[SashimiWu]

Also really digging the impressions.  Is there by any chance a writeup of the Amperex 6922's?  Those are the ones I am most curious to try (along with the 7308's).

 

[neoluddite]

Good gracious.. I am an idiot.. I forgot to post the Amperex 6922 notes.. will do that ASAP.. the twists and turns with the Mullards got me distracted..  
Apologies to all

 

[Guidostrunk]

Just wanted to throw out some suggestions.
As winders mentioned, CCa's are some tubes to consider. Anything from Siemens, Telefunken, and Valvo(Heerlen 50's to early 70's,or late 50's Eindhoven) are some of the best tubes out there. Most of my friends ,especially TK, posts some awesome deals on the lyr thread if you're looking to save some cash.

You can also seek out some Valvo E188CC's, from Heerlen Holland(late 50's to early 70's).
I'll be posting a lot in this thread soon, once my wallet recovers from purchasing the MJ2, HEX, and my Theta Pro Generation V. I do believe that they'll be differences with the MJ2 , over the lyr, as far as sq, and preferences go.

Happy rolling folks!
Cheers

 

[neoluddite]

Listening Comments on Amperex 6922 D-getter White Labels
 

 
 
First, my apologies to the community – I should have posted this one before the previous post on the Mullards – the references to the Amperex in that write-up would make little sense.  Beg your collective pardon.  My comparative points, below, will be based on listening to these tubes (e.g. the Amperex) AFTER the Philips Miniwatts and BEFORE the Mullards (because that is the order my personal notes are written in)
 

 
 
The Amperex 6922 D-getters are – so far – my favorite tube.  They are a great pleasure to listen to as they convey the music to my ears in a silky, smooth and warm manner without over-emphasis I can notice.  And, for me, best of all, the treble is well controlled and not hot, even on tracks that are bright and sibilant to start with.
 
The Philips Miniwatts (mentioned earlier) brought me “new sounds, not heard before.” These Amperex also brought me new sounds above and beyond the Philips Miniwatts.
 
Soundstage – Wider, Deeper
 
I suspect the new sounds are attributable to the great sound stage presented.  These tubes have a wider and deeper sound stage than the preceding tubes (Black Sables, Gold Lions, Philips Miniwatts) and even the Mullards which were reported out of sequence.
 
The Amperex seemed to better unpack and place the instruments compared to the other tubes.  There was a great sense of space among instruments, they sounded as if they were generally fixed in auditory space and not wandering in position, or if they did, they were not moving in a muddled way.  In "Sailing to Philadelphia" the separations in the strings and guitars were more evident allowing me to feel like I was “hearing more” because it was more discernably presented. “On Every Street” by Dire Straits was more open and immersive and the layered male and female vocals in “Tubthumping” were a bit more distinct and pleasant.  “The Gambler” offered some new exposure to banjo and steel guitar sounds in the right channel not heard before.  In “Ventura Highway” the brush work on the cymbals was more clearly presented and the metal string picking sounded as if the instruments were just a few arms length’s away.
 
“Air and Simple Gifts” presented the most dramatic example of soundstage compared to the other prior tubes (and even the succeeding Mullards).  The opening few minutes brings in the cello, violin, clarinet and piano in different stages.  The positions are distinct and localized with great space L/R and F/B.  Once all the instruments begin playing, it is as if they are having a conversations and the positions begin to shift – call me nuts – as if the instruments were dancing around one another.  Any such phenomenon must be in the magic of the mixing and the phase angles accorded the different tracks, not a direct function of the tubes.  However, these tubes were the first to let me hear this very pleasant sound.
 
Vocals
 
The tubes handled male and female voices better.  Both were NOT lost in the music as seemed to happen on some tracks with prior tubes.  I prefer the vocalist to be positioned before the instruments, or surrounded and above the instruments.  I do not care for situations where the lead vocalist seems masked behind the instruments.  The Amperex presented to voices where I felt they should be.  In “Dixie Flyer” Randy Newman was more clearly articulated.  There is a passage “… old mother came to the station…” that was very difficult to hear clearly with other tubes.  The Amperex unpacked the sound enough to hear it and the tonal treatment of the rapidly shifting voice was such that you clearly understand it.  Really a nice handling of a tricky part of a song.
 
Roy Orbison’s voice in “Pretty Woman” had a tremolo or warbling I had not really noticed before, so that was a nice find.
 
