Schiit Yggdrasil Impressions thread
Mar 8, 2016 at 7:29 PM Post #2,071 of 12,205
 



It’s true that the transducer normally affect the overall sound the most in an audio setup. But if you are looking for a non-digital sound from a digital player then a change to a good DAC is the only real solution IMO. No matter how good the headphone, speakers or amp are, if the DAC sound artificial and digital that’s how the music going to sound even with the best speakers.
I agree!
If the recreation of the analog signal is 'flawed' or 'incorrect' with respect to the original signal, there is virtually nothing that can be done to 'correct' this situation, short of replacing the dac with a 'Better' unit.

And as the SQ of the source improves the rest of the gear can scale all the better because the inner details and definition are there to begin with and so it is much easier to determine if the rest of the system is up to the task, let alone if changes are introduced into the system.

Think of it as the trickle down effect for audio.

JJ
 
Mar 8, 2016 at 9:14 PM Post #2,072 of 12,205
What digital correction device are you looking at? I was looking at the minidsp. You will lose the bit perfect since it will convert to 24/96. Someone on a different thread was using a minidsp to cut up the frequency to different drivers. He thought it sounded awesome.
 
Mar 8, 2016 at 9:53 PM Post #2,073 of 12,205
  Does anyone know if this DAC would be much better than the one found in my Simaudio Moon Neo 430HAD?


Drayton.
Hi.. The DAC used in the 430 is the D3 card.  Very similar to what's used in the HAD 230. Not the same DAC used in the two neo streamers, the 280 D and 380 D. In my opinion the 380D streaming Dac is very very good and quite a bit smoother and detail capable than the 280D.   I have a Moon 280 HAD in my home office set up. I really like it powering a pair of audio engine A5's and my half dozen collection of $300 headphones. ( Beyer 990's 800's, AKF 701/ AKG 240s/ AQ nighthawks) oops, so ok may 5 headphones. It's an OK DAC, not great,, I really like the musicality of that headphone amp. You amp is superb. Pricy but superb and a very cool front panel. As its DAC is very similar to whats in the HAD 230 I can tell you after having the two ( HAD 230 and Yaggi) to compare, there really no comparison. Sorry to say that.  Not to say it isn't a really good experience with your marvellous amp, but adding another DAC even the Gumby MB will be worlds ahead. 
I have a Yaggi in my main room set up powering a Mjolnir 2 with tubes.   Your amp will kick but over the Mjolnir2, but the Mjolnir really benefits from a better DAC my the system. I haven't had a chance to take the Moon 430 home but I have listened in the store for a bit.  I'm a big fan of the Moon products. I like the sound signature a lot. 
Hope that helps a bit.
 
Mar 8, 2016 at 11:30 PM Post #2,074 of 12,205
What digital correction device are you looking at? I was looking at the minidsp. You will lose the bit perfect since it will convert to 24/96. Someone on a different thread was using a minidsp to cut up the frequency to different drivers. He thought it sounded awesome.


I had a minidsp and it failed and almost took 2 computers' USB with it so ... not a minidsp :wink: .   I do understand that they work well for most.
 
I came across a Lyngdorf DP-1 that does crossover functions and RoomPerfect room correction on the digital input with a digital out that can be the high-passed signal.  So all digital but limited to 96/24.  Couldn't resist as it seemed exactly what I was looking for.
 
It seems to come with Wolfson DACs, which I've liked in the past, but was wondering if that device and external DACs would play nicely together.
 
Mar 9, 2016 at 6:34 AM Post #2,075 of 12,205
I have used room correction devices in the past - in some cases to good effect.
What I discovered over time though (especially true as I progressed through better DAC's) is that it's generally more prudent to deal with room issues head on instead of relying on a piece of hardware to make the corrections for you.
 
The less you have in the signal path the better IMO. 
 
 
The only time I advocate the use of room correction is for multi-channel or really-really difficult stereo setups.
 
