[mikoss]

BTW, those looking to swap out the fuse in their Yggy will want to break out their multimeter to check for proper orientation of the fuse.
I know some don't believe in fuse direction but most audio fuses really do seem to have an audible direction to them and have some way of visually determining the direction on them.

The stock fuse will measure exactly identically the same in either orientation. As for after market fuses, I have no idea how you'd use a multimeter to obtain a different reading. For all intents and purposes, an electrical fuse should measure near zero ohms resistance in either direction.

 

[Jamiee]

Multimeter is used to determine current flow from the IC socket to the fuse holder.
I'm by far not the only one to notice that aftermarket audio fuses tend to be directional.

All I can say is to try both orientations, if you don't hear a difference then cool

 

[gefski]

I'm no EE major, but in the U.S. doesn't AC change direction 60 times a second?

Just asking, I've got no axe to grind on this topic.

 

[AudioBear]

I have for years been trying to figure out a mechanism or physical explanation for how this could happen.  I'm no EE either but your point about 60 cycle alternating current has always stumped me for an answer.
 
A fuse, A fuse, A fuse by any other name should surely smell as sweet....
 
Could one of you who actually hears a difference consistently explain to us how this happens?  It's not that I don't believe that you hear the difference, it's that I can't see how it could happen.  Especially since the first thing that happens to AC is it gets converted to DC and charges up some capacitors.  etc.

 

[mikoss]

I still don't understand What you're going to measure with a multimeter. You can check the resistance of the fuse, the voltage, and with an ammeter, you can measure how much current is going through the fuse. Again, nothing to do with the orientation of the fuse whatsoever. Also, yes... alternating current; changing all the time... Passing through your fuse in both directions. Not discounting that you hear a difference, just wanted to know the magic you're performing using a multimeter to determine how to orient the fuse.

 

[TheAttorney]

  This guy is crazy!!! He is suggesting "By-Passing" the main fuse!!! Unbelievable!!! 

 
http://www.tweakaudio.com/EVS-2/Schiit_mod.html

Yes he is crazy, but his point is that he's never had a fuse blow on any low power component he's ever owned over many years (or something like that). So he's prepared take that tiny risk. Personally, I just don't feel that lucky, so I'd never recommend that stance. Bad luck can happen irrespective of whether you're expecting it or not.
 
I also have noticed fuse directionality, even when AC changes direction 50 or 60 times a second. Yes, it's completely crazy.
 
I guess the point of the multimeter is to determine which is the live end of the fuse holder. It may be AC, but only one end is "live", i.e. generating the power.

 

[johnjen]

I'm no EE major, but in the U.S. doesn't AC change direction 60 times a second?

Just asking, I've got no axe to grind on this topic.

Yes the voltage does change polarity but the direction the energy moves remains the same, i.e., into the device.

It’s the flow of current that is the point of all this.
And it's this flow of current that a fuse or a circuit breaker 'reacts' to, not the changing polarity of the voltage.

JJ

 

[johnjen]

I still don't understand What you're going to measure with a multimeter. You can check the resistance of the fuse, the voltage, and with an ammeter, you can measure how much current is going through the fuse. Again, nothing to do with the orientation of the fuse whatsoever. Also, yes... alternating current; changing all the time... Passing through your fuse in both directions. Not discounting that you hear a difference, just wanted to know the magic you're performing using a multimeter to determine how to orient the fuse.

The DVM (digital volt meter) is used to determine which end of the fuse holder is the input side (from the ac source) and which end is the load side (the rest of the power supply).

This is used to help 'know' which end of the fuse to insert into the fuse holder to orient it 'properly'.

Another method is to insert the fuse and listen for ≈ 1-2 hrs, then reverse the fuse and listen again for 1-2 hrs.

One fuse position should be noticably better.

JJ

 

[AudioBear]

OK, good enough.  What electrical parameter of a fuse is different in one direction versus another?  There has to be a real world physical explanation for the observation.  A fuse is just a conductor (or low ohm resistor if you prefer) that fries with a known time constant itself if too much current (actually I suppose that should be power as calculated from I squared R) passes through it.  Unlike diodes and transistors they are supposed to be bidirectional by design--many are just a thin wire.  Is the fuse acting like a more complex component than a wire?  If so we should be able to measure some parameter that is different in one direction or another.  Help me understand this.
 
Is the directional fuse an analog of the directional wire?
 
To return to modifying Yggy or any other piece of gear, the fuse is there for a reason but it is true that with any kind of luck you will never blow a fuse.  Blowing a fuse is often a sign of some component shorting out or failing so you're already going to be paying for  repair when one blows (sometimes). There are other protections built into the power system like a circuit breaker and for most audiophile gear set-ups, a power device of some kind that is supposed to protect from spikes and/or clean up the power that might also act like a breaker or fuse.  The fuse is supposed to blow before you fry more expensive components but we all know that isn't always the case.  All of that said it's just asking for trouble to remove a fuse.  The mind boggles at the thought.  If you do remove the fuse, make sure you smoke in bed.

 

[johnjen]

snip

Could one of you who actually hears a difference consistently explain to us how this happens?  It's not that I don't believe that you hear the difference, it's that I can't see how it could happen.  Especially since the first thing that happens to AC is it gets converted to DC and charges up some capacitors.  etc.

When I first heard that fuses made a difference I was like, r i g h t ?!.
And until I tried it, I was skeptical too.

Really the only way to know if this helps is to try it for yourself and see.
Most of the better fuses offer a return for credit or similar policy.
I don't know of anyone who has returned a tweako fuse, but I figure the probability is that someone has.