Female vocals were handled equally well:  Tracy Thorn in “Downtown Train” sounded best on these tubes; Sarah Menescale’s sibilance in “Game of Love” was FINALLY tamed by the Amperex.  Tina Turner’s voice presented as “being here,” but seemed a tad bright, but not enough to cause me to tweak the volume.
 
 
Bass Observations
 
The bass was firm and crisp, but not overpowering.  It was that kind of bass that makes you want to run up the volume it sound so nice.  Piano key strikes were crisp and clean with subsequent natural decay.  The clarinet in both “Rhapsody in Blue” and in “Air and Simple Gifts” was warm and rounded, not edgy as it could be in prior experiences.
 
Jacques Rouvier’s presentation of Mussorgsky’s “Great Gate of Kiev” was the best sounding presentation – so far- for all the tubes listened to.  By 7:20 into the piece, you just want to crawl inside the piano and have those glorious lower and lowest notes shake your bones.  “Rider’s on the Storm” offers several gorgeous tonal waterfalls – from high to low – that are equally magnificently presented.  I guess if a component is raising goosebumps and sending shivers down the spine, it is a pretty darned good component:  these tubes were doing that for me.
 
Treble Observations
 
I did not encounter any nasty brightness that seem to characterize the Black Sables or the Gold Lions.  Those songs the Philips Miniwatts almost tamed were pleasant and listenable on the Amperex.  Even the Mullards sounded a bit brightier and airier than the Amperex (maybe that is a way of saying the Amperex have a bit more warmth and bass bias while still offering a better sound stage and separation than the Mullards).
 
In “Jazz at the Pawnshop” (yes, I know it is an oft hated album in various forums, but I like it, so get over it

), at 5 minutes into "Limehouse Blues," there are some drumstick percussion sounds (tapping edge of drum kit or stand) that I had not noticed so nicely rendered in prior listenings.   The vibraphone and clarinet in “I’m Confessin’” were simply magnificent and I could have listened to those sounds for hours…
 
Observation vis a vis the Mullards
 
The Mullards were like a scalpel exposing flaws in music.  The Amperex did not sound that way, despite superior unpacking and placing of the sound stage: they always presented the music in a very appealing way.  The Mullards are not bad tubes, but given a preference between the Mullards and the Amperex Amperex wins.
 
 
 
Overall Comment
 
Of the four tubes listened to previously and of the five tubes (including the subsequent Mullards), these Amperex are my favorites.  I could not find a piece of music where some characteristic caused me to say “Ouch, turn that down.”  These are “easy listening tubes” for me; they presented music in a way that many times it felt like the “I was there,” and I don't mean “air guitar."
 
I am very happy I have found the Amperex.  They are totally groovy.
 
 
What's next????........
 
Now in break-in are 1960's O-getter 7308 E188CC Mazda RTC Miniwatts and after those some 1960's Philips Valvo CCa (Holland) 6922's 
 
Once all those are listened to, I will need to reconcile my favorite top three and hope to make some intelligent comparative comments.
 

 

[neoluddite]

Just wanted to throw out some suggestions.
As winders mentioned, CCa's are some tubes to consider. Anything from Siemens, Telefunken, and Valvo(Heerlen 50's to early 70's,or late 50's Eindhoven) are some of the best tubes out there. Most of my friends ,especially TK, posts some awesome deals on the lyr thread if you're looking to save some cash.

You can also seek out some Valvo E188CC's, from Heerlen Holland(late 50's to early 70's).
I'll be posting a lot in this thread soon, once my wallet recovers from purchasing the MJ2, HEX, and my Theta Pro Generation V. I do believe that they'll be differences with the MJ2 , over the lyr, as far as sq, and preferences go.

Happy rolling folks!
Cheers

@ Guidostrunk
 
Many thanks for the suggestions.  Another reader has urged me to try the Siemens and the Telefunken tubes too.  Just need to find a willing lender here in my area as CPA's are just too darned expensive to simply experiment with.  
 
I will keep an eye on the Lyr thread, so thanks for that also.

 

[Guidostrunk]

Here's a great price on a nice set of tubes, if you're looking to dabble in the upper echelon of tubes. These aren't the extreme upper tier, but these will open eyes for sure. Especially if your budget is under $100.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/838703/rare-siemens-7308-e188cc-equivalent-3-tubes-gold-pin-tubes

 

[neoluddite]

Thank you Sir

 

[SashimiWu]

Great impressions @neoluddite
 
I'll be receiving my Mjolnir 2 today with Gungnir Multibit.  I decided to go with some Amperex 6922's after doing a lot of reading and a large part of that was due to your impressions of them.  They seem to give me exactly what I want in having a smooth/slightly warm but still detailed sound with great staging and I hope to try them out soon with my HD800 and Eikon.

