[Oskari]

  I know, so many great tubes to try.

 
I hear you but my comment was only about the spelling. I'm such an ass. 

 
VosKHod.
 
PhiLips, SiemEns, …

 

[rb2013]

   
I hear you but my comment was only about the spelling. I'm such an ass. 

 
VosKHod.
 
PhiLips, SiemEns, …

Thanks!  I'm so bad when it comes to typos!  I go back and reread and make corrections...but they still slip through (some things spell check doesn't catch).  They do bug me - so no worry in pointing them out - it's much appreciated!  This epic thread with over 140,000 views is part of tube history.  So I would like to have my spelling correct.  

 

[rb2013]

   
If these Amperex USN CEP 6922 white labels have a neutral sound like the HGs, do they still have that euphonic Amperex house sound, like (what I hear) the Bugle Boys have?

Just a hint of the euphonic Amperex sound - kind of like a subtle seasoning. I've noticed the very best of each family tend to converge on a wonderfully natural, tonally rich, deeply detailed sound.  Just go about it from a slightly different perspective. They're all fun to listen to - and if you want superb sound but just want to change things up a bit - really nice to have them all in the collection.  What makes tube equipment so versatile. 

 
For me the big outliers are the 1950's Amperex Pinch Waist 6922 D getters - they sound so different.  Uber, Uber Amperex euphonic - missing a layer of detail as compared to the '60s USN-CEPs, 60's Tele E88CC, '74 6n23p Relektor SWGP.  Maybe two layers compared to the 6n23p '75 HG's, as they are the most detailed and revealing 6922 type tube I have heard.  But the PWs do something that even the HGs' don't - just a unique presentation to vocals.  Not natural, but really fun despite that.  Think of 300b SET tonal richness.  And very, very copious bass.  Not as defined or balanced as the others - just loads of it.  Not a tube I would listen to consistently - unless I had a very bright system.  Or unless I liked liquid chocolate dripping all over my sound. They would be fun to have in the collection for occasional listening if they weren't so darn expensive at $500+/pr.  

 
The Siemens CCa Gray Shield early '60s are also similarly great tubes, again with a subtle amount of the Siemens house sound.  Very detailed, a bit treble rich in balance, great sound staging, etc...

 

[Brycicles]

How would you say the USN CEP sounds in comparison to a Amperex white PQ 6922? They are very close in price. 

 

[stjj89]

  Just a hint of the euphonic Amperex sound - kind of like a subtle seasoning. I've noticed the very best of each family tend to converge on a wonderfully natural, tonally rich, deeply detailed sound.  Just go about it from a slightly different perspective. They're all fun to listen to - and if you want superb sound but just want to change things up a bit - really nice to have them all in the collection.  What makes tube equipment so versatile. 

 
For me the big outliers are the 1950's Amperex Pinch Waist 6922 D getters - they sound so different.  Uber, Uber Amperex euphonic - missing a layer of detail as compared to the '60s USN-CEPs, 60's Tele E88CC, '74 6n23p Relektor SWGP.  Maybe two layers compared to the 6n23p '75 HG's, as they are the most detailed and revealing 6922 type tube I have heard.  But the PWs do something that even the HGs' don't - just a unique presentation to vocals.  Not natural, but really fun despite that.  Think of 300b SET tonal richness.  And very, very copious bass.  Not as defined or balanced as the others - just loads of it.  Not a tube I would listen to consistently - unless I had a very bright system.  Or unless I liked liquid chocolate dripping all over my sound. They would be fun to have in the collection for occasional listening if they weren't so darn expensive at $500+/pr.  

 
The Siemens CCa Gray Shield early '60s are also similarly great tubes, again with a subtle amount of the Siemens house sound.  Very detailed, a bit treble rich in balance, great sound staging, etc...

 
Thanks for the advice Bob. I just pulled the trigger on a pair of '60s Amperex 6DJ8 White Labels from mercedesman, which are apparently the same as the Bugle Boys. I'm looking forward to trying out the euphonic sound signature and seeing if it works for me! If a 1950s' Pinch Waist 6922 D Getter comes along my way some time...I might just be tempted...

 

[rb2013]

  How would you say the USN CEP sounds in comparison to a Amperex white PQ 6922? They are very close in price. 

Many say the white print PQs are generally the same tube as the USN-CEPs.  Made in the USA.  But for me I've aways preferred the USN-CEP.  I've had the 7308 and 6922 version of the USNs.  They sound the same to me, I read somewhere were folks preferred the sound of the 6922 version.  Of course the 7308 and 6922 are equivilant tubes.
 
