Schiit Ragnarok Amplifier

[Barry S]

  Need your views...My headphones are the Alpha Primes...I have been struggling with whether to go with the Schiit Lyr2/Bifrost Uber stack or the Mjolnir/Gungnir stack and then I had this epiphany, but tell me if I am wrong....I was thinking that if I was going to spend approximately $1600 on the M/G combo, perhaps I should put all of that into the Ragnarok and forego a DAC for the time being....what do you think?   Would I  be making a mistake....?

I haven't heard the Alpha Primes, but I've heard the Alpha Dogs with the Lyr 2/Bifrost Uber, and I think it's an underwhelming combination. The signature was overly warm, with a smallish soundstage, and a lack of instrument separation. The Mjolnir is a picky amp, and even if you like it with your Alpha Primes, it limits your future options. Just something to keep in mind.

 

[reddog]

High gain = Maximum kick in the pants. Seems counter-intuitive for a relatively low impedance headphone, but give it a try. I prefer it with the planars I've tried, including the LCD-3. Best of luck.

+1 I use the Ragnarok high gain to power my Alpha Prime's, and I love how my AP'S sound.

 

[negura]

   

 
Thanks all. I want to make sure there isn't anything I missed - some amps have bsh** feature buttons like crossfeed that actually can mess up the sound. I don't see anything like that here. The Rag is plugged in the mains directly, no conditioning equipment connected. Being a demo loaner, I can only assume burn-in is a done deal. Unfortunately at the moment, I don't have another desktop dynamic headphones amp at home to compare the LCD-3Fs between amps directly.  That is about to change as I should receive an Audio GD HE-9 in the coming days, to compare it directly to the Rag. For now my first assessment was done against my speaker amp and vs a "lowly" RWAK.
 
On the speaker setup running 87dB PMC OB1is, my Xindak A600 MK2, which granted is a beast of an amp, is way out of Rag's league in all respects: sound stage, transparency, speed, dynamics, details, control. You name it. This is not surprising and nor is it a fair contest, but the gap is big.
 
My missus summarized the speakers experience very bluntly as: Isn't this sounding more stifled? That was switching to the Rag on speakers and I can't disagree with her.    I was not planning on buying it as a speaker amp so moving swiftly on.
 
Just for a quick check the LCD-3Fs went on my Astell and Kern portable, which for all its limitations being a portable etc I don't dislike how it is driving the 3Fs, which is an agile, articulated and transparent manner, albeit with a crappy soundstage, more closed sound, no R2R love etc. The Astell Kern DAC does not hold a candle to either my Theta Gen VA or PWD2 desktop DACs.
 
Nevertheless I left the Rag on overnight and will see what happens today/tomorrow.

 

[johnjen]

   
Thanks all. I want to make sure there isn't anything I missed - some amps have bsh** feature buttons like crossfeed that actually can mess up the sound. I don't see anything like that here. The Rag is plugged in the mains directly, no conditioning equipment connected. Being a demo loaner, I can only assume burn-in is a done deal. Unfortunately at the moment, I don't have another desktop dynamic headphones amp at home to compare the LCD-3Fs between amps directly.  That is about to change as I should receive an Audio GD HE-9 in the coming days, to compare it directly to the Rag. For now my first assessment was done against my speaker amp and vs a "lowly" RWAK.
 
On the speaker setup running 87dB PMC OB1is, my Xindak A600 MK2, which granted is a beast of an amp, is way out of Rag's league in all respects: sound stage, transparency, speed, dynamics, details, control. You name it. This is not surprising, but the gap is big.
 
My missus summarized the speakers experience very bluntly as: Isn't this sounding more stifled? That was switching to the Rag on speakers and I can't disagree with her.    I was not planning on buying it as a speaker amp so moving swiftly on.
 
Just for a quick check the LCD-3Fs went on my Astell and Kern portable, which for all its limitations being a portable etc I don't dislike how it is driving the 3Fs, which is an agile, articulated and transparent manner, albeit with a crappy soundstage, more closed sound, no R2R love etc. The Astell Kern DAC does not hold a candle to either my Theta Gen VA or PWD2 desktop DACs.
 
