[TJ Max]

got it thanks! you'd think I'd already know that after being around here since 2010. If you don't mind I have one more entry level question.

What are you using in terms of power for your DACs and other equipment. Is it ok to put them all into one surge protector or am I degrading audio quality by doing this? I know there are crazy expensive power cords and what not, but in general, should these components be plugged straight into the wall?

I'm using Monoprice power cables. They were like $4 each. Schiit uses the exact same branded cable! Thier's is just 18 awg and I bought 14 awg ones. My intention really was just to use a much shorter cable than the cables that came with my Yggy and Rag to avoid cable clutter. I'm connecting them to a Furman PST 2+6 ac conditioner. I chose Furman because I knew it is a popular brand with many audio and video enthusiast.

 

[hifimckinney]

I have a dumb question. When you use a transport, say a CD player or squeezebox touch and feed it coax to the yiggy or GMB, does the signal get double DACed? How does that work? Does it just bypass the DAC in the transport and is converted within the schiit? If that is the case, then wouldn't the quality of transport make no difference at all?

excuse my ignorance, thanks.

Yes, the DAC on Touch is bypassed. As for quality transport, I too had been living with same understanding for several years and just two days ago, I tried Logitech Transport and all the theories I had, are eclipsed now. It took the performance to a different level.

 

[winders]

got it thanks! you'd think I'd already know that after being around here since 2010. If you don't mind I have one more entry level question.

What are you using in terms of power for your DACs and other equipment. Is it ok to put them all into one surge protector or am I degrading audio quality by doing this? I know there are crazy expensive power cords and what not, but in general, should these components be plugged straight into the wall?

Look at this thread:

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/...ed-from-quotlps-1-troubleshootingquot-thread/

I took the advice of John Swenson and purchased a Used Topaz isolation transformer on eBay and a TrippLite "PS" power strip. There sound quality improvement was significant!

 

[Topspin70]

I'm using Monoprice power cables. They were like $4 each. Schiit uses the exact same branded cable! Thier's is just 18 awg and I bought 14 awg ones. My intention really was just to use a much shorter cable than the cables that came with my Yggy and Rag to avoid cable clutter. I'm connecting them to a Furman PST 2+6 ac conditioner. I chose Furman because I knew it is a popular brand with many audio and video enthusiast.

So those power cords from Schiit are from Monoprice? They are pretty good and I use it for my amp. Glad you mention it. I'll try to get a couple online. I see that you picked a larger gauge. (That's why you asked whether it would work on the yggy in the earlier post). Is the difference significantly better?

 

[TJ Max]

So those power cords from Schiit are from Monoprice? They are pretty good and I use it for my amp. Glad you mention it. I'll try to get a couple online. I see that you picked a larger gauge. (That's why you asked whether it would work on the yggy in the earlier post). Is the difference significantly better?

I hear no difference in sound between the 18 and 14 gauge.

 

[johnjen]

The next most effective thing to experiment with are better receptacles.
This is where I made my 'breakthru' when I used a highend Hubbell connector that had been cryo treated.
I've found them for as low as $24 each.

But most of the receptacles are what we refer to as 'contractor grade' (translated to mean the cheapest he can get at the moment in hundreds quantity) and if 'old', are often worn out, so it will never be able to function optimally.

And when after swapping to a receptacle that does make an immediate change for the better, I'd bet that the differences between the 18 and 14 gauge cables will also be apparent.

JJ

 

[Topspin70]

I hear no difference in sound between the 18 and 14 gauge.

Gotcha. Thanks for sharing.

 

[theque]

Are you guys seriously talking about gauge of an an electrical cable or even cryo-treated outlets?

Cmon guys, if you think you have bad power (which you probably do as most older residential homes do), then you need to buy a pure sine wave UPS power conditioner.

like this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00429N19W/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Your power is not dirty because of the 2' 16 gauge cable from monoprice, nor is it dirty from a "contractor grade" outlet. There are so many factors you cannot control between the power plant, all of the transformers and all of the high power cables being influenced by outside frequencies (such as wireless towers or TV broadcast towers). Just clean your power before it goes into your equipment.

-Ray

 

[kazsud]

Does Yggdrasil sound good with electronic music?

