Schiit Yggdrasil Impressions thread
May 30, 2020 at 10:21 AM Post #10,066 of 12,300
Amirm or outsourced minions again?

I hope your not pointing this at me. You seem to like to have a little dig or a sarcastic comment Scott. Ultimately I replied to the previous quote where the person was talking about DACs the size of matchboxes. I am certainly allowed my own opinion, and no I am no fanboy or minion. My first post a couple of weeks ago was written out of pure displeasure at the attitudes and aggressiveness of people in this specific thread, I then replied to a post. For over ten years I have been on here, hence I was shocked at what I was reading.

Sort your attitude out.
 
May 30, 2020 at 10:30 AM Post #10,067 of 12,300
@bigjim can you speak to which dacs you've tried that have led you to believe that there is virtually no difference in them and a small cheap dac with selectively good measurements is your choice over a dac that may have a larger power supply or larger potentially better analog output stage?

not trying to pick a fight but would like to understand as in the past 3 months I've had the chord qutest, Brooklyn plus, Yggy and Lumin T2 at the house and they all had differences in sound. The chord being the most distinct in sounds with sharper transients but less lifelike tone and timbre, the Brooklyn being less detailed than the Chord but somewhat more natural in tone and the Yggy being the most natural tone and timbre of the three but not as fast.
 
May 30, 2020 at 11:01 AM Post #10,068 of 12,300
@bigjim can you speak to which dacs you've tried that have led you to believe that there is virtually no difference in them and a small cheap dac with selectively good measurements is your choice over a dac that may have a larger power supply or larger potentially better analog output stage?

not trying to pick a fight but would like to understand as in the past 3 months I've had the chord qutest, Brooklyn plus, Yggy and Lumin T2 at the house and they all had differences in sound. The chord being the most distinct in sounds with sharper transients but less lifelike tone and timbre, the Brooklyn being less detailed than the Chord but somewhat more natural in tone and the Yggy being the most natural tone and timbre of the three but not as fast.

Of course, I've demo'd Hugo 1, Hugo 2, Rega DAC, Arcam DACs, Audiolab MDac, obviously the portable ones I have now including a couple of Ibassos, the SMSL I use as my desktop rig into an Atom etc.

So really anything from £50 up to circa £2k.

I can't say any have effected tone whatsoever, but please don't think this doesn't mean I think all kit is replaceable with modern circuits etc. Amps to a certain degree I do feel are important, but really it's the quality of the file and the headphones / speakers that actually do the only part that counts, the DAC really just needs to perform to spec.

As I put on my first post, things have changed and lots of kit now that costs very little will perform better than the stuff the boutique manufacturers are putting out. I don't blame them because it's their business, but they need to adapt and the owners need to realise that yes, they are most of the time paying for a nicer chassis etc so not to take offence when someone shows them that their rack full of kit really doesn't do anything more than a mobile phone and a small amp can do.

But to get back on track, as I said, I posted because I didn't like what I read, there was definite animosity towards anyone who reads the stuff at ASR and for no valid reason and quite defensive and overt posts that just showed people up.
 
May 30, 2020 at 11:31 AM Post #10,069 of 12,300
Of course, I've demo'd Hugo 1, Hugo 2, Rega DAC, Arcam DACs, Audiolab MDac, obviously the portable ones I have now including a couple of Ibassos, the SMSL I use as my desktop rig into an Atom etc.

So really anything from £50 up to circa £2k.

I can't say any have effected tone whatsoever, but please don't think this doesn't mean I think all kit is replaceable with modern circuits etc. Amps to a certain degree I do feel are important, but really it's the quality of the file and the headphones / speakers that actually do the only part that counts, the DAC really just needs to perform to spec.

As I put on my first post, things have changed and lots of kit now that costs very little will perform better than the stuff the boutique manufacturers are putting out. I don't blame them because it's their business, but they need to adapt and the owners need to realise that yes, they are most of the time paying for a nicer chassis etc so not to take offence when someone shows them that their rack full of kit really doesn't do anything more than a mobile phone and a small amp can do.

But to get back on track, as I said, I posted because I didn't like what I read, there was definite animosity towards anyone who reads the stuff at ASR and for no valid reason and quite defensive and overt posts that just showed people up.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply, so basically you've not heard a discernable difference in any of the dacs listed in your post?

I think we just don't hear ear to ear as a Sony Wm1asounds very different/better than say an lg20

BTW I think it's great if someone is happy with a portable device or phone and agree obviously the headphone is the largest determining factor.
 
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May 30, 2020 at 1:04 PM Post #10,071 of 12,300
Of course, I've demo'd Hugo 1, Hugo 2, Rega DAC, Arcam DACs, Audiolab MDac, obviously the portable ones I have now including a couple of Ibassos, the SMSL I use as my desktop rig into an Atom etc.


