[ThurstonX]

I know you've answered my questions about codes before but just to be sure... are tubes labeled as delta 7L* (for E88CC) and VR* (for E188CC) always the same (assuming they have the same change code) regardless of brand label? Or does this only hold true for the Philips and Valvo branded ones?

 
You've confused it a bit by saying "delta 7L*", because the "delta" is the factory code for Heerlen, Holland.  7L is the tube type code for E88CC (6922 in the US), and VR the tube type code for E188CC (7308 in the US).  Tube type codes, at least for manufacturers who follow the Philips standard, will be the same regardless of the factory.  Siemens, Telefunken, the Brits, used their own systems.  It's not difficult to find the equivalent types (simple google-fu will get it done).  For example, E88CC = CV2492 in the UK.  The * you note is best described as the change or revision code, progressing from '1' through '9', then switches to letters.
 
With that corrected, you're on the right path.  Assuming you've found the type of tube you're interested in, the factory code is the next most important.  While you could mix the same tube types from different factories, I imagine most people in this thread would not recommend it.  Can't hurt to try, but I think any potential gain would be outweighed by having to compare the various combinations to determine any differences you might hear.  Thus, it's easiest to get pairs matched at the very least by type and factory.
 
You can get pickier from there, trying to get pairs from the same change code (e.g., 7L4), and then the same year.  What's more important than that are finding tubes that come close to matching electrically.  That, of course, opens a rather large can of worms.  Do you trust the results of the seller, assuming any are provided?  Do you have a tester?  Should you invest in one?
 
Thus, the rabbit hole.
 
So, just try to stick to the same type, factory, and if you think it matters, within the same change code.  I know some people herein will tell you some of their favorite pairs come from years apart, and thus from different change codes.  I'm not in a position to argue with them, as I'm pretty sure mine all match.
 
Hope that helps.
 
LOL, forgot to say... the printed label is irrelevant.  Codes codes codes.  If you've got a 1963 Heerlen E88CC with a printed label that says "Valvo", and another 1963 Heerlen E88CC with a printed label that says "Philips Miniwatt", there is zero difference between those two tubes, save for any test results.

 

[nightsky87]

You've confused it a bit by saying "delta 7L*", because the "delta" is the factory code for Heerlen, Holland.  7L is the tube type code for E88CC (6922 in the US), and VR the tube type code for E188CC (7308 in the US).  Tube type codes, at least for manufacturers who follow the Philips standard, will be the same regardless of the factory.  Siemens, Telefunken, the Brits, used their own systems.  It's not difficult to find the equivalent types (simple google-fu will get it done).  For example, E88CC = CV2492 in the UK.  The * you note is best described as the change or revision code, progressing from '1' through '9', then switches to letters.

With that corrected, you're on the right path.  Assuming you've found the type of tube you're interested in, the factory code is the next most important.  While you could mix the same tube types from different factories, I imagine most people in this thread would not recommend it.  Can't hurt to try, but I think any potential gain would be outweighed by having to compare the various combinations to determine any differences you might hear.  Thus, it's easiest to get pairs matched at the very least by type and factory.

You can get pickier from there, trying to get pairs from the same change code (e.g., 7L4), and then the same year.  What's more important than that are finding tubes that come close to matching electrically.  That, of course, opens a rather large can of worms.  Do you trust the results of the seller, assuming any are provided?  Do you have a tester?  Should you invest in one?

Thus, the rabbit hole.

So, just try to stick to the same type, factory, and if you think it matters, within the same change code.  I know some people herein will tell you some of their favorite pairs come from years apart, and thus from different change codes.  I'm not in a position to argue with them, as I'm pretty sure mine all match.

Hope that helps.

LOL, forgot to say... the printed label is irrelevant.  Codes codes codes.  If you've got a 1963 Heerlen E88CC with a printed label that says "Valvo", and another 1963 Heerlen E88CC with a printed label that says "Philips Miniwatt", there is zero difference between those two tubes, save for any test results.

Oh, looks like I didn't make my statement clear. I meant delta-factory coded ones with VR and 7L type.

But yeah, you pretty much answered my question so thanks!!!

 

[sikki-six]

I've decided to try some new tubes for my Lyr 2 (with LCD-2.1, HD600). Right now I have the stock ones and LISSTs. The LISSTs are more bright to my ears, but not by a big stretch. Normally I'm a big fan of neutral amping, but what the heck - maybe it's time to check out some nicely tube-y and warm tubes too!
 
What are the best alternatives in the under 100 euro class overall? Is there a comparison somewhere? Orange Globes seem to get lots of mentions, are those typically over my price-range? Are there some good stores to buy tubes from in the EU?
 
