[5genez]

One of the reasons many people purchased the Yggdrasil was because it was upgradeable..

My reason was because of the over the top reviews as to how it sounds. I usually do not pay much heed to such reviews.

But, when I read this one?

Schiit Audio Yggdrasil DAC
By Any Other Name
by Robert Harley | Jun 05th, 2017

Listening

Although Moffatt warned me that the Yggy wouldn’t sound good right out of the box, I gave it a quick listen anyway after an hour of warm-up. He was right; the Yggy was hard, bright, forward, and flat. I checked in with it a couple of times over the next week and heard it improving somewhat, but it was still disappointing. I decided to let it sit in my rack, powered up, for a full month before revisiting it.

When I returned to the Yggy I discovered a DAC that wasn’t superb. It wasn’t even good. And it certainly wasn’t “good for the money.” What I discovered, to my amazement, was a DAC that was stunningly great, period. Price aside, the Yggy turned out to be a world-class contender in the same league as cost-no-object digital-to-analog converters—and I’ve heard some good ones. How could this be? http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/schiit-audio-yggdrasil-dac/?page=2​

According to Schiit now? I fell for the marketing kinship syndrome?

Now, Schiit is telling us it does not sound as good as it should. Marketing again?

 

[bfreedma]

I think the initial negative reaction is due to the cost of the upgrade at $550. It is further compounded by the fact Schiit has not published adequate technical information and measurements about the new analog board and also because the $150 Gen 5 USB upgrade was just announced. I can empathize with Yggdrasil owners facing the steep $700 proposition especially in the absence of measurements and technical details that explain the value of the upgrade. That said, I commend Schiit for keeping their promise of offering upgrades to the Yggdrasil and not completely making the units "obsolete" but they should have done a better job with launching the upgrade.

Theoretically, I agree, but in actual practice, do you think Schiit posting more specs would have actually changed the whining about wanting "free upgrades for early adopters" or "a discount for existing customers"? Same thing repeats itself on head-fi.

Those of us waiting on technical specs probably aren't the owner's group already looking for their original box and enough packing tape to safely get it back to Schiit today.....

Frankly, I think Schiit played it smart by installing the new boards for a few months before the official announcement to avoid someone purchasing "yesterday" and not getting the latest revision. The cutoff has to be somewhere though. My unit is from 8/17, so was lucky enough to get Gen5 but missed the new analog boards. C'est la vie.

 

[bfreedma]

My reason was because of the over the top reviews as to how it sounds. I usually do not pay much heed to such reviews.

But, when I read this one?

Schiit Audio Yggdrasil DAC
By Any Other Name
by Robert Harley | Jun 05th, 2017

Listening

Although Moffatt warned me that the Yggy wouldn’t sound good right out of the box, I gave it a quick listen anyway after an hour of warm-up. He was right; the Yggy was hard, bright, forward, and flat. I checked in with it a couple of times over the next week and heard it improving somewhat, but it was still disappointing. I decided to let it sit in my rack, powered up, for a full month before revisiting it.

When I returned to the Yggy I discovered a DAC that wasn’t superb. It wasn’t even good. And it certainly wasn’t “good for the money.” What I discovered, to my amazement, was a DAC that was stunningly great, period. Price aside, the Yggy turned out to be a world-class contender in the same league as cost-no-object digital-to-analog converters—and I’ve heard some good ones. How could this be? http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/schiit-audio-yggdrasil-dac/?page=2​

According to Schiit now? I fell for the marketing kinship syndrome?

Now, Schiit is telling us it does not sound as good as it should. Marketing again?

No, Schiit isn't saying it doesn't sound as good as it could - it sounded the best it could when you purchased it. Now they have improvements. Just like most any other company except in this case, you don't have to replace the whole unit, you can have it upgraded for about 20% of a new unit.

Honestly, you should sell it and move on to another manufacturer. You don't like their policy regarding user serviceable parts, their support responsiveness, or their upgrade policy. If I felt that way about a product and company, I would move on....

 

[gdhal]

Who got a A board from an october shipment?

My condolences...
Was it schiit themselves who said that units being shipped out in october have had the new board? If so, contacting customer support could be worth a shot...

I'm thinking **YOU** are associated with Schiit. So by all means, if so, please let me (and the entire forum) know the answer to the following questions. I am in process of communication with Schiit, who are as of this writing evading a direct answer.

• Are Yggdrasil's that were shipped in October 2017 entitled to have received the "B" analog board at that time, included in their original purchase price?
• If yes to the aforementioned question and said unit is currently an "A" version, what remedy is Schiit offering?

 

[TonyNewman]

... it sounded the best it could when you purchased it. Now they have improvements. Just like most any other company except in this case, you don't have to replace the whole unit, you can have it upgraded for about 20% of a new unit....

Ed Zachary. When I upgraded my pavane from L1 to L2 it cost almost as much as a brand new Yggy. I was happy to do it and was very appreciative of both the manufacturer and distributor for working together to make the upgrade available locally (I live in New Zealand). I didn't bitch and moan about it - instead I was very happy to get a much improved DAC for a fraction of the cost of a new unit.