Nevertheless I left the Rag on overnight and will see what happens today/tomorrow.

Good idea to leave it on for an 'extended' period to see if anything changes.
 
As for it being a loaner and being burned-in, perhaps.
It took my Rok ≈ 100hrs before it began to blossom and even then it was over 650hrs before it REALLY started to kick, big time.
 
And, at least in my system, it usually takes ≈100+hrs for any piece of gear, regardless of how many hrs are on it, before it starts to sing to it's full potential, again.  I wish it didn't or at least if I knew why it would help 'soften' the wait a bit…
 
And as I mentioned these cyclotron amps are ac power sensitive, in that if the mains power can't deliver lots of current without voltage sag the amp will not operate at it's 'best'.
But even so what you're describing is not 'normal' for this amp.
 
So are there any other live loads on the branch circuit that feeds your amp, etc.?
And would it be safe to assume that you have a 'standard' 10-15amp branch circuit current limit?
 
I/we await your next post with news…
 
JJ  :thumb

 

[negura]

That's very useful to know. I will leave it on 24/7 and will try a couple of different things, like use a different power circuit and perhaps try my power regen as well.

 

[johnjen]

These are just musings, so consider them as food for thought, and you may (probably) have already addressed these issues
So, one last thought for the night…
 
If memory serves conventional English house wiring wasn't/isn't grounded, much like the wiring in my house, it’s a 2 wire system (hot & neutral) and no separate ground wire.
 
This system (again like my house wiring) can be reverse polarized all to easily.
Whereas most appliances don't care, this usually isn't the case for audio equipment, especially ones that are ac power sensitive. 

 
Of course since you already have lots of hi-end equipment this may be all wrong…
But, could you have the hot-neutral reversed?
Or have a 'weak' ground connection?
Where The Rok is plugged in?
 
Just curious…
 
JJ

 

[negura]

That's the continental European system. I happen to be familiar with the issue, as I have some cables like that in a different mains power block, for stuff that I bought from the EU. But good tip. I did run into that problem with my network streamer for example. It sounds worse with polarity reversed.
 
The UK wiring only allows one way of insertion. It's the type G plug here:
http://www.worldstandards.eu/electricity/plugs-and-sockets/
 
There isn't anything to indicate there's an actual issue at core here, but happy to try various things regardless. I always do that anyway to find what sounds best.

 

[negura]

Transformer hum - audible from 50cm away in a very quiet room, only when powered on. The amp sits on a wooden desk.
Is this normal for the Rag?

 

[reddog]

Transformer hum - audible from 50cm away in a very quiet room, only when powered on. The amp sits on a wooden desk.
Is this normal for the Rag?

No my Ragnarok does not hum at all. Have you checked for a ground loop problem? You should contact the folk at Schiit Audio, and get their feedback.

 

[negura]

Yeah, I guess I could file a question to their support. Although this being a loaner demo from overseas not sure how it will work, but will soon find out.
 
Meanwhile I took the amp to my house extension which is running a dedicated power circuit with nothing else on it for testing purpose. No difference to the hum, except if the amp it sits on a more solid surface, that seems to absorb some of the hum. As soon as it's moved to anything like an average desk, the hum becomes noticeable.
 
For reference I measured the background noise in the room at around 20dB. Sound probe 25-30cm away from the Rag, turning the amp on, I get a reading of 7-8dB added to ambient noise. My KGSSHV on the same surface is whisper quiet. It is very hard to notice any transformer noise even with my ear on the case.
 
Later update:
Firstly I am impressed with the Schiit Tech support response time. 
Question answered: Hum a half a meter away? Totally normal.
 
I will find a place for the Rag further away from my listening spot.

 

[reddog]

Yeah, I guess I could file a question to their support. Although this being a loaner demo from overseas not sure how it will work, but will soon find out.

