[johnjen]

Amazon has a very liberal return policy. I believe the two items that have the most measurable impact to a system would be a pure sine wave power conditioner (this is in no way limited to audio equipment, but highly overclocked computers and graphics cards as well) and a ferrite clamp for your USB cable (about 1 inch from the DAC input if you are using USB as your physical transport).

You seem to be pretty into modifying and optimizing your system, and I am sure you are very competent at it. As you are running in excess of $6000 worth of audio equipment, I think the cost (knowing the liberal return policy of Amazon) would be well worth the effort. Just something to consider.

-Ray

I have already played with ferrite chokes and have several of them on hand and a few are in use.
The results of using them (either positive or negative) are inconclusive, at least thus far.

As for the re-gen units I have not played with them, as I have pursued a different approach to delivering power and most significantly have performed ASCC tests, which I find much more fruitful in terms of establishing a direct correlation between SQ and power delivery.
And I have published these results in the CookBook thread.

What I have found thus far is while 'dirty power' can certainly be an issue for some, the power we have available here in Seattle is very stable and free from crud to begin with, at least at my house anyway.
In fact the transformer that feeds my house was recently replaced, and I have the shortest run (≈40') to my house and there are only 5 other houses on this branch circuit, among other near optimal ac power delivery aspects that are involved.

Thus for me a re-gen unit has a lower priority than other projects that are of more interest and I figure will yield more beneficial results in terms of sonic benefits.
Perhaps in the future I'll be able to try out a re-gen and/or balanced power delivery scheme with my system just to see if there truly is a benefit for me to my system.

But what the ASCC tests have demonstrated to me is that there is more to be gained than just what clean power and rfi suppression can deliver.

But in any event what I have learned is, if there is a CP in the chain between the source of power and the load, especially with sensitive electronics that are susceptible to 'external influences' (noise on the ground, current limiting connections, and the like), I CAN hear the difference when they are removed.
And the most recent insights we have gained is that ANY SMPS that is being used anywhere in our audio system and shares the same ac power source, has a negative effect on SQ, especially on highly tweaked systems.

And as I have chronicled previously, the fewer CP's that remain, the easier it is to hear if there are any changes as a result of performing experiments.
But I have also found that if major CP's remain in the audio playback chain, the entire system is operating at that lowest common denominator ability to function, which in turn WILL mask other CP's with less detrimental effects, such as power cables and connectors etc.

And might I mention that what I am relating here are the cumulative results of decades of trial and error experimenting which also includes my, in the field experience of service and installation and repair of industrial, commercial, and residential electrical and electronic systems.

IOW I'm not basing what I'm relating, to theory nor ideal circumstances, but real world, this is what happens over time, and what the consequences are, sorta stuff.

And since I've been at this for quite a while now, the results I'm attaining in my system attest to the efficacy of what I've learned.

JJ

 

[winders]

Ok, so then take the next logical step and replace the receptacle and see if you hear any improvement.

In my experience, when a receptacle is unable to pass current efficiently due to being 'worn out' there are SQ consequences, and the only way to know, is to experiment and find out for yourself.

I have done this and thus my advice is based upon my accumulated experiences and end results.
That is where my term CP (Choke Point) came from.
And after removing these, and other CP's and observing the consequences, it became rather obvious.

JJ

Do you know how an LPS-1 works? If you did, you would know that an AC power receptacle could have no affect on the DC power it puts out.

The LPS-1 has capacitors that are charged and discharged during operation and act much like a battery. The quality of the AC current does not and cannot matter. The whole premise behind audio grade linear power supplies is to provide clean very low noise DC power regardless of the dirtiness of the AC power.

Please explain the science behind how a power cable or receptacle is going to affect the DC power coming out of an LPS-1 or low noise audio grade linear power supply?

 

[theque]

The fact that you consider the receptacle a Choke Point when it is designed to handle 30 Amps and you are pulling less than 20% of that with your equipment seems silly. I am assuming you would clearly turn off other equipment pulling load with such concerns... The 14 guage cabling in your house is only rated for 15 Amps peak, 12 Amps nominal; yet the receptacle is the choke point? I have never in my life heard of a power receptacle (residential or commercial) as a Choke Point.

If I were you, I would write up all of these findings and submit them to IEEE for publishing.

-Ray

 

[theque]

I would also like to point out that if you plug in a Switched-Mode Power Supply into any receptacle in your house, it would have the same effect. So as I assume you have a modern TV in your house (or any number of modern electronics like computers), you have plenty of SMPS on the "Circuit," unless you have a completely separate circuit for just your audio equipment. Just grab one of those cheap Ethernet over power line converters and watch how it can be used on every outlet in the house (would not work on the separate 240VAC circuit that you may have for your dryer).

-Ray

 

[JohnnyCakes]

man, this sucks.

i ordered a Yggy about 2 weeks ago. said it would ship the "week of April 28". which was odd wording, as the 28th was a Friday.

anyway, nothing last week (no Yggy, nor any correspondence), so i sent an email to their customer service. i get this unfortunate reply:


"Thank you for your order. The Yggdrasil is experiencing production delays. It is expected to be a few weeks before they are available again, pending parts."


i wonder what's going on over there.......

