[DoubleIPA]

The Oppo UDP-205 has a remote and volume control. Yes, it's a universal disc player too, but it has a high quality audio section. Now in saying that, I firmly believe in a preamp.

 

[alpovs]

Well, buy a preamp then. Schiit makes preamps.

 

[alpovs]

Any kind of volume control in a DAC unit is a form of preamp. Digital or Analog.

It's getting hard to find them without these days.

The volume control is in the preamp, not the DAC. Yggdrasil is a DAC without preamp. As I said, buy a preamp for it. Schiit makes preamps. And they have a philosophy not to make combo units with a few exceptions.

 

[DrTone]

The volume control is in the preamp, not the DAC. Yggdrasil is a DAC without preamp. As I said, buy a preamp for it. Schiit makes preamps. And they have a philosophy not to make combo units with a few exceptions.

Are you just repeating what I said? Is this one of those "Someone is wrong on the internet" moments?

PS) I wasn't the person wanting the volume control.

 

[ToTo Man]

Its one reason the Polarity button (like the Yggy offers) is essential. Listening in reverse polarity can cause some to miss what a good speaker setup will offer.

Perhaps I misunderstand, but your post implies that headphones are not affected by polarity the same way speakers are. Why would that be?

 

[bfreedma]

OK. The Wyred4Sound DAC-2v2 has a built-in preamp. From its description: "With its built-in volume control functionality, the DAC-2v2 allows audiophiles with 100% digital systems to completely eliminate the need for a pre-amp, reducing signal processing and increasing transparency. Of course, the preamp section is fully defeatable for those with preamps that they prefer to use."

A built-in preamp is different from volume control. You should be asking for a built-in preamp then.

You asked about DACs with volume controls. I listed a number of them including the W4S which is definitely a DAC. If you specifically wanted DACs with volume control but not including a pre-amp, then ask more specifically. That said, unless we are going to play semantics, there are a significant number of DACs with remote volume control.

 

[bfreedma]

OK. The Wyred4Sound DAC-2v2 has a built-in preamp. From its description: "With its built-in volume control functionality, the DAC-2v2 allows audiophiles with 100% digital systems to completely eliminate the need for a pre-amp, reducing signal processing and increasing transparency. Of course, the preamp section is fully defeatable for those with preamps that they prefer to use."

A built-in preamp is different from volume control. You should be asking for a built-in preamp then.

Are you just repeating what I said? Is this one of those "Someone is wrong on the internet" moments?

PS) I wasn't the person wanting the volume control.

@alpovs - you were the poster asking about volume controls on DACS. Not sure why you think two responders should be “asking for a built in pre-amps” when answering your question.

 

[mourip]

Perhaps I misunderstand, but your post implies that headphones are not affected by polarity the same way speakers are. Why would that be?

There are lots. I have owned a Wyred4Sound DAC2 DSD SE and an Auralic Vega. Both had remote volume control and the W4S had a toggle on the remote for phase. Berkeley Audio has their Alpha Reference that has a remote also.

Usually these have a high output that is enough to drive an amp directly. Having said that I prefer a preamp after the DAC as it seems to improve dynamics. I also seldom use the phase button on my Yggy, partially from laziness

 

[alpovs]

I wish the Yggy had a remote volume control that also included a toggle for polarity. I jump between recordings a lot and so appreciate a remote.

@alpovs - you were the poster asking about volume controls on DACS. Not sure why you think two responders should be “asking for a built in pre-amps” when answering your question.

No, @mourip was asking for a volume control. I was arguing that DACs don't and shouldn't have volume control. After I was told that there are many examples of DACs with volume control, I asked for examples. All examples I was given were of combo units DAC+amp/preamp.

Yggdrasil is a pure DAC. It shouldn't have a volume control. I am always surprised when people ask for it. Now I understand that they are confusing DACs with combo units because they never had a pure DAC. And I never had a combo unit.

