[winders]

Single ended triode refers to the amplifier design, as in single-ended vs. push-pull. It has nothing to do with balanced vs. unbalanced connections.

I would use Yggy's balanced outputs with an amp that has balanced inputs and use the balanced headphone cable.

Leotis was talking about the whether or not the design of the amp was a true differential hardware balanced design versus having balanced inputs, converting to single ended, processing, and then converting to balanced again. Yggdrasil is a true differential hardware balanced design while it appears, based on what Leotis said, the WA5 is not.

 

[Alu]

After having spent even more time with the unit (and having added a Lynx AES16e sound card, feeding it via AES/EBU), I feel like I can finally put into words what I like the most.

The previous DAC I was using was the Wyred 4 Sound DAC 1 LE, and I absolutely loved it.
This unit used the ESS Reference 9018 chip, and while a lot of people despise Sabre, I feel like the implementation of the W4S was great.
It had a slightly warm tinge to it and it paired exceptionally well with my previous setup: the Audio Technica HA5k amp and the W5k headphones.
I'm also one of the rare oddballs that actually likes these.

When I added the Utopia to the mix (and a new amp of course), the detail retrieval was increased quite dramatically, however, with the W4S it felt like the sound was not cohesive.
Everything sounded like it was doing its own separate thing, this was especially noticeable with some electronic music I had.
Perhaps this is what you would call not being very musical in lieu of having a boatload of details flung at your face.

The Yggy changed this - this thing doesn't only beat my previous DAC in terms of resolution, but it makes everything come together.
I mentioned before that I never had the experience of feeling like the band was right there in the room with me, and I don't think that this is only due to the stunning realism, but also because of the amazing feeling of cohesion it provides.
Highly resolving AND musical are not mutually exclusive with this device, and I feel like I missed out on musicality before this.

Having said that, I still truly believe that the W4S is a great device.

I can't comment on the difference the complete removal of USB did to my setup, because I didn't do A/B comparisons and I probably didn't spend enough time with the Yggy in USB mode.
When I did use the Yggy in USB, I know that it sounded very good as well, but I feel like its strengths (everything I mentioned) have been enhanced via AES/EBU.

 

[Leotis]

Leotis was talking about the whether or not the design of the amp was a true differential hardware balanced design versus having balanced inputs, converting to single ended, processing, and then converting to balanced again. Yggdrasil is a true differential hardware balanced design while it appears, based on what Leotis said, the WA5 is not.

Exactly!
Would just use the balanced connect except if i want DSD from the Oppo to the Woo, I need the Oppo balanced output (single ended goes to amp) and single ended from Yggy to Woo is the only option left.
I could just hook up both single and balanced and A/B the difference, but apparently I'm too lazy and would rather just ask you guys if there is much SQ difference. Haha.

 

[JohnnyCakes]

man, this sucks.

i ordered a Yggy about 2 weeks ago. said it would ship the "week of April 28". which was odd wording, as the 28th was a Friday.

anyway, nothing last week (no Yggy, nor any correspondence), so i sent an email to their customer service. i get this unfortunate reply:


"Thank you for your order. The Yggdrasil is experiencing production delays. It is expected to be a few weeks before they are available again, pending parts."


i wonder what's going on over there.......

okay, apparently they don't know what's going on over there either. two days after i get this status update from them (and post here), i get a ship notice. today, it's here. so much for a delay!

after reading thru this thread, i know i shouldn't listen to it until it's burned in a bit, and definitely not if it's cold. well, i couldn't wait. as soon as i took it out of the box and plugged it in, i listened to it.

Tidal > Yggy ~ balanced ~ Moon Neo 430 > Focal Utopia

and i am already speechless. it is absolutely transformative. i didn't think it'd make half this much difference from the internal DAC in the Moon Neo. WRONG! the detail retrieval is just amazing.

but i've already realized... it's NOT just about bringing every detail forward in your face. i notice parts in songs that used to stand out are now sitting back a bit, going from prominent to part of the background. amazing! perhaps just as it should be.

so it gets better from here, huh? i simply can't imagine. but damn i'm looking forward to it.

 

[billerb1]

okay, apparently they don't know what's going on over there either. two days after i get this status update from them (and post here), i get a ship notice. today, it's here. so much for a delay!

after reading thru this thread, i know i shouldn't listen to it until it's burned in a bit, and definitely not if it's cold. well, i couldn't wait. as soon as i took it out of the box and plugged it in, i listened to it.

Tidal > Yggy ~ balanced ~ Moon Neo 430 > Focal Utopia

and i am already speechless. it is absolutely transformative. i didn't think it'd make half this much difference from the internal DAC in the Moon Neo. WRONG! the detail retrieval is just amazing.

but i've already realized... it's NOT just about bringing every detail forward in your face. i notice parts in songs that used to stand out are now sitting back a bit, going from prominent to part of the background. amazing! perhaps just as it should be.

so it gets better from here, huh? i simply can't imagine. but damn i'm looking forward to it.

