[buke9]

 
Even if the cable wasn't a variable, how would you know the difference is due to the output of the Yggdrasil rather than the way the Liquid Carbon implements it's SE/Balanced inputs and outputs?

It's suppose to be them same bal or se as per phase shifter or whatever it is called. That could be the difference but like I said it is very small difference.

 

[Stillhart]

 
Even if the cable wasn't a variable, how would you know the difference is due to the output of the Yggdrasil rather than the way the Liquid Carbon implements it's SE/Balanced inputs and outputs?

 
From testing other DAC's, obviously.  I have tested a few DAC's with both SE and Balanced into the Liquid Carbon and the GMB was the only one that exhibited a noticeable difference.  The others I've tried are the Resolution Audio Cantata and the Theta Basic II (made my Mr. Moffat as well, I believe).
 
The "phase splitter" used in the Liquid Carbon (and Liquid Gold) splits the SE signal before amplifying it so that you get much of the benefits of the balanced amp even with an SE input.  Again, I say this having tested several DAC's and only hearing a difference on the GMB.
 
To be clear, saying that the SE output is worse than the Balanced output isn't the same as saying it's "bad".  Many people use the SE and are perfectly fine with it.  But when you listen to both, you can hear the difference.  If the difference doesn't bother you, more power to you.  
 
And for the record, I have yet to run this test on the Yggy, but I will have access to one within the next few weeks and will run the test again.
 
EDIT - Glad to see you're doing well, Mike.  Wishing you a speedy recovery.  I've got another joke for you for the next time we meet.  

 
 
EDIT 2 - Oh, and I NEVER used the word "crippled".  Don't blame me for that.

 

[Khragon]

Anyone here heard Audiogd Master 11 DAC as well as LH Labs Vi DAC? How do you think Yggy compared to these 2?

I have both and find that the Vi is clear, and open sounding where as the M11 is slower a bit more liquidy with very sweet midrange.

I'm looking for a DAC with both of these the Vi clarity and M11 midrange, would Yggy be it?

 

[artur9]

NVM, the CA forum has way more on this than any rational being can take.

 

[jcx]

Spoiler: [Mod Edit: Technical stuff and not impressions -- please keep to impressions in impressions threads.

] the rationalaudiophile is likely wrong on the cause, "the glitch" of the AD5791 DAC is the wrong time scale, magnitude to give the zero crossing blip they show, and the DAC's glitches aren't limited to zero crossing - they should be filtered out by the analog reconstruction/anti-alias filter
 
the switching glitches do show indirectly in the dynamic spec, the irregular pattern of the glitches with DAC code transition limited the data sheet THD spec to -100 dB
 
part of Schiit's magic is the combination of 2 AD5791 to remove/cancel the glitch error and achieve respectable audio performance more in line with the 20 bit static accuracy of the DAC chips
 
the shown -90 dB plot could have problems with the digital sine source, it should have stated 16/24 bit and whether/what type of dither was used
 
the rationalaudiophile plot is also awesomely noise free - likely used deep averaging, thousands of cycles in synchronous sampling mode - it would be reasonable for Schiit to dismiss the zero crossing error, even if verified, as being deep in the electrical noise when viewed in a bandwidth more representative of our hearing
 
however it could be evidence that that Mike doesn't dither internally, I pointed out previously dither is expected today in digital audio practice, even when its likely inaudible
 
 
and yes, I don't own a Yggy, I'm not telling anyone how it sounds - but I have been selecting, wiring, DAC, ADC chips to computers since the 80's, 3 decades of professional level mixed signal EE practice does mean I can help interpret technical aspects that are relevant to the tech we know is being used
 
nor am I trying to preempt or get in the way of Mike or Jason, clearly they are the experts on the internals of their products - but many consumer discussions do welcome the interplay of outside/independent experts with commercial company's official positions

 

[johnjen]

snip
That said ... using Yggdrasil with  Ragnarok I find I prefer the following configurations, in descending order of preference:
 

• Yggdrasil (BAL) -> Ragnarok -> Headphones (BAL)
• Yggdrasil (BAL) -> Ragnarok -> Headphones (SE)
• Yggdrasil (SE) -> Ragnarok -> Headphones (BAL)
• Yggdrasil (SE) -> Ragnarok -> Headphones (SE)

 
I would say that these differences, small though they are (you'd need to listen back to back to hear them at all) have FAR more to do with Raganrok being operated in non-balanced mode end-to-end than anything to do with Yggdrasil.
 
snip Hope that helps.

My observations and experience is that balanced is, especially in the long haul where maintenance is seldom or not performed, 'Better' than SE.
For a variety of reasons, most of which really only become 'important' when we push the envelope of SQ.
 
IOW if your goal is to seek the best performance out of your gear and this is pursued, THEN the scales will decidedly tip in favor of the balanced approach.
 