Cheers guys!

 

[ThurstonX]

  I've decided to try some new tubes for my Lyr 2 (with LCD-2.1, HD600). Right now I have the stock ones and LISSTs. The LISSTs are more bright to my ears, but not by a big stretch. Normally I'm a big fan of neutral amping, but what the heck - maybe it's time to check out some nicely tube-y and warm tubes too!
 
What are the best alternatives in the under 100 euro class overall? Is there a comparison somewhere? Orange Globes seem to get lots of mentions, are those typically over my price-range? Are there some good stores to buy tubes from in the EU?
 
Cheers guys!

 
Blackburn "Mullard" ECC88s, if you can find them.  Early 1960s Heerlen ECC88s (often called "Bugle Boys" or "Amperex Bugle Boys" because of the logo) are a good bet, too.  The "Orange Globes" are just later 1960s (maybe early 1970s) Heerlen ECC88s.  My pair is OK, but I prefer the other two, at least for that "tubey" sound 

 

[Mediahound]

  I've decided to try some new tubes for my Lyr 2 (with LCD-2.1, HD600). Right now I have the stock ones and LISSTs. The LISSTs are more bright to my ears, but not by a big stretch. Normally I'm a big fan of neutral amping, but what the heck - maybe it's time to check out some nicely tube-y and warm tubes too!
 
What are the best alternatives in the under 100 euro class overall? Is there a comparison somewhere? Orange Globes seem to get lots of mentions, are those typically over my price-range? Are there some good stores to buy tubes from in the EU?
 
Cheers guys!

The LISST's are quite nice IMO and well-worth having. 
 
Of under $100 tubes, I keep coming back to the Orange Globes. They're slightly dark (although I've heard darker), which I like and they complement my HD800 S's well.  I've tried more expensive Amperex PQ tubes and didn't like them as much, they were less mid forward. 

 

[sikki-six]

Thanks guys!
 
I found an EU-store with lots of stuff that might hit the spot - do you see anything that strike your fancy?
http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/catalog.php?product_search=ecc88&language=en

 

[rnros]

 

http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/en/shop_Other_brands_OEM_Tubes_Preamp_doubletriodes/ECC88_6DJ8_Philips_Miniwatt_3804

Those ECC88 / 6DJ8 Miniwatts would be similar to Holland Amperex Bugle Boys. GAB ?5L3: If the ? is a delta then that's what it is. I believe the GA is the same for all the Holland 6DJ8s.
My '58 and '59 Bugle Boys are GA2. This are my favorite BBs by a large margin, esp. the '59s, not a fluke, I have three sets of '59 all the same. 58/59 are D getters. I also have some very good '60 and '61s (large O getter), different and not quite as good as the '59s. The price shown is a little less (by the pair) than I paid for the 58/59s, and much more than I paid for the 60/61s. (BTW, the later mid-60s 6DJ8/Bugle Boys have the smaller O getter as your linked tube has.)
 
6DJ8s are the least expensive of the three 6DJ8 types. 6DJ8/ECC88, 6922/E88CC, & 7308/E188CC. Priced in the same order as listed. Are 6922 and 7308 better tubes? A lot of people think so, but it depends on what you like and have experience with, and also your equipment. I do prefer 6922s and 7308s. To my ears, with my equipment, the 6DJ8 Amperex/Philips have more of a 'tubey' or liquid sound that some traditionally equate with tube amps, not necessarily a bad thing.
 
I think you can do better price-wise for that tube.

 

[oAmadeuso]

  I've decided to try some new tubes for my Lyr 2 (with LCD-2.1, HD600). Right now I have the stock ones and LISSTs. The LISSTs are more bright to my ears, but not by a big stretch. Normally I'm a big fan of neutral amping, but what the heck - maybe it's time to check out some nicely tube-y and warm tubes too!
 
What are the best alternatives in the under 100 euro class overall? Is there a comparison somewhere? Orange Globes seem to get lots of mentions, are those typically over my price-range? Are there some good stores to buy tubes from in the EU?
 
Cheers guys!

The cheapest you'll find will be eBay but buyer beware.
 
The best value tubes I have gotten have been from sellers on this forum.
Also there's posters in this thread that seem to hunt down good deals on eBay.

 

[sikki-six]

Thanks, I'm learning lots here
 
It seems my local guitar store here in Helsinki sells many kind of ECC88 tubes as well... The prices don't seem very competitive, though. 

 

[sikki-six]

  The cheapest you'll find will be eBay but buyer beware.
 