I am one month in. You're in 'tip of the iceberg' territory. Mine was nice out of the box too...then a pretty long lull. Magic appeared at about 150-170 hours.
Nuance improvement has continued since then. I must be just about all the way there...but even last night it was a magic carpet ride I hadn't been on before.
Plan on re-discovering your entire music library. And buckle up.

 

[AverageGuyNC]

Well people were talking a lot about ways to use other connections than usb, such as a ddc, because of the noise from usb. I was wondering if many peopke have tried the usb cables with separate power and data cables on the end that you plug in separately into your pc? You can just leave the power cable unplugged if you don't need it, and you won't get any of the noise right? I just ordered a lh labs 1g usb (used) that has the power and data separate which is supposed to try to fix it as well. But I'm talking about their 2g cable really. I'm skeptical, but found a 1g usb used for about $20?!! ($135 retail), Gonna try it out I guess. Anybody have experience with these?

 

[winders]

Well people were talking a lot about ways to use other connections than usb, such as a ddc, because of the noise from usb. I was wondering if many peopke have tried the usb cables with separate power and data cables on the end that you plug in separately into your pc? You can just leave the power cable unplugged if you don't need it, and you won't get any of the noise right? I just ordered a lh labs 1g usb (used) that has the power and data separate which is supposed to try to fix it as well. But I'm talking about their 2g cable really. I'm skeptical, but found a 1g usb used for about $20?!! ($135 retail), Gonna try it out I guess. Anybody have experience with these?

Rarely are the USB signals so bad that the ones and zeros get altered. Even though USB is digital, the system used to move the data around is analog in nature. The ones and zeros are just differential voltages. The main reason audio gets screwed up is because the receiver has a difficult time interpreting the differential signal and because of the power and ground issues that tag along with it. It adds noise to the circuitry in the DAC which effects the digital to analog conversion process and the sound of the music. Decrapifiers/isolators attempt to fix all of that.

While Yggdrasil has great clocks, Yggdrasil is not immune to crappy USB signals. Since I have an Yggdrasil and a Singxer F-1 DDC along with a MacBook Pro with iffy USB signals, I have first hand experience here. I get better sound quality out of Yggdrasil using the Singer F-1 than I do going straight USB. I posit that the Singxer F-1 is less affected by the crappy USB signal than Yggdrasil is and the Singxer F-1 puts out a nice clean appropriately clocked SPDIF signal that Yggdrasil has no problems processing.

I have a UpTone Audio ISO Regen on order (I should get it next week) that I am going to put between my MacBook Pro and the Singxer F-1 DDC. That should dramatically improve the USB signal going into the Singxer F-1. I will also test the ISO Regen going straight into my Yggdrasil via USB. However, I expect using the SPDIF input to sound better as the USB interface, even when feed near perfect signals, is not as unadulterated as using the SPDIF interface.

 

[AverageGuyNC]

So I have a wyrd, what if I used it before the singxer, that would/should be a great pairing? And is the f 1 good enough over the su 1?

But still, if I could unplug the power wire part of the USB and only use the data wire, wouldnt that fix the major problems, mostly eliminating the reason to change interconnects?

 

[sheldaze]

Though these are hard to compare, the internals of the F-1 and SU-1 are based on the same components. These are hard to compare because the F-1 requires the user provide a power supply. The SU-1 is limited to the internal power supply, which is why there are recent update options and user installed hacks. As most people prefer the digital output available from the SU-1, such as the AES to feed the Yggy.

I agree, the USB inputs on the Schiit DACs are quite good. I recently implemented an external box to separate the USB data and power, and my Bimby sounds phenomenal. I never had such an issue with my Yggy, as I was already using a very clean source. But however you can get a clean source into the USB, you will be rewarded!

 

[winders]

So I have a wyrd, what if I used it before the singxer, that would/should be a great pairing? And is the f 1 good enough over the su 1?

But still, if I could unplug the power wire part of the USB and only use the data wire, wouldnt that fix the major problems, mostly eliminating the reason to change interconnects?

You have to use the Wyrd before the Singxer F-1 or Singxer SU-1. A Singxer and a Wyrd make a good pairing. I wouldn't go so far as to say "great". The F-1 and SU-1 are based on the same chipsets and design. The SU-1 is more flexible as it offers more output interface options. The F-1 is cheaper and simpler.

You can't fix USB problems with a cable. Some of USB's issues come over the power line, some over the ground line, and some over the data lines. With some devices you don't need the +5vdc power line connected but your always need the ground a data lines. The best device is something that completely isolates the computer side of USB from the DAC/DDC side. That would be a device that the UpTone Audio ISO Regen. That device does not allow any of the power, ground, or data line issues to affect the DAC/DDC.