But to get back on track, as I said, I posted because I didn't like what I read, there was definite animosity towards anyone who reads the stuff at ASR and for no valid reason and quite defensive and overt posts that just showed people up.

"For no valid reason," you say? The animosity you mention, at least mine, is definitely not directed toward anyone who "reads the stuff at ASR," as you claim here. I have read some of that stuff myself despite my growing distaste. I also do not have any animosity against anyone who does not hear any differences in DACS, anymore than I harbor animosities toward "colorblind" people for not seeing colors that I can see.

My personal animosity is directed against people who do not know how to filter what they've read over there in anyway, and take the stuff like some kind of "gospel," and go around proselytizing like Amirm's disciples. They regurgitate those ideas without any discrimination, and without showing any personal sense of discernment whatsoever, preaching them, and pretending on the basis of what they've read there, to be "experts" of all audio technology that has been "measured" there. They behave a bit like the "Jehovah's witnesses" of Amirm's site, trashing equipment that he trashes, and praising those that his praises, and regurgitating whatever he says, I would like to say "like sheep," except that I wouldn't like to insult sheep. Seduced by the "measurements" which they automatically assimilate to "science," they have never stopped to examine the integrity of the conditions in which they're taken or ask how the validity of the big leap from those measurements to interpretations of sound quality should be adjudicated.

I have no qualms with whatever stuff people like to read on their own time, whether that is the bible, the qu'ran, the teachings of Confucius or Buddha, or Amirm's ASR, but if you come knocking on my door every weekend trying to shove those teachings down my throat, are you saying i have no right to complain or protest?

Translation : If you personally don't hear any differences in DACs, and opt to get the cheapest and smallest one on the market, on the basis of measurements you have seen on ASR or wherever, then more power to you, ( I have to wonder though, what purpose measurements serve, if they have no bearing on what one hears. I still won't quarrel with you, because it is just a hobby, and everyone has the right to buy whatever pleases them).

But the fact that you do not hear differences in DACs, or see any color differences, should not give you the right to go around ridiculing and pouring scorn on those who do. It does not give you the right to act as if those who like to spend their money to get the best sound or enjoy the most luxuriant array of colors they can afford, are in some way foolish or idiotic. It is that type of proselytizing arrogance based on a bogus interpretation of measurements--measurements that one has the added arrogance to call "science"--that I personally consider to be deservedly reprehensible.

If you come trashing my $2K+ DAC, which you have never even heard, just because you think your $99 DAC is as good, or even better-sounding on the basis of some measurements you have seen on ASR, then i reserve the right not only to challenge what you think, but even not to make you feel particularly welcome, especially if the proselytizing gets to be too annoying, as they often do, all too quickly.

Speaking of annoying and arrogant proselytizing, the recent postings of @wiz2596 and his taunting of others, in the name of the modi 3 and the khadas, upon which he showers hymns of praise at the expense of all else, constitute only the most recent example, among tens of others (hundreds of others if one takes other forums and sites into account)... Yes, ASR is not merely satisfied with churning out its famous measurements and judgments, it also sends out armies of disciples and willing volunteers to troll other forums and sites. There is no other way to describe it. In the light of this type of trolling and harassment, do you still maintain that the animosity that sometimes greets their incursions or interventions has "no valid reason"?
 
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May 30, 2020 at 1:40 PM Post #10,072 of 12,300
"For no valid reason," you say? The animosity you mention, at least mine, is definitely not directed toward anyone who "reads the stuff at ASR," as you claim here. I have read some of that stuff myself despite my growing distaste. I also do not have any animosity against anyone who does not hear any differences in DACS, anymore than I harbor animosities toward "colorblind" people for not seeing colors that I can see.

My personal animosity is directed against people who do not know how to filter what they've read over there in anyway, and take the stuff like some kind of "gospel," and go around proselytizing like Amirm's disciples. They regurgitate those ideas without any discrimination without showing any personal sense of discernment whatsoever, preaching them, and pretending on the basis of what they've read there, to be "experts" of all audio technology that has been "measured" there. They behave a bit like the "Jehovah's witnesses" of Amirm's site, trashing equipment that he trashes, and praising those that his praises, and regurgitating whatever he says, I would like to say "like sheep," except that I wouldn't like to insult sheep. Seduced by the "measurements" which they automatically assimilate to "science," they have never stopped to examine the integrity of the conditions in which they're taken or ask how the validity of the big leap from those measurements to interpretations of sound quality should be adjudicated.

I have no quarrel with. whatever stuff people like to read in their on their own time, whether that is the bible, the qu'ran, the teachings of Confucius or Buddha, or Amirm's ASR, but if you come knocking on my door every weekend trying to shove those teachings down my throat, are you saying i have no right to complain or protest?