The best value tubes I have gotten have been from sellers on this forum.
Also there's posters in this thread that seem to hunt down good deals on eBay.

 
Yeah, I've checked out the german Ebay (because they have the same currency). 
 
I found a few ones that might fit the bill:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Pair-Amperex-6DJ8-ECC88-white-lettering-Holland-production-NOS-matched-/291705517699?hash=item43eb00f683:g:3UYAAOSwNSxVHD27
 
What's the difference vs:
 
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Pair-original-Amperex-6DJ8-ECC88-Bugle-BoyHolland-Heerlen-made-NOS-matched-/291705517684?hash=item43eb00f674:g:v6sAAOSw3KFWe7k2

 

[ThurstonX]

   
Yeah, I've checked out the german Ebay (because they have the same currency). 
 
I found a few ones that might fit the bill:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Pair-Amperex-6DJ8-ECC88-white-lettering-Holland-production-NOS-matched-/291705517699?hash=item43eb00f683:g:3UYAAOSwNSxVHD27
 
What's the difference vs:
 
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Pair-original-Amperex-6DJ8-ECC88-Bugle-BoyHolland-Heerlen-made-NOS-matched-/291705517684?hash=item43eb00f674:g:v6sAAOSw3KFWe7k2

 
I had to laugh at this from the first link: "same as E188CC, CCa, 7308, E88CC, 6922 etc. types" ... sure, electrically; half the life span, though.  Not a knock against ECC88s, just sayin'.  That's not a bad price for a matched pair from 1963, and they claim to have cleaned the pins and treated with DeoxIT Gold.  Nice touch.  This one, just to be clear: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Amperex-6DJ8-ECC88-white-lettering-Holland-production-NOS-matched-/291705517699
 
Ah, same seller, I see.  97 euros seems a little steep for the others.  The difference seems to be one year (can't be certain without the change code: GA???, since GA simply means ECC88), and slightly better test results on the more expensive pair.

 

[TK16]

Paying for the BB logo maybe?  My 61`s have the 2nd logo, they seemed to change the logo to the straight man logo 1 month later in the second set in 62? I would probably go with the cheaper set.

 

[TK16]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/272196581519
seller accepted my offer of 150 usd shipped for the quad.

 

[kolkoo]

So I've had my Telefunken E188CCs for one and a half weeks now and I've been rotating them with 3 pairs of HGs that are differently strong, 1 pair of Tungsram PCC88 and I have to say they are quite amazing tubes, really close to HGs, really similar sonics to me at least, a touch more bassy, a joy to listen to But I have to say Tungsram PCC88 yellow print also do not disappoint - really close to both HGs and Tele E188CCs and similarly sounding. Purely subjective rating would be HGs > Tele E188CC > Tungsram PCC88 where the margin between the Teles and the HGs is really small, and in fact on some days I prefer the Tele sound (for the fuller bass ).
 
So overall the Tungsram PCC88 are a great value for money provided they are properly matched and strong enough, it's important that they test strong in a 6.3V circuit as they are designed to run at 7V(7.3V?) and could test good at 7V but way worse in 6.3V (The lyr) which could diminish their sound qualities! So if you have a trusted source or a tester for 50$ per pair I think this is a really amazing value for money tube! As always YMMV. (Out the three tough the tungrams have the least impactful bass to my ears - still sounds nice but doesnt make you really feel it).
 
Back to HGs vs Teles - I do believe the HGs are a tad more musical to me and most of my "epic" songs make me feel more epic while listening to them with the HGs over the Teles but the difference is really neglectable, unfortunately the price is not... unless you score a deal!
 
 
Unrelated Edit: Had a minor heart attack after hearing some really quiet noise in the right channel, even after switching tubes with each other - still in the right channel, in the end it went away after cleaning the socket savers with the socket saver cleaner wire provided in the Vacuum Tube Survival kit... so lesson learned before putting in new tubes always clean the pins as well as you can... as little pieces of crap from the pins may remain in the sockets and they need to be cleaned afterwards! I used to do this then I got impatient so I kept inserting new tubes as I got them... will clean all of my good tubes now with isopropyl alcohol + deoxit gold!

 

[Oskari]

For your reading pleasure (unless you read Dutch), I've done a half-decent translation of the PDF on The Girls of Philips.  Head-Fi says I don't have permission to upload attachments, so here's the translation.

Enjoy 

[rule]
Original Document:
http://www.madeinmelon.nl/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Meisjes-van-Philips.pdf


A Rough Translation by ThurstonX

…

Oh noes! The original is no more. Did anybody save a copy? ThurstonX?