[scottcw]

Looks like amirm isn't the only "tool."

 

[shultzee]

Sounds like you just need to hang out in the khadas tone board forum.

 

[jp11801]

guys it‘s really best to simply ignore these folks. I’ve tried multiple variants of dacs FPGA, delta sigma and multi and each can sound great. While I own and decided to keep the Yggy, the qutest and Brooklyn I had were both excellent as well.

 

[prosnowboarder]

edit very sorry wrong thread

 

[bigjim]

I'll make this quick. As you can see I joined a long time ago, I dip in and out the reviews on pretty much purely headphones, not paying too much interest in kit. However for the past year I have been reading the ASR forum and really do like the way it is so different to here. Because of Covid, I'm bored so just read this thread from the beginning and it's utterly disgraceful. I love this Forum, but lots of the messages read exactly the same, people who just don't like the fact that they paid a lot of money for something that can be replicated for a 20th of the price. They all push back, say he has an agenda etc, but all he does is measure stuff and post the findings. Yes, purchasing is emotional, but some of the posts are truly embarrassing and have shown a certain number of you up.

It's not like there aren't a host of other units from other manufacturers that have measured poorly on his equipment, which also don't get his recommendation.

Technology has caught up folks, that's all there is to it, it's not personal, you just need to realise what used to have to go into a rack and be cooled can now be the size of a matchbox.

 

[johnjen]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, as we all are.
Some of us have, shall we say, a more refined take on listening to music, which is what ALL of this is about, at least that is my opinion and why I play in this sandbox, so I can enjoy music.

Specs and numbers are fine for those who see them as the goal of their involvement in our audio hobby.

But to make unilateral pronouncements as to what is 'better' or not, which is still based upon personal choices, (ie is subjective) is to my mind just the polar opposite end of this very same 'debate'.

And while some of the technology we apply has been improved, the correlation between what we hear and the application of this technology we use to 'measure' its performance, has not really changed.
There remains a wide gap between our attempts to describe what we hear with measurements, especially in the domain of the dynamics of music playback.
Yes the static measurements we make are more exact and precise, but those simplified numbers still don't correlate very well with the experience of listening to music.
And have you noticed that ASR doesn't even really try to make this correlation?

When I first started out in this audio hobby (back in the late 50's) I too thought specs and numbers were not only important but the only means to 'know' if the gear was going to optimally deliver my music to me.
That was then, this is now, and I have since learned that such numbers are but an initial and cursory viewpoint of what is possible, and certainly not an accurate description of what will be delivered, especially when used with other gear, in a specific system, playing specific music, for me specifically.

So if you have found the path that provides you with musical satisfaction then you have reached your ideal musical playback.
And if so then why do you need to 'prove' that others are 'doing it wrong' so to speak?

Others will have different desires, goals, objectives, and motivations for pursuing this hobby.
Which means there is no single 'solution' for everyone.

And if I could claim that I had achieved this same degree of an ideal musical playback system, I would still know it wouldn't satisfy everyone.
It isn't meant to, because I built it to meet my 'desires, goals, objectives, and motivations for pursuing this hobby.'

And over the years ASR has demonstrated some 'questionable' technical and behavioral practices here and there, such that his opinions (and in my view EVERYTHING he states is opinion) holds little weight with me and many others.
All of this results in a lack of credibility and is voiced from a variety of different groups.

It would seem some who drink his flavor of the Kool-Aid, lack enough technological discernment to see the discrepancies he has incorporated into his processes.
In a word (or 2) 'confirmation bias' is his strong suit and what he continues to strive to affirm.

And I would suspect the recent resurgence of his fans here is just more of the same.

JJ

 

[gefski]

I'll make this quick. As you can see I joined a long time ago, I dip in and out the reviews on pretty much purely headphones, not paying too much interest in kit. However for the past year I have been reading the ASR forum and really do like the way it is so different to here. Because of Covid, I'm bored so just read this thread from the beginning and it's utterly disgraceful. I love this Forum, but lots of the messages read exactly the same, people who just don't like the fact that they paid a lot of money for something that can be replicated for a 20th of the price. They all push back, say he has an agenda etc, but all he does is measure stuff and post the findings. Yes, purchasing is emotional, but some of the posts are truly embarrassing and have shown a certain number of you up.

It's not like there aren't a host of other units from other manufacturers that have measured poorly on his equipment, which also don't get his recommendation.

Technology has caught up folks, that's all there is to it, it's not personal, you just need to realise what used to have to go into a rack and be cooled can now be the size of a matchbox.

Since I travel around quite a bit in the spring and summer, I would really be thrilled to find a dac the ”size of a matchbox” that would approach the timbre, texture, spatial placement of instruments and sounds, and dynamic and alive presentation that Yggy delivers in my desktop rig. I own an Audioquest Dragonfly, a brilliant (they solved the usb receiver current draw problem for portables) stick sized unit, and have spent some time with Chord’s Mojo. But they aren’t really in that ballpark for me sonically.

