a voice coil suspended by a suspension. But actually it doesn't really matter. Electrostatics have no voice coil; their diaphragm is driven by a force evenly distributed over the whole surface. But the diaphragm is very thin, soft and elastic. It is streched and destretched and even bended (e.g. also by partial vibrations), so it's in its whole shape kind of suspension itself, thus affected by mechanical stress. Break-in has at least a similar effect as with dynamic speakers/headphones. Yes, it's really well known from all foil transducers; my main source is the German hi-fi press. It's been reported since many years, and from Martin Logans, e.g., not long ago.

As I said, electrostatics MAY require break-in, but for different reasons.

 

[JaZZ]

Where's the difference?

 

[00940]

Jazz : are you blind ?? Can't you see the transcendental difference between dynamic and electrostatic cans ?

 

[Mike Scarpitti]

Quote:

Originally posted by JaZZ Where's the difference?

It has no 'suspension' such as is required by a voice coil. (Think of a speaker). The diaphragm may (MAY) need to loosen up, but I can't see why it would be necessary, as the whole is suspended from the edges.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally posted by 00940 Jazz : are you blind ?? Can't you see the transcendental difference between dynamic and electrostatic cans ?

Blind and deaf...

Mike, your interpretation is really strange from my point of view, but actually we're speaking of the same thing, don't we?

 

[Mike Scarpitti]

Quote:

Originally posted by JaZZ Blind and deaf... Mike, your interpretation is really strange from my point of view, but actually we're speaking of the same thing, don't we?

A dynamic phone driver is actually a miniature dome or cone loudspeaker driven from its center (!) by a voice coil suspended in the center of a magnet by a pliable suspension system. The electrostatic is driven across it whole width by electrostatic forces, and it has nothing directly comparable to the suspension system seen in a dynamic system. Nonethless, I'll concede that for reasons unknown to me it may require a little settling in to work at its best.