 

[5genez]

Dude, look at my sig....

So you are comparing a hardware upgrade of the analog output hardware to an FPGA code upgrade? Talking about apples to oranges.....

I am saying that the PS Audio uses firmware that is upgradable for most things needing upgrades. To upgrade a PSA is much easier to work with, and free most of the time. Schiit offers no such thing.

PSA will offer hardware upgrades for different things like MQA, sure.... but not for an audio output board. And, PSA also recommends using audiophile fuses. They come with their own actually They don't play their customers like they can not hear nuances and differences, and should not be concerned.

Yes.. Schiit Audio has been a negative-positive experience for me. If I were still selling audio? And Schiit sold through stores?.... I would be hearing customer complaints for sure after spending over two thousand dollars for a component with their stipulations. They need to stop treating the Yggy customer like some kid who purchased a Modi or magni.. When they entered into the high priced audiophile realm they will attract the interest of a new kind of customer. I ignored Schiit until the Yggy came out. It was for kids on a budget. That was the perception I got. And, with their "Schiit" attitude it was designed to appeal to an adolescent way of thinking. I have a sense of humor. But I never took them seriously until now.

Those here that keep saying to "suck it up?" You act as if we all have been drafted and now find ourselves on the battlefield. It should not be that way when dealing with an audiophile company. Kids can get pushed around and told what's what. When you are older, you do not appreciate they way they can treat you. Then some of the kids tell the man to keep it down. That's the way it is. If you don't like it? Go elsewhere!

Really? Must be a lot of spoiled rich kids buying those Yggys simply as status symbols, who can care less about anything else. That's the impression I have been getting from some here. Its bad business practice. And, according to one owner of a highly respected high end company its illegal to void a warranty simply for opening a case. He said its against the law. I tried contacting Schiit to see if what causes this regulation is due to a California law. So, far no response. Never heard of such a thing before. I used to sell audio. And, became a customer later on for many years. Never seen this before.

 

[iDesign]

...do you think Schiit posting more specs would have actually changed the whining about wanting "free upgrades for early adopters" or "a discount for existing customers"?

I am not referring to "free upgrades" rather I do feel more technical documentation and measurements would be helpful in making a decision to pursue the upgrade at the $550 cost. The subjective claims of better sound in Schiit's product info are not sufficient. However, I feel Schiit should include the Gen 5 USB in the Analog 2 upgrade price since it requires sending the unit to Schiit.

 

[Maxx134]

There is no Gen 4. Small fee? You have no idea how much the it actually cost them to upgrade. What you are saying makes no sense. No double edge sword. Just choose to upgrade or not. You current unit remains unaffected and does what it agreed to do when you paid for it.

A small analog board, with most likely surface mount parts...
I don't see why not small upgrade fee...
Check out how much jfets cost on mouser.

 

[LarryMagoo]

What is crappy about Schiit ...is their Customer Service...I sent an E-Mail at 9:00AM Pacific today asking them about turn-time for the Analog 2 update....as of 1:42 today still no reply....that IS pathetic Customer service...

Jason and Mike only want to do Design and Implementation ...they don't give a DAMN about actual Customer Service and the people they let do that don't give a damn either......

Im glad the egotist Marvey finally posted his impression on SBAF....

Oh gawd. This has been the hardest secret to keep. This is the DAC that brought me from exclusively vinyl back to digital. Vinyl is still better, but Yggy Analog 2 is close enough that my second system is exclusively digital. LOL, I actually told Jason I was going to call it the Analog DAC. I see that he's inserted the "Analog" moniker. Hopefully MSB doesn't get too upset.

As usual, I'm going to be brief, and also because since I've been able to live with it for a while so the newness has worn off.

1. Much blacker background, on the level of the the JFET active stage of the Freya. Not quite as inky as the Holo Spring DAC 3, but close enough. With this, increased articulation and bass textures. I think those people who felt the Yggy had a bit of haze or grey background would be extremely happy. The balanced outs do better than SE outs. I actually prefer the SE coupled with decent balanced to SE transformers (Cinemag) than the SE out - sounds cleaner and clearer.
2. Don't expect a Metrum sound. The Yggy still has its bold incisiveness, so those wanting a more relaxed and easygoing sound should go elsewhere. This isn't a $1000 Rega table type of sound.
3. However, there are denser tone colors, timbre, body, along with more fluidity and smoothness. Sort of how some R2R DACS like Master 7 or SFD2 have it. Not quite to the exaggerated extent of those DACs, but say two-thirds there.
4. Even more microdetail and better sense of microdynamics.
5. More localized depth around instruments, less cutout like, a la NOS. Not quite to that extent, but say 50% there.
6. Slightly larger soundstage, but with stronger center soundstage and imaging precision.
7. Maybe the best part: a hint of sweetness. The Holo Spring 3 has a similar kind of sweetness in the upper registers. The Yggy Analog 2 has sweetness in the mids.

That is all.

P.S. It's my understanding that it wasn't just the output stage.

This guy is so egotistical, I can hardly read his posts as he actually thinks his poop don't stink!!

 

[gefski]

From their first offerings, Schiit said they would offer ongoing upgrades instead of throwaway products. Now, as usual, they do what they say and this thread becomes a whine zone.