Meanwhile I took the amp to my house extension which is running a dedicated power circuit with nothing else on it for testing purpose. No difference to the hum, except if the amp it sits on a more solid surface, that seems to absorb some of the hum. As soon as it's moved to anything like an average desk, the hum becomes noticeable.

For reference I measured the background noise in the room at around 20dB. Sound probe 25-30cm away from the Rag, turning the amp on, I get a reading of 7-8dB added to ambient noise. My KGSSHV on the same surface is whisper quiet. It is very hard to notice any transformer noise even with my ear on the case.

Later update:
Firstly I am impressed with the Schiit Tech support response time. 
Question answered: [COLOR=222222]Hum a half a meter away? Totally normal.[/COLOR]

I will find a place for the Rag further away from my listening spot.

Sweet glad the the techs at Schiit Audio were able to help you.

 

[preproman]

  Yeah, I guess I could file a question to their support. Although this being a loaner demo from overseas not sure how it will work, but will soon find out.
 
Meanwhile I took the amp to my house extension which is running a dedicated power circuit with nothing else on it for testing purpose. No difference to the hum, except if the amp it sits on a more solid surface, that seems to absorb some of the hum. As soon as it's moved to anything like an average desk, the hum becomes noticeable.
 
For reference I measured the background noise in the room at around 20dB. Sound probe 25-30cm away from the Rag, turning the amp on, I get a reading of 7-8dB added to ambient noise. My KGSSHV on the same surface is whisper quiet. It is very hard to notice any transformer noise even with my ear on the case.
 
Later update:
Firstly I am impressed with the Schiit Tech support response time. 
Question answered: Hum a half a meter away? Totally normal.
 
I will find a place for the Rag further away from my listening spot.

 
 
With all these totally silent amps on the market, how can this be normal or acceptable for that matter?

 

[Tuco1965]

I think if that's true, then it would definitely bother me.

 

[darinf]

  Yeah, I guess I could file a question to their support. Although this being a loaner demo from overseas not sure how it will work, but will soon find out.
 
Meanwhile I took the amp to my house extension which is running a dedicated power circuit with nothing else on it for testing purpose. No difference to the hum, except if the amp it sits on a more solid surface, that seems to absorb some of the hum. As soon as it's moved to anything like an average desk, the hum becomes noticeable.
 
For reference I measured the background noise in the room at around 20dB. Sound probe 25-30cm away from the Rag, turning the amp on, I get a reading of 7-8dB added to ambient noise. My KGSSHV on the same surface is whisper quiet. It is very hard to notice any transformer noise even with my ear on the case.
 
Later update:
Firstly I am impressed with the Schiit Tech support response time. 
Question answered: Hum a half a meter away? Totally normal.
 
I will find a place for the Rag further away from my listening spot.

I am surprised to hear that the hum is normal.
 
I have my Rag sitting on my rickety desk about 18" from me and I cannot hear any noise at all. It's totally silent. Well, at least much quieter than the fan on my desktop computer. I can put my ear about 1" away from the side or front of the amp and I hear nothing. If it wasn't for the heat, I don't think I could tell if it was on or not.
 
Also, I have a bunch of computers and other electronics plugged into the same AC circuit as the Rag, so assume the AC line is noisy, but it doesn't seem to affect the Rag.

 

[negura]

In my case there are several factors here. I recently silenced my PC which was the only noise source in the room. Was my PC rocking at around 40-45dB as before, I would probably not hear the Rag with the PC on. And the PC is on most of the time. Other than that my neck of the woods has very low ambient noise levels, most of the time. So the Rag becomes quite noticeable when no music is playing and where it is currently placed at about 50-60cms away from me. I figured placing it on the floor on an isolation platform reduces the hum noise to a more acceptable level. But as opposed to my speaker amp (which is dead silent for the matter, like my other amps) it has no remote control, so a compromise needs to be found in regards to placement.
 
Anyway for me it's sound quality that comes first, second and third, so that is what matters. Work in progress to assess...