But initially, like when you first plug in the gear and listen, there are other more significant influences at play that will 'override' the SE vs. Bal choice.
 
Just the inherent weakness of the RCA vs the XLR connector alone, in the long haul, will become more of an issue. And as an example, what is the experience of unplugging and plugging back in all of your IC's and USB and all the other connections, and the resultant changes to the SQ of the system.
 
But really, balanced, other than for pro applications (which should be a clue), is only 'important' when one is going after that last 5-10% of improvements to the systems overall SQ as a desired goal of the system we put together in the first place.
 
JJ
ps. my experience with the SE output of The Rok, regardless of input, is decidedly not in the same league as the balanced output.

 

[jfrocke]

Is there a good post that describes the sound that the Yggy goes through during break in?
 
When I first installed my new one (last Thursday) it sounded very open and resolving, but a little too bright, after a couple of hours.  The big spacious sound that everyone seems to mention was there.  Now after a few days the midrange has become a little too laid back and the huge air/space seems to have gone away.
 
Am I in some sort of middle of the break-in process that I need to get through?

 

[sheldaze]

  Is there a good post that describes the sound that the Yggy goes through during break in?
 
When I first installed my new one (last Thursday) it sounded very open and resolving, but a little too bright, after a couple of hours.  The big spacious sound that everyone seems to mention was there.  Now after a few days the midrange has become a little too laid back and the huge air/space seems to have gone away.
 
Am I in some sort of middle of the break-in process that I need to get through?

I think the audible differences vary, which is why no one has likely described it in detail over time. I would describe it as the difference between thinking about the music and simply hearing the music.
 
During the burn-in, sure it was a great DAC. I could kind of hear something metallic over there, in one song. I could picture it in my mind, probably a cymbal. It was probably struck this way, and was placed about so on the sound stage.
 
But once warmed up, there's a cymbal - plain and simple. There is no cerebral thought required - the cymbal is there! I have no choice but to hear it, as it was originally recorded. The sound is heard, loud, clear - done!
 
::
 
Once I heard the Yggdrasil, completely warmed up, I became adjusted to how it sounded. I stopped my typical cerebral digital adjustment for music, and just heard music. I had to let it cool down once, and became immediately cognitive of the change. A week later, it was back - plain and simple, as obvious as the nose on your face.

 

[artur9]

   
The only WM8740 based "DAC" I have is the AK120, which uses a dual-mono implementation of the 8740.  .., I wouldn't say it betters the Bifrost 4490, let alone Yggdrasil.  .
 

Thanks!  Inspired by you I swapped in my Uberfrost and the difference is quite startling.  The Uberfrost just seems so much more musical.

 

[landroni]

  I think the audible differences vary, which is why no one has likely described it in detail over time. I would describe it as the difference between thinking about the music and simply hearing the music.

 
During the burn-in, sure it was a great DAC. I could kind of hear something metallic over there, in one song. I could picture it in my mind, probably a cymbal. It was probably struck this way, and was placed about so on the sound stage.

 
But once warmed up, there's a cymbal - plain and simple. There is no cerebral thought required - the cymbal is there! I have no choice but to hear it, as it was originally recorded. The sound is heard, loud, clear - done!

 
::

 
Once I heard the Yggdrasil, completely warmed up, I became adjusted to how it sounded. I stopped my typical cerebral digital adjustment for music, and just heard music. I had to let it cool down once, and became immediately cognitive of the change. A week later, it was back - plain and simple, as obvious as the nose on your face.

This is a similar account of Yggy's realism, whereas it makes a piano sound like a piano:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/766347/schiit-yggdrasil-impressions-thread/2280#post_12493561

 

[sheldaze]

This is a similar account of Yggy's realism, whereas it makes a piano sound like a piano:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/766347/schiit-yggdrasil-impressions-thread/2280#post_12493561

And I do play piano - just incredible on Yggdrasil 

 

 

[bearFNF]

This is a similar account of Yggy's realism, whereas it makes a piano sound like a piano:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/766347/schiit-yggdrasil-impressions-thread/2280#post_12493561

And I do play piano - just incredible on Yggdrasil   

Any suggestions for some upbeat classical or otherwise piano?

 

[sheldaze]

Any suggestions for some upbeat classical or otherwise piano?

I'll have to go and pull a couple of discs off the shelf - yes, I'm still a disc spinner 

I will post back!

 

[Stillhart]

Any suggestions for some upbeat classical or otherwise piano?

 
Try some Hiromi!  <3

 

[bearFNF]

Try some Hiromi!  <3

Will do.

My mom just bought a Charles Walter piano and is looking for some non-depressing music to play. She's not much of a Jazz fan but I'll check it out and see if there is anything there she might like. It's for me to listen to, also though.