Mar 9, 2016 at 7:39 AM Post #2,076 of 12,205
  The only time I advocate the use of room correction is for multi-channel or really-really difficult stereo setups.


I haven't had either good or bad experiences with room correction.  Mostly it's been meh.
 
I'm just wondering if such a DSP would do some violence to the signal that would interfere with the Yggy's magic.
 
Mar 9, 2016 at 12:35 PM Post #2,077 of 12,205
In my experience, unless the converters are top notch quality (at least as good or better than what's in the DAC) then you may loose some overall transparency.
 
Only way to know for sure is to try - and make sure you can return the room correcting DSP, just in case it doesn't work out for you.
 
It's one of those "do the benefits outweigh the potential negatives" kind of situation.
 
Mar 9, 2016 at 4:15 PM Post #2,078 of 12,205
 
Moffat BassTM isn't really a matter of volume of heft, although that does have something to do with it. It's matter of how the bass sort of punches and propagates toward you (especially with speakers) and how it stops on a dime, and how textures and pitch differentiation can be heard. It appears the staging aspects have quite a bit to do with this. Moffat Bass is in opposition to PCM1704 or to a lesser extent UltraAnalog bass, which tends to be syrupy and ill-defined; or Sabre bass which is thin, limp-[redacted], and lacking pitch differentiation.

The more I listen to my Yggy, the more I find this description incredibly accurate 
redface.gif


Ali
 
Mar 10, 2016 at 8:18 AM Post #2,079 of 12,205
  In my experience, unless the converters are top notch quality (at least as good or better than what's in the DAC) then you may loose some overall transparency.
 
Only way to know for sure is to try - and make sure you can return the room correcting DSP, just in case it doesn't work out for you.
 

There wouldn't be any converters in the path.  It would be digital in via SPDIF and digital out as well.  So the only DAC in the path would be the Yggy.  That's what attracted me to the device, no ADC which I have experienced subtracting a little transparency.
 
Mar 10, 2016 at 6:51 PM Post #2,080 of 12,205
Cheap Hi-Fi Streaming/Casting Fun with Yggy
I have tons of music on my computer but until recently I did not have a good way to play it all on the Yggy. BEWARE: this method may cause you to feel guilty (pleasure) and audio nirvana.
What you need:
  1. Chromecast Audio, $35. See http://www.head-fi.org/t/782899/chromecast-audio-can-anyone-comment-on-sound-quality
  2. Proper connection to Yggy, $8: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00T8HWUVS?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00
  3. Your current phone and/or computer to act as remote control / interface to music (choose music service, playlist, pause, skip, etc.)
  4. Chromecast App for phone, computer, etc. (including i-pads and i-etc.)..., $Free.
    1. Allows you to play Google Play Music, which can include 50,000 of your own songs saved to the cloud in hi-fi.
    2. Also allows Pandora, Podcast Addict, etc., (any and all the audio/music "casting" Apps and subscriptions).
    3. Also allows streaming of FLAC files, uncompressed, from my computer via wifi, using Plex (one time fee for android app, $4.99)
    4. Also NOTE (little known fact): Select "Cast screen" to cast music/audio from Apps that don't yet support casting, such as Amazonmusic..

HAVE FUN !!!
 
Right now listening to Bob Dylan: John Wesley Harding.  Schiit Yggy is lit up 48 x2 and sounds sublime!
 
Mar 10, 2016 at 9:37 PM Post #2,081 of 12,205
How exactly are you connecting the Chromecast to your Yggy? Where in the chain are you putting it? 
 
Mar 10, 2016 at 10:42 PM Post #2,082 of 12,205
Mar 11, 2016 at 12:29 AM Post #2,083 of 12,205
  Power cord to Chromecast and from there use the toslink/optical cable (below) from the Chromecast toslink output to the optical input on Yggy. That's it.
  1. Proper connection to Yggy, $8: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00T8HWUVS?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00


 
Gold plated connectors on an optical cable?  That's pretty funny!