 

[alpovs]

That said, unless we are going to play semantics, there are a significant number of DACs with remote volume control.

Semantics is very important in electronics and engineering in general. There are a significant number of combo units (DAC + amp/preamp) with volume control. But I am not aware of pure DACs (like Yggdrasil) with volume control.

 

[bfreedma]

No, @mourip was asking for a volume control. I was arguing that DACs don't and shouldn't have volume control. After I was told that there are many examples of DACs with volume control, I asked for examples. All examples I was given were of combo units DAC+amp/preamp.

Yggdrasil is a pure DAC. It shouldn't have a volume control. I am always surprised when people ask for it. Now I understand that they are confusing DACs with combo units because they never had pure DACs. And I never had a combo unit.

The Yggdrasil has connections for various data interfaces. Does that make it a DAC/USB/SPDIF/AES/Coax combo box? Wouldn’t your “pure DAC” separate those into an “interface box” and then move the power elements into a separate “transformer box”....

Just trying to understand why you would object to a volume control acting as part of a pre-amp in a DAC but not the many other supporting components that aren’t absolutely core to DAC functionality.

To be clear, I’m not asking Schiit to add a volume control to the Yggdrasil.

 

[mourip]

I think that there is confusion about what I preamp is or is not. There are several kinds of preamps: transformer based that may have some gain, passive that may be just a pot, and active that have active electronic gain.

DACs with a volume control usually have enough voltage output and current drive to equal a "preamp" otherwise they would not offer a volume control. It is just a product decision. Some folks like to skip the preamp especially if they just have a single digital source so they are attracted to a DAC that offers a volume control.

Signing off on this topic now. Let's go back to discussing the new Yggy boards. Any fresh news or reviews?

 

[5genez]

As I mainly listen to music that has been recorded in the studio and comprised of multitracks, I'm not sure how helpful Yggy's polarity switch will be, since it's very unlikely that all of the multitracks in a given recording will have been recorded in the same polarity. Therefore reversing the polarity will make the incorrect polarity multitracks correct but will also consequently make the correct polarity multitracks incorrect. In these instances, what are the most important instruments to have in correct polarity? I presume it's more important for instruments that have high impulse/transients like percussion and less important for strings and vocals etc?

Now you know why you might find a "polarity" switch on some recording hardware and software. The ideal is to make a recording with everyone in the same polarity. Some products may substitute the word "phase" but it means the same thing.

Studio recordings I try to avoid. I love live recordings with everyone together playing in real time. I notice finding the correct polarity gives impact like real music. Reverse polarity to me is "shy" music. It holds back and pulls away.

 

[5genez]

They are a dime a dozen, here are the last 3 I've had.

Ayre Codex
Resonessence Mirus Pro
Moon 230HAD

The Yggy is the first I've had in a long time that didn't have some type of preamp in it digital or analog.

From what I understand... Putting an analog preamp in the same box with digital equipment can cause problems with the noise generated by digital DACs. It would take very effective shielding to pull it off.

 

[alpovs]

The Yggdrasil has connections for various data interfaces. Does that make it a DAC/USB/SPDIF/AES/Coax combo box? Wouldn’t your “pure DAC” separate those into an “interface box” and then move the power elements into a separate “transformer box”....

Just trying to understand why you would object to a volume control acting as part of a pre-amp in a DAC but not the many other supporting components that aren’t absolutely core to DAC functionality.

To be clear, I’m not asking Schiit to add a volume control to the Yggdrasil.

DAC = Digital to Analog Converter. Yggdrasil inputs a digital signal from USB/SPDIF/AES/Coax and outputs an analog signal to RCA/XLR. It's a pure DAC, no extras. All those components are absolutely core to the DAC functionality.

There is a branch of Schiit products called Preamps & Controls. There one can have something with volume and remote controls. I am not interested in those and I am very glad that Schiit didn't build in any of those into the Yggdrasil. I like Schiit's philosophy not to build combo units.