So I’m interested in any that you have experience with, what DACs they have been directly compared to, and the results of those comparisons (in terms of music listening).

 

[porchwizard]

I'll make this quick. As you can see I joined a long time ago, I dip in and out the reviews on pretty much purely headphones, not paying too much interest in kit. However for the past year I have been reading the ASR forum and really do like the way it is so different to here. Because of Covid, I'm bored so just read this thread from the beginning and it's utterly disgraceful. I love this Forum, but lots of the messages read exactly the same, people who just don't like the fact that they paid a lot of money for something that can be replicated for a 20th of the price. They all push back, say he has an agenda etc, but all he does is measure stuff and post the findings. Yes, purchasing is emotional, but some of the posts are truly embarrassing and have shown a certain number of you up.

It's not like there aren't a host of other units from other manufacturers that have measured poorly on his equipment, which also don't get his recommendation.

Technology has caught up folks, that's all there is to it, it's not personal, you just need to realise what used to have to go into a rack and be cooled can now be the size of a matchbox.

Thanks for sharing

 

[sahmen]

Measurement fetishists, audio objectivists and subjectivists alike, please take note .. I like what he says about "common sense,"

 

[wiz2596]

Measurement fetishists, audio objectivists and subjectivists alike, please take note .. I like what he says about "common sense,"

their $6000 bucks PerfectWave DirectStream DAC measures really bad at SINAD department by the way.

check this out:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...f-ps-audio-perfectwave-directstream-dac.9100/

how can I trust what this guy says after reading that???

 

[sahmen]

their $6000 bucks PerfectWave DirectStream DAC measures really bad at SINAD department by the way.

check this out:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...f-ps-audio-perfectwave-directstream-dac.9100/

how can I trust what this guys says after reading that???

I appreciate the response, but you shouldn't have bothered posting that link. It has been more than a year since I last visited that site. That was the last visit, out of a total of two, and I am not planning on going back there any time soon. if ever. I believe in the utility of measurements in the manufacturing process, and in the assessment of certain aspects of the technology and formal characteristics of musical content, but I am not that zealous about them (measurements) in assessing their influence on sound quality because I do not believe they determine everything or deserve to have the last say in that department.

I love the sound of certain tube amps and vinyl playback technology, even though I am aware that sometimes they measure among the worst in the industry, so I do not think you and I are taking the same approach, when it comes to this issue of measurements.

My view is that there is a lot about creativity, in both the production of audio technology, the musical signals themselves, as well as their appreciation or consumption, that cannot be captured or accounted for by "correct" measurements alone (could you, for example, try explaining with "correct" measurements the production of the dissonant and "distorted" guitar phraseologies of Hendrix's star-spangled banner, and the contradictory emotional effects it has on different listeners at different times?).

In that sense, the place of measurements themselves, if not appreciated from its own relatively limited perspective, can become another purveyor of misleading snake oils; particularly when treated like a religion, or applied and interpreted in a way that is not sufficiently discriminating. Reading your statements, I have wondered whether you ever consider the possibility that the utility of measurements you have seen might have its own limitations, and that the integrity and good faith of their application also need to be interrogated from time to time, and never taken entirely at face value. The questions you're asking seem to imply that you're taking whatever you're reading from those Audio Science review pages as if the were a kind gospel, but I do not share that view, particularly, since this is supposed to be a science, after all, a "science" in which some degree of skepticism often has a healthy role to play.

 

[wiz2596]

I appreciate the response, but you shouldn't have bothered posting that link. It has been more than a year since I last visited that site. That was the last visit, out of a total of two, and I am not planning on going back there any time soon. if ever. I believe in the utility of measurements in the manufacturing process, and in the assessment of certain aspects of the technology and formal characteristics of musical content, but I am not that zealous about them (measurements) in assessing their influence on sound quality because I do not believe they determine everything or deserve to have the last say in that department.

I love the sound of certain tube amps and vinyl playback technology, even though I am aware that sometimes they measure among the worst in the industry, so I do not think you and I are taking the same approach, when it comes to this issue of measurements.

My view is that there is a lot about creativity, in both the production of audio technology, the musical signals themselves, as well as their appreciation or consumption, that cannot be captured or accounted for by "correct" measurements alone (could you, for example, try explaining with "correct" measurements the production of the dissonant and "distorted" guitar phraseologies of Hendrix's star-spangled banner, and the contradictory emotional effects it has on different listeners at different times?).