From Upscale on the '60 Amperex 6992 White Print USA:
 

"PRODUCT DESCRIPTION

Amperex "PQ" 6922 - Super super rare gold pin 6922 with tall bottle made in 1960.  In 1961 they started using a slightly shorter bottle. Still a very cool and highly sought-after tube. The "tall bottle" version is more money.  Not because it's better.  Because it's rare.  Don't fall into this stupid ******** that "Older and rarer is better"  The very first 6922's made by Amperex had a piched waist and they're horrible quality.  90% of them are microphonic, and if they aren't now they will be in a few months.  I'll write something up on this in our "Buying tips" section. 
A quick note about this tube: Many of the earliest vintages of 6922 tubes were sensitive to vibration. This means that if you use them in your preamp or phonostage, they may go "TING!" when you flip switches or tap on the preamp. Understand this is normal."

He charges $340/pr for the '60 tall body version.
 
The 7308  USN-CEPs are written up on the Brent Jesse website as:
 

"7308:

This is probably the ultra 6DJ8 type tube commonly available. It has all of the features of the 6922, but the triode sections are also matched to each other, and the tubes all fit within very tight specifications. Therefore, any 7308 should match any other 7308 within the same brand. The Amperex versions were again made in New York, complete with gold pins, and often have a number etched into the side of the glass. Amperex made these for industry as well as the military. The Amperex versions have the PQ label, the military type usually is labeled "USN-CEP", but I have seen versions made for Stromberg-Carlson and Hewlett-Packard, with white ink labels. These all had the numbers etched into the glass, and all are the same tube. The USA made military white label types have been rated "Best of All", over other 7308, 6922 and even Cca tubes, in several well-documented 6922/7308/Cca listening tests. Therefore this particular type is becoming scarce and prices are rising. There were a few of these made in Holland, but most were made in the USA, therefore the Holland tubes are RARE and usually command a higher price. The Holland PQ versions have the PQ with stars on either side of the letters, and the words "Premium Quality", where the USA types have the PQ inside of a shield logo. Again, there are some nice vintage USA made standard pin military and industrial types available from Raytheon and Sylvania, just to name a few, and these are quite good at a price currently far below the European vintage labels. Finally, Philips (the parent company of Amperex) owned a number of tube brands, and many were never seen outside of Europe. Most were actually made in the same Heerlen, Holland factory that turned out the Bugleboy 6DJ8 and PQ 6922 Amperex. Watch for tubes labeled E188CC with brands like Valvo, R/T, RTC, Miniwatt, Dario, Philips, and Adzam. These tubes are identical to the Amperex PQ and Philips SQ (Special Quality) types more often found in America, and are perfect if the Amperex label is not available. Also rare in America are these same brands made at the Philips-owned Mazda factory (La Radiotechnique) in Suresnes, France. These usually have a capital "F" in the second line of the date code. They are sweet like the Holland tubes, with a bit better detail and punch at the top end, and still have nice balanced warmth. We are one of the very few worldwide tube dealers to offer these rare NOS French Philips tubes. Finally, watch for Siemens or Telefunken German made 7308 tubes, most having the E188CC label in white, with the Telefunken having the distinctive diamond shape in the bottom glass. Siemens are usually more plentiful, and a huge savings over their Cca tubes."
 

 
Here are the tubes I bought for $110/pr: 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/151470965850?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 
Here are the Amperex PQ White Shield 6922s.  
 

Any of these would be excellent tubes to have in a collection.
 
To me the PQ Orange Shield USA are not in the same league sound wise.

 
 
Hope that helps!
 
Cheers!
 

 

[rb2013]

   
Thanks for the advice Bob. I just pulled the trigger on a pair of '60s Amperex 6DJ8 White Labels from mercedesman, which are apparently the same as the Bugle Boys. I'm looking forward to trying out the euphonic sound signature and seeing if it works for me! If a 1950s' Pinch Waist 6922 D Getter comes along my way some time...I might just be tempted...

Happy Rolling!

 

[billerb1]

Great write-up Bob. I'm a big fan of the American-made white print 7308 PQ's. Have a pair of '60 D-Getters and '65 O-Getters. Both incredibly revealing pairs, with surprisingly wide but strong at the edges sound stage presentation. Very "live" sounding tubes. A little less lush than my beloved Heerlen-made early 60's Philips Miniwatt E188CC SQ's and about 5 rows farther back in their overall presentation.
Gorgeous tubes.