 

[US Blues]

man, this sucks.

i ordered a Yggy about 2 weeks ago. said it would ship the "week of April 28". which was odd wording, as the 28th was a Friday.

anyway, nothing last week (no Yggy, nor any correspondence), so i sent an email to their customer service. i get this unfortunate reply:


"Thank you for your order. The Yggdrasil is experiencing production delays. It is expected to be a few weeks before they are available again, pending parts."


i wonder what's going on over there.......

Reads to me like they are waiting for parts. They have had problems keeps the DAC chips in stock since Yggy was introduced, due to supply factors.

 

[theveterans]

Analog Devices never expected a huge demand with their multiplying DAC chips as well as their SHARC DSP processors probably.

 

[johnjen]

Do you know how an LPS-1 works? If you did, you would know that an AC power receptacle could have no affect on the DC power it puts out.
Yes I do, now that I looked into them a few days back.
They use a SMPS to feed multiple banks of ultra capacitors, and for that reason alone I wouldn't use one until I replaced the SMPS with a LPS.
It struck me as peculiar that they would opt to go with that compromise, even though I do understand why.

The LPS-1 has capacitors that are charged and discharged during operation and act much like a battery. The quality of the AC current does not and cannot matter. The whole premise behind audio grade linear power supplies is to provide clean very low noise DC power regardless of the dirtiness of the AC power.

I do understand what their design criteria is and was.
But based upon my own research and especially the most recent findings that several of us here in Seattle have determined, ANY use of a SMPS in a sufficiently resolving system will degrade the overall SQ and in easily noticeable ways, again assuming the system is suitably resolving.
Which means that while they on one hand are creating clean dc power they are also contaminating the electrical environment with additional dirty noise from the SMPS, at the same time.
IOW they use a dirty power supply to make clean power

And again my findings don't agree with yours about a poor electrical connection starting from the wall receptacle, which I have also documented in the CookBook thread.

Please explain the science behind how a power cable or receptacle is going to affect the DC power coming out of an LPS-1 or low noise audio grade linear power supply?

Judging by the attitude I perceive from your post(s) I doubt that anything I might say will be sufficient to meet your expectations.

However, I already have provided considerable evidence and a summation of the ASCC testing I have performed already.
The conclusion(s) I leave for each individual to make for themselves.
I can provide a link to the 5 part write up I posted in the CookBook thread if you would like.

And our recent experimentation into the use of LPS's vs SMPS's and the effect upon both digital as well as analog circuits, that these changes do make, does indeed verify the need for a 'clean' electrical power and ground environment, everywhere.
But perhaps even more pertinent is the finding that not creating more noise in the first place, is much more effective than having to filter it out after it's already been created.

IOW SMPS's degrade the SQ of a suitably resolving system.
And all it has to do is be connected to the same ac mains as the rest of the system to do so.

But really in the final analysis it is your determination of what is 'true' or not that matters to you.
I have proved over and over again to myself and to others that these aspects of our systems DO make a difference to us who have heard them.

JJ

 

[johnjen]

The fact that you consider the receptacle a Choke Point when it is designed to handle 30 Amps and you are pulling less than 20% of that with your equipment seems silly. I am assuming you would clearly turn off other equipment pulling load with such concerns... The 14 guage cabling in your house is only rated for 15 Amps peak, 12 Amps nominal; yet the receptacle is the choke point? I have never in my life heard of a power receptacle (residential or commercial) as a Choke Point.

If I were you, I would write up all of these findings and submit them to IEEE for publishing.

-Ray

I consider cheap, as I mentioned previously, contractor grade connectors, especially worn out ones, to be CP's as my experiments have repeatedly demonstrated.
And if you were to do the research into ASCC you might realize what these differences are as well.
Your assumption, that it's just a matter of steady state current draw is mis-leading and ASCC results clearly show this.

"Choke Points" are the descriptive term I use to explain many such situations of which ac power distribution is but one.
So it's no wonder you've never heard of it before.

I would also like to point out that if you plug in a Switched-Mode Power Supply into any receptacle in your house, it would have the same effect. So as I assume you have a modern TV in your house (or any number of modern electronics like computers), you have plenty of SMPS on the "Circuit," unless you have a completely separate circuit for just your audio equipment. Just grab one of those cheap Ethernet over power line converters and watch how it can be used on every outlet in the house (would not work on the separate 240VAC circuit that you may have for your dryer).

-Ray

I am running 2 dedicated branch circuits, one for the computer and all of the SMPS powered devices and one for my audio system as I describe in the series of posts on ASCC.
And as you observed I am into modifying my gear and I have developed an extensive system for knowing what is and what is not 'Better' for me and what I define as 'Better'.
And I am not alone in these determinations as others in our local HeadFi community have also jumped down these rabbit holes and found out for themselves what does and does not contribute to making their systems 'Better'.

But enough of our back and forth banter.
This is the Jggy Impressions thread to which we should return our discussions.
Thanks for the chance to exchange our opinions on what we deem important.