Absolutely.
Jazz
Funk
Hip Hop
Electronic
Library

 

[johnjen]

Are you guys seriously talking about gauge of an an electrical cable or even cryo-treated outlets?

Cmon guys, if you think you have bad power (which you probably do as most older residential homes do), then you need to buy a pure sine wave UPS power conditioner.

like this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00429N19W/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Your power is not dirty because of the 2' 16 gauge cable from monoprice, nor is it dirty from a "contractor grade" outlet. There are so many factors you cannot control between the power plant, all of the transformers and all of the high power cables being influenced by outside frequencies (such as wireless towers or TV broadcast towers). Just clean your power before it goes into your equipment.

-Ray

A couple of things.
#1 Do you really think plugging in a re-gen unit (or anything else) into a 'compromised' outlet will deliver the best power it can?

#2 $24 is MUCH less than several hundred or thousands and if the SQ takes a big step up it could be one of the best $$/performance values out there.

#3 I am relating this from my personal experience which isn't based upon conjecture, nor the way I thought it should be.
In fact I didn't believe a better receptacle would or even could make much if any difference, until I found out differently, by actually trying several of them.
And then I did take measurements and posted them here, and the results clearly show that cables, and connectors etc. DO make a difference.

IOW advising someone that this or that is a pointless exercise without doing the experimentation and finding out for yourself can be very misleading, to say the least.

Lastly, you brought up the idea of 'bad or dirty power', while we didn't, at all.
A bit of an apples to oranges comparison methinks.

Just a few perspectives to consider.

JJ

 

[winders]

A couple of things.
#1 Do you really think plugging in a re-gen unit (or anything else) into a 'compromised' outlet will deliver the best power it can?

It depends. Plug an UpTone Audio LPS-1 into a compromised AC outlet and it will still delivery extremely clean DC power at the voltage it is set to.

 

[theque]

A couple of things.
#1 Do you really think plugging in a re-gen unit (or anything else) into a 'compromised' outlet will deliver the best power it can?

#2 $24 is MUCH less than several hundred or thousands and if the SQ takes a big step up it could be one of the best $$/performance values out there.

#3 I am relating this from my personal experience which isn't based upon conjecture, nor the way I thought it should be.
In fact I didn't believe a better receptacle would or even could make much if any difference, until I found out differently, by actually trying several of them.
And then I did take measurements and posted them here, and the results clearly show that cables, and connectors etc. DO make a difference.

IOW advising someone that this or that is a pointless exercise without doing the experimentation and finding out for yourself can be very misleading, to say the least.

Lastly, you brought up the idea of 'bad or dirty power', while we didn't, at all.
A bit of an apples to oranges comparison methinks.

Just a few perspectives to consider.

JJ

#1 Yes.

#2 Correct, no one can argue that $24 is less then $200

#3 To your point, I have not tried to replace receptacles to improve audio quality. However, a little background on me... I started my career as an EE design engineer for an FPGA based satellite communications modem manufacture (Comtech EF Data), which I am still employed in an executive role now. Let me assure you, transforming an analog (or digital for that matter) signal into the IF realm and modulating it at LDPC 32ARY 7/8 FEC, then up converting it to the RF realm followed by amplifying it to travel 22,000 miles through the atmosphere as a quality signal is a fairly challenging experience. I am absolutely aware of the impacts of improper ground, or spurious emissions have on the equipment being powered. Not once, in my entire 22 year career, have I ever heard of a cryo treated outlet, or power cable change actually impacting anything (save having an absolute broken one). What I know for fact helps is a proper power conditioner. All earth stations are equipped with massive UPS systems which provide power conditioning for this very purpose. On submarines, for example, they go through extreme measures on power conditioning as close to the equipment as possible as static electricity interference is a real problem.

#4 (or Lastly as you put it) the gauge of the cable is only intended to provide 2 functions. First is loss over distance as a thicker cable will have less loss over distance at 60Hz (US) or 50Hz (International). Secondly, as Amps (or Watts) is also equivalent to heat, and the more Amps (or Watts) a piece of equipment is drawing, the hotter the actual cable will become. Thus if you use too small of a gauge cable, you can actually burn through the casing and cause a short or a fire. There are no other electrical benefits to having a larger gauge cable. However, there are absolutely measurable differences in having a pure sine wave power conditioner inline to any electronics equipment as most residential power does indeed suck. You see this anywhere from computer overclockers to audio equipment where the internal AC->DC power supply just cannot handle some of the issues properly. A change of 0.02 VDC is a real problem when overclocking a processor to it's extreme for example.