As for an explanation on how a lowely fuse can make ANY difference, well the way I see it is…
I call this phenomonon a 'choke point' where all of the signal and/or energy and/or related information passes thru a single point. And a fuse certainly qualifies, as do power cables and interconnects and…

My point here is that a fuses job is to limit the current flow that feeds a device in case of catastrophic failure so that it doesn't completely self immolate itself.
This is double edged sword in that while protecting the downstream electronics it also can (and does) limit the ability to provide ALL of the power the circuit wants when and as it needs it.

Tweako fuses limit this power flow less than 'normal' fuses.

And to be clear we are talking about very small amounts of limitation, but since we do hear any difference, at all, tells me that we are approaching the resolution of the systems ability to not change the audio signal in any way.

And that a fuse can make an audible difference at all, is an example of the resolution of our systems.

JJ

 

[Eee Pee]

Crazy talk. Learn how power supplies work then rethink your fuse directional stuff.

Oh, ymmv, IMO, etc.

 

[johnjen]

OK, good enough.  What electrical parameter of a fuse is different in one direction versus another?  There has to be a real world physical explanation for the observation.  A fuse is just a conductor (or low ohm resistor if you prefer) that fries with a known time constant itself if too much current (actually I suppose that should be power as calculated from I squared R) passes through it.  Unlike diodes and transistors they are supposed to be bidirectional by design--many are just a thin wire.  Is the fuse acting like a more complex component than a wire?  If so we should be able to measure some parameter that is different in one direction or another.  Help me understand this.

Is the directional fuse an analog of the directional wire?
snip

I don't know why a fuse should or even could be polarized.
It isn't merely a wire, depending upon what type of fuse it is (slow-blow or fast acting), even so the designs of 'regular fuses' don't seem to exhibit this polarity behavior.

That tweako fuses do change the SQ at all based upon their orientation would seem to indicate that during their manufacture they are polarized, some how.
And I only know a scant amount about the process used to 'condition' the fuses I prefer (Synergistic).
And from what I have inferred, the tesla coil used does have a directional component to this conditioning process.
And my guess is, it's this conditioning that is responsible for the polarity of the fuse.

And I doubt that synergistic would be willing to explain, in any greater detail other than what they have already written.

But coming to an understanding of how and why, takes a back seat to the benefits that are gained, at least for me.


JJ

 

[Eee Pee]

It isn't merely a wire, 

 
Yes it is.
 

 Its essential component is a metal wire or strip that melts when too much current flows through it, interrupting the circuit that it connects.

 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuse_(electrical)

 

[HemiSam]

Jaimee,
 
Any value in reinstalling your drivers for grins to see if that helps.  I've been following your woes and can't help, but wonder if it isn't a software/operating system issue given what happened with the Win10 you were/are using.
 
I'm no blind Schitt fanboy so I have no problem believing you have a unit that has issues.  Just thinking through a possible solution for you that doesn't involve you shipping the unit back.
 
Any chance of anything Apple laying around that you could pipe music with to the Ygg?
 
Hope you get it all worked out.
 
HS

 

[AudioBear]

 

As for an explanation on how a lowely fuse can make ANY difference, well the way I see it is…
I call this phenomonon a 'choke point' where all of the signal and/or energy and/or related information passes thru a single point. And a fuse certainly qualifies, as do power cables and interconnects and…

My point here is that a fuses job is to limit the current flow that feeds a device in case of catastrophic failure so that it doesn't completely self immolate itself.
This is double edged sword in that while protecting the downstream electronics it also can (and does) limit the ability to provide ALL of the power the circuit wants when and as it needs it.

Tweako fuses limit this power flow less than 'normal' fuses.

And to be clear we are talking about very small amounts of limitation, but since we do hear any difference, at all, tells me that we are approaching the resolution of the systems ability to not change the audio signal in any way.

And that a fuse can make an audible difference at all, is an example of the resolution of our systems.

JJ

 
There are many "choke" points in the electronics such as the power supply which provides DC power to all the boards that are much more restrictive than the fuse. The PS converts a small fraction of what a typical household wall outlet can supply through a power cord.  The total power drawn at max output by DACs is way below what causes the fuse to blow.  [note: I didn't look back but I'll wager the stated power consumption of the Yggy is way below the rating on the fuse].  It takes far more current to blow the fuse than is used in normal operation of a DAC. There is just no way that a fuse can starve your DAC of power by choking it.  What makes fuse blow is a failure of a component or a short that dramatically increases power being supplied.  There is no need for a fuse to limit anything to protect it.  As a matter of fact, one way of looking at a fuse is that it does not limit power at all, it just fails when too much power is going through it.  And whether a fuse is a more complicated slow blow, or just a wire, the way they act electrically is like a wire with a small enough diameter that a specified amount of power will melt them.   The only physical measurements that matter are printed on the fuse.
 
I am not trying to be disagreeable.  I just don't think it's wise to mess with fuses. Personally I wouldn't go into the case until it's off warranty and I will usually take anything apart.  We may also have another difference in philosophy here.  I figure if the designer knows what he is doing he won't put in a fuse that limits his design.  I just have to believe that Mike Moffatt is smart enough to not allow Yggy to be limited by its fuse or power cord.  If I wasn't satisfied with Yggy, I'd find another DAC.  But reading this thread it seems most people are fairly satisfied that it's exceptionally good at its price point. 
 
I guess I am just not a tweeker.  I know that's part of the hobby for others.  Go ahead, tweek away if it makes you happy.  Who am I to deny a fellow forum member their simple pleasures.  Just be careful and don't burn anything up.