JJ

 

[winders]

Oh, john jen, where did I say anything about about noise injected back into the AC mains? You were saying that an AC receptacle could cause the LPS-1 problems. That is what I addressed. Now, since you science was flawed there, you can take a the typical tact of changing the parameters of the argument.

Yes, SMPS units do inject noise back into the AC lines. This is not good and that's why I have none, at the moment, on the audio side of my power setup. All I have is my DAC, headphone amp, and powered monitors plugged into the power strip. None of those will take a linear power supply as they have built-in power supplies integrated into their circuitry. I also have a Topaz isolation transformer with a TrippLite "PS" style power strip. Why? The low impedance between AC plugs in the power strip actually reduce the noise injected back into the power strip.

This "nervosa" you have that you share with "rob2013" is a little over the top. But hey, whatever floats your boat!

 

[winders]

I would also like to point out that if you plug in a Switched-Mode Power Supply into any receptacle in your house, it would have the same effect. So as I assume you have a modern TV in your house (or any number of modern electronics like computers), you have plenty of SMPS on the "Circuit," unless you have a completely separate circuit for just your audio equipment. Just grab one of those cheap Ethernet over power line converters and watch how it can be used on every outlet in the house (would not work on the separate 240VAC circuit that you may have for your dryer).

-Ray

Ray,

This is why johnjen wants us to buy into to:

http://www.usaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1172

Read through that if you dare.

 

[theque]

Ray,

This is why johnjen wants us to buy into to:

http://www.usaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1172

Read through that if you dare.

A lot of speculation in that thread as far as I could see. Not a single mention of a spectrum analyzer, oscilloscope, or SPL meter... I guess these guys have such golden ears they can hear micro phase distortion or 0.25 dB of analog noise floor change. Some of the supply chains they have created, from source to headphones) are so complex, I think they are hearing distortion as "better audio."

Again, if someone thinks Beats Headphones are the best on the planet, I am not going to tell them they are dumb. What sounds good to one person may not sound good to another person. But if you want to talk about the frequency graphs between said headphones and say the HD800's I have science on my side. The same goes with the foolishness of "silver cables bring out the highs, or base, or sound stage, etc..." Show me on a spectrum analyzer the exact change. This goes even more so with an electrical outlets... I know the "cable debate" is as old as time on these forums, and the moderators really do not like people arguing about it. However, there must be a limit to the madness. Having people recommend people change their electrical outlets, or turning off all computers and modern equipment running SMPS, etc...

I think my suggestion of the power conditioner with only your audio equipment plugged in will suffice from an actual measurable standpoint. I am on sick time at the moment because I have some sort of blood infection. Usually, finding 30 min to an hour to just sit quietly and listen to music is a challenge for me. I sometimes wonder if people actually like music on these forums, or if they spend all of their time A/B'ing equipment setups.

-Ray

 

[johnjen]

Oh, john jen, where did I say anything about about noise injected back into the AC mains? You were saying that an AC receptacle could cause the LPS-1 problems. That is what I addressed. Now, since you science was flawed there, you can take a the typical tact of changing the parameters of the argument.

Yes, SMPS units do inject noise back into the AC lines. This is not good and that's why I have none, at the moment, on the audio side of my power setup. All I have is my DAC, headphone amp, and powered monitors plugged into the power strip. None of those will take a linear power supply as they have built-in power supplies integrated into their circuitry. I also have a Topaz isolation transformer with a TrippLite "PS" style power strip. Why? The low impedance between AC plugs in the power strip actually reduce the noise injected back into the power strip.

This "nervosa" you have that you share with "rob2013" is a little over the top. But hey, whatever floats your boat!

Talk about "the typical tact of changing the parameters of the argument"
I mentioned the SMPS because the LPS-1 uses one and to me it would seem to be counter productive to the very problem that their power supply is trying to clean up.

And I never stated that an ac receptacle would cause LPS-1 problems.
I did state that a worn out receptacle would cause problems for anything plugged into it due to current limiting, AND that you should determine this for yourself.
Again, I invite you to investigate ASCC.

So please try to not put words into my mouth.
As for the discourse that rb2013 is pursuing, again please try to not make claims of what I do and don't support.
It doesn't help in a civil discourse.

Ray,

This is why johnjen wants us to buy into to:

http://www.usaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1172

Read through that if you dare.

To me this tells me more about you than it reflects reality.
And as for getting you to buy into it, like I said "Judging by the attitude I perceive from your post(s) I doubt that anything I might say will be sufficient to meet your expectations."

But it is a well known fact that character denigration and disparaging remarks are the sure signs of a weak argument.
Just say'n is all.

Anyway I know what works for me and will continue to pursue tweaks as I deem them appropriate.
And with that being said I'm out of this.

JJ

 

[theque]

I did state that a worn out receptacle would cause problems for anything plugged into it due to current limiting, AND that you should determine this for yourself.

I guess these old houses no longer need fuse boxes, as the old worn out receptacles are limiting the current draw. Good to know.

-Ray

 

[johnjen]

I see.

JJ