 

[neoluddite]

Congratulations on buying the equipment. I believe you will enjoy it very much. This is my second pair of Mjolnir2 and Gungnir MB; the first set was almost three years ago . I sold that pair when moving back to USA from overseas. Too much headache shipping back and changing power supplies.

Use the xlr connections between the two devices and get yourself a decent quality usb cable from computer to DAC. Avoid going through a USB hub if you can. iMac USB ports seem to have enough power to input directly into the DAC. Mac laptop, sadly, needed the a powered USB port.

I hope you like the Amperex. They are so pleasant to my ear. Given all I had read about Mullards, I had expected a greater affinity for them. Now, to my ears, the Sennheiser headphones have huge soundstage, yet were a bit brighter than I prefer. I do hope the Amperec 6922 are enjoyable for you and that my comments are not too far off from your own findings.

Oh, don't be afraid to try the LISSTs. They sounded really good in my first set up.

Happy unpacking

 

[SashimiWu]

Congratulations on buying the equipment. I believe you will enjoy it very much. This is my second pair of Mjolnir2 and Gungnir MB; the first set was almost three years ago . I sold that pair when moving back to USA from overseas. Too much headache shipping back and changing power supplies.

Use the xlr connections between the two devices and get yourself a decent quality usb cable from computer to DAC. Avoid going through a USB hub if you can. iMac USB ports seem to have enough power to input directly into the DAC. Mac laptop, sadly, needed the a powered USB port.

I hope you like the Amperex. They are so pleasant to my ear. Given all I had read about Mullards, I had expected a greater affinity for them. Now, to my ears, the Sennheiser headphones have huge soundstage, yet were a bit brighter than I prefer. I do hope the Amperec 6922 are enjoyable for you and that my comments are not too far off from your own findings.

Oh, don't be afraid to try the LISSTs. They sounded really good in my first set up.

Happy unpacking

 
Thanks for the kind words.  I already have a set of XLR cables but sadly am forced to use USB for the time being until I can upgrade my personal computer.
 
I also only currently have a pair of the LISSTs with the package since I opted out of the stock tubes but hope to get the Amperex 6922's sometime next week.  I will definitely see how the two compare and see if your impressions match mine.

 

[neoluddite]

Well, let us know when you start flowing electrons

 

[econaut]

Got my MJ2 today and I am very happy with Utopia and LISST. Big improvement tonality-wise in comparison to my former Jotunheim.
 
Another thing worth considering: Try out connecting the Gumby via BNC or Coax, since USB apparently sucks for audio.

 

[Charente]

  Got my MJ2 today and I am very happy with Utopia and LISST. Big improvement tonality-wise in comparison to my former Jotunheim.
 
Another thing worth considering: Try out connecting the Gumby via BNC or Coax, since USB apparently sucks for audio.

Congrats... I got mine today as well. USB can be problematic. I invested quite heavily on the USB source and went down the microRendu route. Expensive, for sure, but it does give a good, clean signal. Sounds great on the GMB/MJ2 even tho' not warmed up enough yet. And who knows...thie Schiit EITR may be a USB solution that might make you USB-Happy. 

 
 
EDIT: Back on topic... my initial impressions are that the LISST are better suited to the MJ2 than the LYR2, which I also have. I'm using them to run-in but couldn't resist a listen. I detect more smoothness, a better 'weightiness', a slightly better stage as in instrument separation, possibly not much wider or deeper.. but more precise. That may be a limitation of the headphones I'm using. This is only after about 6 hours, so early days yet. Tubes to try yet...but not for a few days.

 

[econaut]

Thank you so much for mentioning the Eitr. Hadn't heard of it before! Originally I wanted to get a Lynx Aes16e these days, but now I will wait for Eitr, of course.
 
BTT: My link to some interesting tube recommendations for MJ2 got deleted by a mod, because links to another forum are not allowed here for whatever reason. Well, I hope it is allowed to suggest to use a search engine of your choice and search for best amps for the Sennheiser HD800 in the year 2017. Some say, post #66 is particularly interesting.

 

[neoluddite]

Greetings Mjolnir2 tube enthusiasts! It is time to write about my experiences with the Mazda 7308 Miniwatts (1966/8, large halo getters).