 

[hifimckinney]

Probably a few months ago, when someone here in this forum was checking about benefit of DDC, I irresponsibly commented that these things are either useless or do not bring in much of improvement. Then, recently, my system being based on Logitech Squeezebox Touch, as a casual upgrade, I changed my Touch with Logitech Transporter without expecting much of change. Well, I was just wrong. After hearing the shocking change (of course improved sound as if whole thing got a clean wash), I started some reading, not being so techy person, I read several reviews in several forums to find out as to what the difference between Touch and Transporter is? Though the chances are very less that I am wrong, what I found out was that it is jitter that every DAC says that they try to reduce it but nobody talks about being able to keep sanctity of the original data (the real intent how musician wanted it to sound or recorded) intact. The difference was that big that I just trashed all my Squeezeboxes and yes, even if somebody (from all Yggy owners) wants it, I will not give it to them as it is utter waste of money and one's time to buy such a nice DAC and then feeding it with junk.

It appears to me that reducing jitter and reclocking data hold the key and this is my current understanding and the major criterion for any new investment. I am so confident with this that I will ask all those who are planning to invest big money in cables, think for a DDC first not because cables are not important but the amount of change a good DDC will bring in, change of cables cannot match. Again chances of this approach being an YMMV is very less because this appears to be real truth and real challenge for DAC designers.

Now, we audiophiles are in one more trap of DDC and is an interesting trap to be in because without a proper DDC (or streamer) I do not think we are getting any benefit of a good DAC. I am frustrated to such a level that I like to ask all DAC manufacturer to stop producing DACs until they have mastered DDC and instead just selling the DAC, sell the combo with good streamer/DDC otherwise this whole thing defeats the purpose of FIDELITY that we all are dying for or spending more than what we can afford.

 

[winders]

Now, we audiophiles are in one more trap of DDC and is an interesting trap to be in because without a proper DDC (or streamer) I do not think we are getting any benefit of a good DAC. I am frustrated to such a level that I like to ask all DAC manufacturer to stop producing DACs until they have mastered DDC and instead just selling the DAC, sell the combo with good streamer/DDC otherwise this whole thing defeats the purpose of FIDELITY that we all are dying for or spending more than what we can afford.

I hear you!

It's really expensive to put a quality USB isolator/decrapifier inside a DAC. The power and space issues come to mind too. It's far easier and probably cheaper for us in the long run to buy a DDC or a music device that outputs SPDIF coax/AES to bypass USB than it is to have the DAC builders include it. From what I understand, some very expensive DACs have what you want. I just don't think you want to pay for them!

 

[johnjen]

After making many attempts to 'clean up' USB, some of us have abandoned USB altogether.
And as a result we have no incentive to want to go back.
USB was never designed for streaming digital audio and while lipstick on a pig may appear 'better', it is no substitute for using a digital audio protocol that was designed for this function.

USB can be 'helped' and some implementations can be quite nice.
But as MM stated, the best input for the Jggy is AES.
I concur, as do others.

I liken these attempts at making cables with different connectors on each end, with a box in the middle, as exploratory.
Which means we are figuring out what does and doesn't work, why, and what can be done to resolve these issues.

Thus far USB, while initially less expensive and easy to implement, is all to easily eclipsed by other approaches, and in the long term is no longer "less expensive and easy to implement".
And you just wind up with a pig with smeared lipstick.

IOW how high is up?

Been there, done that, lived to learn this lesson.
YMMV

JJ

 

[earnmyturns]

IMHO there's a lot of confusion and speculation about USB audio and DDCs, in part because people discussing this in forums have very different systems, source materials, and sensitivity to subtle sound changes. To simplify things radically, the main problem is the USB receiver inside the DAC. USB receivers are complex (typically) externally powered digital circuits that in doing the job of converting the asynchronous USB audio signal to a synchronous digital signal (I2S typically) generate varied switching noise and convey external power supply noise, contaminating the analog output of the DAC proper. Using a DDC like the SU-1 with S/PDIF, AES, or I2S output (depending on what your DAC accepts) moves that nasty USB receiver circuitry away from the DAC and thus reduces signal contamination. Other things being equal, using a DDC to keep USB away from the DAC obviates USB "cleaning," which does not do anything to keep the USB receiver away from the DAC. My $.02.

 

[winders]

Other things being equal, using a DDC to keep USB away from the DAC obviates USB "cleaning," which does not do anything to keep the USB receiver away from the DAC. My $.02.

I tend to agree with this, at least to a point. I suspect it still helps the DDC if the USB signals it gets are nice and clean. The question is: How much difference does it make to our ears?

I have an ISO Regen on order and I should get it sometime during this week. I will put the ISO Regen (powered by an LPS-1) in the chain before my Singxer F-1 DDC. I will also use a solid state USB "cable" called a "USPCB" to connect the ISO Regen to the DDC. The DDC should get an almost perfect USB signal with perfect ground and power. I'll certainly post my impressions!

Current chain:

MacBook (USB) -> Singxer F-1 (SPDIF coax) -> Yggdrasil

New chain:

MacBook (USB) -> ISO Regen (USPCB) -> Singxer F-1 (SPDIF coax) -> Yggdrasil