Take my "perspective" for what it is worth to you. I honestly could care less what you spend your own hard earned money on. You have the right to purchase anything, and your ears will hear the changes that you are hearing (I cannot argue what your ears are hearing). What I can argue is that there is no technical reason for the change, again unless there was an actual fault in the receptacle itself (which there may have been).

Just a few perspectives for you to consider...

-Ray

 

[johnjen]

It depends. Plug an UpTone Audio LPS-1 into a compromised AC outlet and it will still delivery extremely clean DC power at the voltage it is set to.

Ok, so then take the next logical step and replace the receptacle and see if you hear any improvement.

In my experience, when a receptacle is unable to pass current efficiently due to being 'worn out' there are SQ consequences, and the only way to know, is to experiment and find out for yourself.

I have done this and thus my advice is based upon my accumulated experiences and end results.
That is where my term CP (Choke Point) came from.
And after removing these, and other CP's and observing the consequences, it became rather obvious.

JJ

 

[johnjen]

#1 Yes.

#2 Correct, no one can argue that $24 is less then $200

#3 To your point, I have not tried to replace receptacles to improve audio quality. However, a little background on me... I started my career as an EE design engineer for an FPGA based satellite communications modem manufacture (Comtech EF Data), which I am still employed in an executive role now. Let me assure you, transforming an analog (or digital for that matter) signal into the IF realm and modulating it at LDPC 32ARY 7/8 FEC, then up converting it to the RF realm followed by amplifying it to travel 22,000 miles through the atmosphere as a quality signal is a fairly challenging experience. I am absolutely aware of the impacts of improper ground, or spurious emissions have on the equipment being powered. Not once, in my entire 22 year career, have I ever heard of a cryo treated outlet, or power cable change actually impacting anything (save having an absolute broken one). What I know for fact helps is a proper power conditioner. All earth stations are equipped with massive UPS systems which provide power conditioning for this very purpose. On submarines, for example, they go through extreme measures on power conditioning as close to the equipment as possible as static electricity interference is a real problem.

#4 (or Lastly as you put it) the gauge of the cable is only intended to provide 2 functions. First is loss over distance as a thicker cable will have less loss over distance at 60Hz (US) or 50Hz (International). Secondly, as Amps (or Watts) is also equivalent to heat, and the more Amps (or Watts) a piece of equipment is drawing, the hotter the actual cable will become. Thus if you use too small of a gauge cable, you can actually burn through the casing and cause a short or a fire. There are no other electrical benefits to having a larger gauge cable. However, there are absolutely measurable differences in having a pure sine wave power conditioner inline to any electronics equipment as most residential power does indeed suck. You see this anywhere from computer overclockers to audio equipment where the internal AC->DC power supply just cannot handle some of the issues properly. A change of 0.02 VDC is a real problem when overclocking a processor to it's extreme for example.

Take my "perspective" for what it is worth to you. I honestly could care less what you spend your own hard earned money on. You have the right to purchase anything, and your ears will hear the changes that you are hearing (I cannot argue what your ears are hearing). What I can argue is that there is no technical reason for the change, again unless there was an actual fault in the receptacle itself (which there may have been).

Just a few perspectives for you to consider...

-Ray

I see.

Your results run counter to mine and I have done testing to look into the gauge of wire and its effects.
Which is where my advice comes from, which are not based upon null results.
Enough said from me.

JJ

 

[theque]

I see.

Your results run counter to mine and I have done testing to look into the gauge of wire and its effects.
Which is where my advice comes from, which are not based upon null results.
Enough said from me.

JJ

Amazon has a very liberal return policy. I believe the two items that have the most measurable impact to a system would be a pure sine wave power conditioner (this is in no way limited to audio equipment, but highly overclocked computers and graphics cards as well) and a ferrite clamp for your USB cable (about 1 inch from the DAC input if you are using USB as your physical transport).

You seem to be pretty into modifying and optimizing your system, and I am sure you are very competent at it. As you are running in excess of $6000 worth of audio equipment, I think the cost (knowing the liberal return policy of Amazon) would be well worth the effort. Just something to consider.

-Ray