In that sense, the place of measurements themselves, if not appreciated from its own relatively limited perspective, can become another purveyor of misleading snake oils; particularly when treated like a religion, or applied and interpreted in a way that is not sufficiently discriminating. Reading your statements, I have wondered whether you ever consider the possibility that the utility of measurements you have seen might have its own limitations, and that the integrity and good faith of their application also need to be interrogated from time to time, and never taken entirely at face value. The questions you're asking seem to imply that you're taking whatever you're reading from those Audio Science review pages as if the were a kind gospel, but I do not share that view, particularly, since this is supposed to be a science, after all, a "science" in which some degree of skepticism often has a healthy role to play.

AudioScience Review haters are usually : a) snake oil salesmen ; b) people who bought 5 000 $ DAC that are outperformed by a 100 $ chinese DAC and cannot accept that their "golden ears" may have failed them ...

I used to like schiit brand and I know this is a harsh reality but even the $99 modi 3 performs better than the yggdrasil, as an audiophile you claim you are you should care about measurements and not only your ears, they really matter in this hobby.

 

[sahmen]

ASR haters are usually : a) snake oil salesmen ; b) people who bought 5 000 $ DAC that are outperformed by a 100 $ chinese DAC and cannot accept that their "golden ears" may have failed them ...

See? That sounds terribly dogmatic right there! Your thoughts built from your visits to ASR are already made up, rigidly congealed, and inflexible, not to mention iron clad judgmental about those who do not share your view. This attitude seems like a direct translation of your abiding faith in whatever you have read from ASR. That's okay with me, but It makes me wonder why you're even bothering to have a conversation about this. Ironically, there seems to be no one here to convince or persuade, except, maybe yourself, which is weird, given how strongly anchored you already seem to be in your convictions.

Personally, I am no hater of any audio site, let alone ASR, I simply did not find their approach to this whole audio thing to be convincing, or even particularly useful for my needs, so I decided not to return there, but hating them? Nah. I do not have the time nor the energy for that, Nor do i think that they even deserve that kind of attention, to be honest with you. I can say the same for a thousand other sites on the internet, sites that are always trying to sell you one thing or the other, dishonestly or honestly. They are a dime a dozen, and operate in many diverse fields. If I wanted to make a practice of hating every site that is selling some idea I do not agree with, I'd soon have no room in my heart at all for anything else.

Wishing you a lot of luck and joy in your ASR listening, measuring, and philosophical adventures. I hope there is some actual listening (and enjoyment of listening) going on there, though, at the very least, in spite of all that measuring

 

[wiz2596]

See? That sounds terribly dogmatic right there! Your thoughts built from your visits to ASR are already made up, rigidly congealed, and inflexible, not to mention iron clad judgmental about those who do not share your view. This attitude seems like a direct translation of your abiding faith in whatever you have read from ASR. That's okay with me, but It makes me wonder why you're even bothering to have a conversation about this. Ironically, there seems to be no one here to convince or persuade, except, maybe yourself, which is weird, given how strongly anchored you already seem to be in your convictions.

Personally, I am no hater of any audio site, let alone ASR, I simply did not find their approach to this whole audio thing to be convincing, or even particularly useful for my needs, so I decided not to return there, but hating them? Nah. I do not have the time nor the energy for that, Nor do i think that they even deserve that kind of attention, to be honest with you. I can say the same for a thousand other sites on the internet, sites that are always trying to sell you one thing or the other, dishonestly or honestly. They are a dime a dozen, and operate in many diverse fields. If I wanted to make a practice of hating every site that is selling some idea I do not agree with, I'd soon have no room in my heart at all for anything else.

Wishing you a lot of luck and joy in your ASR listening, measuring, philosophical, and enjoyment l adventures. I hope there is some actual listening (and enjoyment of listening) going on there, though, at the very least

Kindly I invite you to read this review of schiit yggdrasil from audio science review, amir does explain very well about its design issues and poor measuments

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ents-and-review-of-schiit-yggdrasil-dac.2358/

 

[koven]

AudioScience Review haters are usually : a) snake oil salesmen ; b) people who bought 5 000 $ DAC that are outperformed by a 100 $ chinese DAC and cannot accept that their "golden ears" may have failed them ...

I used to like schiit brand and I know this is a harsh reality but even the $99 modi 3 performs better than the yggdrasil, as an audiophile you claim you are you should care about measurements and not only your ears, they really matter in this hobby.

Sure but the flip side of that includes folks who are not in an economic state to spend $5,000 on a DAC thus clings to anything that ostensibly dismisses the validity of more expensive topology as a [subconscious] attempt to allay themselves into believing a $100 Modi is the pinnacle of DAC engineering. Have you noticed that $5,000 DAC owners never waltz into a Modi-tier thread to diminish their owners or evangelize their own beliefs? These people simply love music and mind their own business. Ultimately they are indulging in audio within their own financial means. Why does that seem to trigger ASR zealots so much? Is your Modi only enjoyable for a couple days before you need to recharge your delusion by publicly antagonizing these people? Please try giving it a rest.