As Roy Hall (from Music Hall) once said, "Relax, there's never been a Hi-Fi emergency".

Since I control my FOBLB (fear of being left behind) pretty well, I'll just wait in the weeds until Spring and then decide on the upgrade or another path, no rush.

 

[5genez]

Ed Zachary. When I upgraded my pavane from L1 to L2 it cost almost as much as a brand new Yggy. I was happy to do it and was very appreciative of both the manufacturer and distributor for working together to make the upgrade available locally (I live in New Zealand). I didn't bitch and moan about it - instead I was very happy to get a much improved DAC for a fraction of the cost of a new unit.

I believe rich people who can easily afford to lose money are in no position to be the judge of those who must work hard to get enough money to afford something like Yggy. If I did not collect my social security and continued to work? I would not be able to make such purchases. Keep that in mind, please.

We are not all rich people here like yourself. We are in no position to accept your position.

 

[gdhal]

I believe rich people who can easily afford to lose money are in no position to be the judge of those who must work hard to get enough money to afford something like Yggy. If I did not collect my social security and continued to work?

But you certainly can afford to spend on fuses......

Sorry, I felt I just had to get that in. I'll put it to rest....

 

[5genez]

PS Audio does not give free hardware upgrades. In fact, their hardware upgrades are quite expensive!

Yes, quite expensive. I bought mine weeks after they were shipping out the B series.

 

[LarryMagoo]

More comments on Analog 2 from mr. ego ...Marvey....

Sweetness is one of those terms that it hard to define and could mean different things to different people. I would say that the sound of the Yggy Analog 2 does seem to "revert" more to the Gen V sound. It brings a lot of elements reminscent of the Gen V, the denser tone, the slam, etc. Not quite as thick as the Gen V, but I was never a fan of the thick sound - this keeping in mind there are variants of the Gen V that do sound slightly different (I didn't have the teflon board version).

Neal said: ↑
How much does Analog 2 increase the gap?
The gap is significant. I think a proper comparison would be to be a Gumby Analog 2, which does not yet exist. The Yggy Analog 2 jump from Yggy v1 is as huge from Mimby to Yggy v1 - keeping in mind that when we talk about DACs, we are splitting hairs.

A few of you may remember @Torq's cryptic profile last year: "Oh Schiit, this changes things." Evidently, he was referring to an early prototype of the Yggy Analog 2 (my access to this DAC came much later) and how this would change the order of this DAC comparison thread where the Yggy Analog 2 leaped back to the top. I'll let him speak (will post on this behalf) if he happens to read this thread and texts me something to say.

 

[bfreedma]

I am saying that the PS Audio uses firmware that is upgradable for most things needing upgrades. To upgrade a PSA is much easier to work with, and free most of the time. Schiit offers no such thing.

PSA will offer hardware upgrades for different things like MQA, sure.... but not for an audio output board. And, PSA also recommends using audiophile fuses. They come with their own actually They don't play their customers like they can not hear nuances and differences, and should not be concerned.

Yes.. Schiit Audio has been a negative-positive experience for me. If I were still selling audio? And Schiit sold through stores?.... I would be hearing customer complaints for sure after spending over two thousand dollars for a component with their stipulations. They need to stop treating the Yggy customer like some kid who purchased a Modi or magni.. When they entered into the high priced audiophile realm they will attract the interest of a new kind of customer. I ignored Schiit until the Yggy came out. It was for kids on a budget. That was the perception I got. And, with their "Schiit" attitude it was designed to appeal to an adolescent way of thinking. I have a sense of humor. But I never took them seriously until now.

Those here that keep saying to "suck it up?" You act as if we all have been drafted and now find ourselves on the battlefield. It should not be that way when dealing with an audiophile company. Kids can get pushed around and told what's what. When you are older, you do not appreciate they way they can treat you. Then some of the kids tell the man to keep it down. That's the way it is. If you don't like it? Go elsewhere!

Really? Must be a lot of spoiled rich kids buying those Yggys simply as status symbols, who can care less about anything else. That's the impression I have been getting from some here. Its bad business practice. And, according to one owner of a highly respected high end company its illegal to void a warranty simply for opening a case. He said its against the law. I tried contacting Schiit to see if what causes this regulation is due to a California law. So, far no response. Never heard of such a thing before. I used to sell audio. And, became a customer later on for many years. Never seen this before.

You knew the stipulations going in, or at least you should have as they are well documented. Your failure to read them is somehow Schiit's problem?

Frankly, I'm tired of you insulting me as an (educated) customer who knew what was and was not viable from a service perspective. You are also utterly and comprehensively wrong that it's "illegal to void a warranty simply for opening the case". It's not only legal, Schiit has fully covered themselves by stating "no user serviceable parts" are inside. Again, your failure to understand Schiit's business practices doesn't make them wrong, let alone illegal. You should do a better job of researching your purchases if you want to mod them.

No one is saying "suck it up" or shilling for the company. What people are saying is that your view of this - "I only care about what I want and the company's stated policies should not apply to me" - is a very immature take on this. And getting rather stale.