I'm not sure about that being a "proper" connection to Yggdrasil; that cable is only specced to work with a source up to 24 bit/48 Khz, which is only half what the Chromecast is capable of (and a quarter that of which Yggdrasil can handle).  Maybe it works at sample higher rates, maybe you don't use them, but it's hardly a "proper" match for such a capable DAC.
 
If you want something that matches what the optical input of the Yggy is capable of then you want something like this.
 
Mar 11, 2016 at 12:54 AM Post #2,084 of 12,205
   
Gold plated connectors on an optical cable?  That's pretty funny!

I'm not sure about that being a "proper" connection to Yggdrasil; that cable is only specced to work with a source up to 24 bit/48 Khz, which is only half what the Chromecast is capable of (and a quarter that of which Yggdrasil can handle).  Maybe it works at sample higher rates, maybe you don't use them, but it's hardly a "proper" match for such a capable DAC.
 
If you want something that matches what the optical input of the Yggy is capable of then you want something like this.

Yes, marketing is often funny. I don't know where you find the cable spec of 24/48 though it might be right. Maybe I'll look for a better match. I could always try the $15 cable direct from google with no marketing claims at all: https://store.google.com/product/optical_cable_chromecast_audio.  What I do know is that the Yggy is happily playing without the "get better gear" light coming on and so far it's lit up at 44x1 and 48x1 when I've looked. Oh, and it's fun and sounds great. In my opinion. 
 
Mar 11, 2016 at 1:26 AM Post #2,085 of 12,205
  Yes, marketing is often funny. I don't know where you find the cable spec of 24/48 though it might be right. Maybe I'll look for a better match. I could always try the $15 cable direct from google with no marketing claims at all: https://store.google.com/product/optical_cable_chromecast_audio.  What I do know is that the Yggy is happily playing without the "get better gear" light coming on and so far it's lit up at 44x1 and 48x1 when I've looked. Oh, and it's fun and sounds great. In my opinion. 


So, the first thing to say is that, if you're happy with it, then that's all that you should be concerned about.  I only commented at all because if that cable only meets (and doesn't exceed) its spec, then it's not capable of delivering data at rates that Yggdrasil is cable of handling.
 
To answer your question: 
 
The cable you linked to specifies a bandwidth of 6 MHz right in the marketing copy.  Since marketeers are not well known for under-selling their products, lets be generous and assume they've actually tested the cable to 6 MHz and it passed in worst-case scenarios (if it had undergone and passed tests at, say, 11 MHz, which is what you'd need for 24/88.2, I would assume they'd make that higher claim instead).
 
The S/PDIF protocol, which is common to all TOSLINK implementations, uses a bi-phase clock - which means, in essence, two "ticks" are required for each transmitted "bit" of data.  For each sample of data, there's a 32-bit (32 time slot) block of data per channel.  This can carry 16-24 bits of audio-sample data (the raw spec is for up to 20-bits, some extensions permit it to use up to 24-bits), per block.  Either way, stereo audio requires 64-bits of data, or 128 clock-pulses, per sample.
 
Multiply the 128 pulses per sample by your sampling frequency and that gets you to the required bandwidth (in MHz) of your cable.  Which, in this case, yields: 128 x 48,000 = 6,144,000 Hz.  Or, rounding a little, about 6 MHz.
 
Things like bend radius, length, the quality of the fiber (in terms of internal reflections) and, especially, the quality of the polish on the cable ends, might affect how a SPECIFIC cable operates, and as a result some cables, in some situations, might perform better, but in general the marketeers aren't going to claim it does less than it really does.
 
In short ... the people selling the cable aren't even attempting to claim it works beyond 24/48, so if it does it's a bonus.  It may not be relevant to some people, but it's certainly not even claiming to be capable of delivering what Chromecast is capable of, let alone reaching Yggdrasil's limits. 
 

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