Translation : If you personally don't hear any differences in DACs, and opt to get the cheapest and smallest one on the market on the basis of measurements you have seen on ASR or wherever, then more power to you, ( I have to wonder though, what purpose measurements serve, if they have no bearing on what one hears. I still won't quarrel with you, because it is just a hobby, and everyone has the right to buy whatever pleases them).

But the fact that you do not hear differences in DACs, or see any color differences, should not give you the right to go around ridiculing and pouring scorn on those who do. It does not give your the right to act as if those who like to spend their money to get the best sound or enjoy the most luxuriant array of colors they can afford, are in some way foolish or idiotic. It is that type of proselytizing arrogance based on a bogus interpretation of measurements--measurements that one has the added arrogance to call "science"--that I personally consider to be deservedly reprehensible.

If you come trashing my $2K+ DAC, which you have never even heard, just because you think your $99 DAC is as good, or even better-sounding on the basis of some measurements you have seen on ASR, then i reserve the right not only to challenge what you think, but even not to make you feel particularly welcome, especially if the proselytizing gets to be too annoying, as they often do, all too quickly.

Speaking of annoying and arrogant proselytizing, the recent postings of @wiz2596 and his taunting of others, in the name of the modi 3 and the khadas to which he was singing hymns of praise, constitute only the most recent example, among tens of others (hundreds of others if one takes other forums and sites into account)... Yes, ASR is not simply satisfied with churning out its famous measurements and judgments, it also sends out armies of disciples and willing volunteers to troll other forums and sites. There is no other way to describe it. In the light of this type of trolling and harassment, do you still maintain that the animosity that sometimes greats their incursions have "no valid reason"?

Multi-like. I could not have written it better or more dispassionately.

My "attitude" has been sorted.
 
May 30, 2020 at 2:00 PM Post #10,073 of 12,300
Multi-like. I could not have written it better or more dispassionately.

My "attitude" has been sorted.
Gosh yes, very well written and another "multi like" from me too!
 
May 30, 2020 at 2:52 PM Post #10,075 of 12,300
"For no valid reason," you say? The animosity you mention, at least mine, is definitely not directed toward anyone who "reads the stuff at ASR," as you claim here. I have read some of that stuff myself despite my growing distaste. I also do not have any animosity against anyone who does not hear any differences in DACS, anymore than I harbor animosities toward "colorblind" people for not seeing colors that I can see.

My personal animosity is directed against people who do not know how to filter what they've read over there in anyway, and take the stuff like some kind of "gospel," and go around proselytizing like Amirm's disciples. They regurgitate those ideas without any discrimination without showing any personal sense of discernment whatsoever, preaching them, and pretending on the basis of what they've read there, to be "experts" of all audio technology that has been "measured" there. They behave a bit like the "Jehovah's witnesses" of Amirm's site, trashing equipment that he trashes, and praising those that his praises, and regurgitating whatever he says, I would like to say "like sheep," except that I wouldn't like to insult sheep. Seduced by the "measurements" which they automatically assimilate to "science," they have never stopped to examine the integrity of the conditions in which they're taken or ask how the validity of the big leap from those measurements to interpretations of sound quality should be adjudicated.

I have no quarrel with. whatever stuff people like to read in their on their own time, whether that is the bible, the qu'ran, the teachings of Confucius or Buddha, or Amirm's ASR, but if you come knocking on my door every weekend trying to shove those teachings down my throat, are you saying i have no right to complain or protest?

Translation : If you personally don't hear any differences in DACs, and opt to get the cheapest and smallest one on the market on the basis of measurements you have seen on ASR or wherever, then more power to you, ( I have to wonder though, what purpose measurements serve, if they have no bearing on what one hears. I still won't quarrel with you, because it is just a hobby, and everyone has the right to buy whatever pleases them).

But the fact that you do not hear differences in DACs, or see any color differences, should not give you the right to go around ridiculing and pouring scorn on those who do. It does not give your the right to act as if those who like to spend their money to get the best sound or enjoy the most luxuriant array of colors they can afford, are in some way foolish or idiotic. It is that type of proselytizing arrogance based on a bogus interpretation of measurements--measurements that one has the added arrogance to call "science"--that I personally consider to be deservedly reprehensible.

If you come trashing my $2K+ DAC, which you have never even heard, just because you think your $99 DAC is as good, or even better-sounding on the basis of some measurements you have seen on ASR, then i reserve the right not only to challenge what you think, but even not to make you feel particularly welcome, especially if the proselytizing gets to be too annoying, as they often do, all too quickly.