 

[rb2013]

Great write-up Bob. I'm a big fan of the American-made white print 7308 PQ's. Have a pair of '60 D-Getters and '65 O-Getters. Both incredibly revealing pairs, with surprisingly wide but strong at the edges sound stage presentation. Very "live" sounding tubes. A little less lush than my beloved Heerlen-made early 60's Philips Miniwatt SQ's and about 5 rows farther back in their overall presentation.
Gorgeous tubes.

+1 Thanks!  I'm looking for a sweet pair of the Mullard CV2492s at a good price.  I think I found a pr.  These are much unrated tubes.  
 
The '75 6n23p's HGs are still my day in day out favorites.  I'm running four pairs now - the Lyr, two amps and my newly modded DAC.  Sounding truly glorious!
 
Cheers my friend!  Drink Well!
 

 

[billerb1]

+1 Thanks!  I'm looking for a sweet pair of the Mullard CV2492s at a good price.  I think I found a pr.  These are much unrated tubes.  

The '75 6n23p's HGs are still my day in day out favorites.  I'm running four pairs now - the Lyr, two amps and my newly modded DAC.  Sounding truly glorious!

Cheers my friend!  Drink Well!

Might check with OldSkool on the Mullies if your deal on the CV2492 falls through. He is the Mullard King and may be interested. Then again, he may not.

 

[rb2013]

Might check with OldSkool on the Mullies if your deal on the CV2492 falls through. He is the Mullard King and may be interested. Then again, he may not.

Thanks!

 

[billerb1]

I

Thanks!

.
I used to have a pair of the Mullard CV4109's. Wish I would have hung onto them for the thicker, "tubier" signature I just started running with my WA2. The really good Mullies are a whole other ballgame for smooth texture. Not the most detailed tube in the world but perfect if you're looking for that Mrs. Butterworth sound.
Thick and rich.

 

[rb2013]

I
.
I used to have a pair of the Mullard CV4109's. Wish I would have hung onto them for the thicker, "tubier" signature I just started running with my WA2. The really good Mullies are a whole other ballgame for smooth texture. Not the most detailed tube in the world but perfect if you're looking for that Mrs. Butterworth sound.
Thick and rich.

Yeah that's fun sometimes.  Oozing chocolate fudge kinda sound.  The antithesis of the Siemens house sound. And way cheaper then the Ampy PWs. 

 
 
 
Edit - The CV2492's received good marks on the old thread - have fallen out of favor on this one.

 

[gibosi]

  Yeah that's fun sometimes.  Oozing chocolate fudge kinda sound.  The antithesis of the Siemens house sound. And way cheaper then the Ampy PWs. 

 
 
 
Edit - The CV2492's received good marks on the old thread - have fallen out of favor on this one.

 
Hey guys, we need to know the the production codes on these CV2492's. They may well be identical to the standard Mullard 6922. The paint on tubes matters little. The production codes will tell all.

 

[rb2013]

   
Hey guys, we need to know the the production codes on these CV2492's. They may well be identical to the standard Mullard 6922. The paint on tubes matters little. The production codes will tell all.

According to the Brent Jesse website Mullard followed the European convention.  So the same rules for the pre-55 56 and post.  http://www.audiotubes.com/mullcode.htm
 

 Most Amperex, Mullard, Philips and Valvo tubes are marked with a group of symbols which contain coded information relating to the type, place of manufacture or country of origin, and the date of manufacture.

 There were two types of code formats that used the same tube type codes, which were in use from 1948 until these companies stopped the manufacture of standard receiving tubes. The code format changed about 1955 or 1956. There are some deviations to this rule, and in certain manufacturing plants not all of the code protocol was followed exactly, with every batch of tubes. Prior to 1955, Mullard used a purely numerical code for encoding the tube type, but then adopted the code change as listed here after that. Therefore, for tubes made after 1955 by all three of these large European manufacturers, the code is fairly uniform and straightforward to decipher using these code lists

For example on these the legendary "L" Codes. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mullard-CV-2492-pair-High-Emission-replacement-for-6922-or-E88CC-CCa-ECC88-/111488697970?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item19f53e8672
 
So It looks like these were made at the Mullard plant in Mitchem in 1979, June Batch 3 and 5.  I think that's the way you read it.
 
Serials:

7LI R9F3 KB-D

7LI R9F5 KB-D