This process of comparing and evaluating tubes is becoming tricky. One of the challenges I am finding is NOT talking myself into hearing a “difference” just because there might be one when listening to a new pair of tubes. Sometimes it is hard to "just listen." Secondly, I seriously doubt my aural memory is perfect, so I find myself having to go back to a prior set of tubes to compare to see if I am really hearing a difference or am I just full of baloney. Lastly, I am also finding that really good tubes are very unkind to the recordings produced by bad sound and recording engineers: bad always sounds BAD.


With the above gentle warnings, let’s move on to the next tube in the process: The Mazda Miniwatt 7308 (1966/8 large halo getter) that I tooled around with for ~140 hours before listening to critically. I let these break in a little longer because I kept hoping their voice would warm.


Physically, these tubes had an interesting feature: the top of the heaters channels was closed off rather than open as is the case in all my other tubes. Does this mean anything acoustically? I have not the foggiest idea, yet I thought the makers must have had some reason to go to the extra effort of having a metal tab folded over the top of the heater shield. If anyone has any ideas, let me know (protecting the dilithium crystals does not count).


There is one other technical wonky difference with these tubes: the transconductance is about 20% below that of all my other tubes. If I understand the basic tube electrical theory I have read, the lower transconductance means, for a fixed plate resistance (on the amp’s circuit board), then the gain of the tube will be 20% lower too, meaning you will need about 25% more input signal for the same output signal. Now, I don't have a sound meter for my headphones, but I did notice having to keep the volume knob higher most of the time. Heh, this is a highly accurate and standardized process, right ?


Perhaps the simplest summary is to say the Mazdas are similar in voice to the Philips SQ E88C Miniwatts I wrote about earlier. The Mazdas are not harsh, but modestly bright. They have an open and airy top end and, I suspect if I had a frequency spectrum analyzer, they probably have a frequency profile that is ruler flat in the low end and midrange (rather than positively biased low and mid-rangeI like). While I have not yet listened to any Siemens or Telefunken tubes, I have been told they have a similar sound (neutral low and mid range and an open upper end).


Sound Stage
The front-back sound stage is terrific and instruments are unpacked beautifully in space. The right-left sound stage is not, in my opinion, as wide as the Amperex 6922 I wrote up earlier. Nonetheless, the Mazda’s have a very real and pleasant sound stage. The airiness causes the sound stage to be more open (like a bandshell) and less colored by the surroundings. My preference, though, is for a warmer, enclosed clubby sound.


The sense of space and airiness, to me, makes many vocalists shrink back away and into the music rather than stand before the instrumental layers. I like the vocalists to be more dominant.. it is why they are singing as the pieces are not instrumentals. On “I’m Confessin’ “ on Jazz at The Pawn Shop, the clarinet sounded as if it was moving backward and forward as if the musician was rocking and swaying as he/she played.

Highs and Treble Range
The upper half of the frequency spectrum was absolutely crystal clear and clinically revealing. Guitar picks on Steely Dan, Mark Knopfler and Dire Straits sounded as the instruments do at a live performance. Cymbal and stick noises were more noticeable adding a sense of ambiance. On Dylan’s “Along the Watchtower,” I heard for the first time what sounded like his voice overdriving the recording microphone or amp. There is a second or two in the early parts where his voice takes on that brittle raspy sound I associate with ripped tweeters and overdriven speakers. It was just an instant of the sound that I had not noticed on the other tubes.


Ida Sands in “Bang Bang” even sounded a little restrained, though upon listening a few times I think it is simply the airiness that takes away some resonance that made her voice sound more “cocktail club” intimate on the other tubes.

Midrange and Bass Range
On the lower half of the frequency range, the bass was always there, crisply delivered, yet it lacked the gutsy punch I like. Kodo Drummers suffered from this as those drums will shake your chest when played. George Winston’s Steinway in Riders on the Storm began to sound much more like a cliché Steinway than on the other tubes. The rendering of the key strikes and the high-frequency detail was great, but the bass note keys and chords were lacking the substance I like. Yet, the tubes were not unpleasant and were certainly nicer than some of the early tubes I listened to. The Amperex 6922's and even the Mullard RTC E188C's had a bas treatment that sounded better to my ear.

Wrap Up
Overall, the Mazda’s are a really nice tube. A pair of warm-voiced headphones would be great with them. I can listen and enjoy them, but my favorites still are the Amperex 6922. A bright set of headphones with these tubes would, to me, be very unappealing. These tubes in this amp with Sennheiser HD800's would not be such a great mix I believe.

Next on the review list: 1968&69 Amperex Valvo CCa. Already warming up and they sound pretty nice, but at least 10 days before time for critical listening.