Speaking of annoying and arrogant proselytizing, the recent postings of @wiz2596 and his taunting of others, in the name of the modi 3 and the khadas to which he was singing hymns of praise, constitute only the most recent example, among tens of others (hundreds of others if one takes other forums and sites into account)... Yes, ASR is not simply satisfied with churning out its famous measurements and judgments, it also sends out armies of disciples and willing volunteers to troll other forums and sites. There is no other way to describe it. In the light of this type of trolling and harassment, do you still maintain that the animosity that sometimes greats their incursions have "no valid reason"?

Good lord, that's a big post. Ok, I've not trashed anything, I've said I posted a few weeks ago because of the nature of members posts on this specific thread. I'm glad I did, because your reply above just shows how pent up you are about this. Nobody trashes Schiit products, they measure them (note I wasn't talking about measurements at all, I was saying modern chipsets in DACs are transparent and simply just work in a tiny, often very cheap package) and if the measurements show that all is working properly, we have the choice to purchase. That's it, all this animosity and defensiveness is totally unnecessary.

Hence, returning to my post a few weeks ago, don't embarrass yourself anymore, be courteous to other people's opinions. It might make you feel better to club together in one thread and push back on anything people have to say, but it only adds fuel to those who do actually want to wind you all up for paying what you did, of which I am not one.

I wasn't trolling, I was pulling a few of you up for typing silly things and behaving like idiots.
 
May 30, 2020 at 3:37 PM Post #10,076 of 12,300
Good lord, that's a big post. Ok, I've not trashed anything, I've said I posted a few weeks ago because of the nature of members posts on this specific thread. I'm glad I did, because your reply above just shows how pent up you are about this. Nobody trashes Schiit products, they measure them (note I wasn't talking about measurements at all, I was saying modern chipsets in DACs are transparent and simply just work in a tiny, often very cheap package) and if the measurements show that all is working properly, we have the choice to purchase. That's it, all this animosity and defensiveness is totally unnecessary.

Hence, returning to my post a few weeks ago, don't embarrass yourself anymore, be courteous to other people's opinions. It might make you feel better to club together in one thread and push back on anything people have to say, but it only adds fuel to those who do actually want to wind you all up for paying what you did, of which I am not one.

I wasn't trolling, I was pulling a few of you up for typing silly things and behaving like idiots.

Do you realize you're beginning to sound very defensive yourself, not to mention, beginning to act like an immature troll by doing your best to sound arrogant and superior (just re-read your last sentence)? I wanted to explain to you that my so-called "big post" was responding to your accusation against posters in this forum for showing "definite animosity towards anyone who reads the stuff at ASR and for no valid reason."

This is you again.
Of course, I've demo'd Hugo 1, Hugo 2, Rega DAC, Arcam DACs, Audiolab MDac, obviously the portable ones I have now including a couple of Ibassos, the SMSL I use as my desktop rig into an Atom etc.

But to get back on track, as I said, I posted because I didn't like what I read, there was definite animosity towards anyone who reads the stuff at ASR and for no valid reason and quite defensive and overt posts that just showed people up.

My "big post" was meant to give you a couple of valid reasons, explaining why "apostles" and proselytizers of ASR attract the resentment they do, but your defensive response seems to show that you have missed the point I was making, or at least the essence of it, and that the effort has gone to waste. Not surprisingly, your real colors are also beginning to show with each new post (that is, if they were ever completely hidden to begin with). Do not be surprised if your posts begin getting ignored, as all trolling posts deserve to be.
 
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May 30, 2020 at 3:56 PM Post #10,077 of 12,300
Hey, there certainly was animosity, but I think we've covered that. Clarifying the rest of the nonsense you just posted, I certainly am very happy and don't get defensive, especially not about this sort of stuff. I joined HeadFi a long time ago and it's my go to forum for everything audio, I also read and post sporadically on the other forum and appreciate the differences.what I didn't appreciate was this specific thread.

I also don't have colours, the previous poster mentioned that he would like something that was the size of a matchbox that would deliver the sound he was used to, so I named a few.

As you will see, most of what I post about is specifically headphones, I'll admit I did get involved in this thread predominantly to show my displeasure at the nature of a lot of the posts, e.g. disciples, labelling into a category etc.

I'm happy to leave it here, for the most part I love this forum, I was surprised to see how things had changed somewhat and I certainly do not consider myself superior, apologies if that came across that way, I think in hindsight two weeks ago I should have copied and pasted some of the stupid comments and just named a few on here as the culprits and just said behave yourselves and been done with it.
 
May 30, 2020 at 5:40 PM Post #10,080 of 12,300
ok back to the Yggy!! Listening to the Yggy GS and comparing it to the Lumin T2. Very different presentation - both very good.

I'd describe the Yggy as 10 row maybe a wider soundstage but the bass has less definition that the Lumin.

The Lumin better bass depth and definition, better clarity of image with a closer stage that took a little getting used to.

PS the Yggy GS may be the best bargain out there in DACs today at $1599
 

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