[billerb1]

I assume you mean "younger" tubes (i.e., from 1973).  See the above post.  They'll sound subtly different 

Seriously though, they could sound better, if the older, 1960s tubes are nearing end of life, or have some other internal problem.  There's the rub.  So what to do?  Pick a type and factory you want to try, and look for the best deal.  There's always an element of chance.  The point is, a Heerlen E88CC from 1963 should at least sound similar to one from 1973, assuming the same basic construction.  That's esp. true if you've never heard one at all.  The only person you should believe who's going to tell you that one pair sounds different or better than another is you.  Gets to be a costly proposition without a sensible buying and collecting plan.

So we arrive back at the basics: pick a type, a factory, and look for a good deal.

Personally, I'd look for tubes from the '60s, but that's me.  I have pairs from the '70s and they sound fine.  But if I'm paying premium $$$, I want an older tube that tests just as well as the pair from the '70s, esp. on the off chance that I later want to sell said pair.  That's why it's important to know how to identify tubes by their various codes.

+1

 

[oAmadeuso]

Won these bad boys http://www.ebay.com/itm/361520647005 .




Ever since the yellow's discussion and me Listening again to my Red Valvo '62 Heerlen E88CCs vs my Philips E88CC '66 and the valvos blowing them out of the water even tough the Philipses have better matching and are stronger, I decided I want to hear more Valvo tubes - so if I find any deals I'm gonna jump on them

Will keep you guys posted.. I've accumulated quite a few tubes now, might start selling off my stash in the classifieds soon keep a lookout if you're interested.

 




Just to clarify (and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) Heerlen E88CC's (or E188CC's for that matter) labeled Philips or Valvo are the exact same tube. Of course there will be the usual unique sound differences from tube to tube (and certainly version and date differences) as there would be when you would compare Philips pairs vs Philips pairs or Valvo pairs vs Valvo pairs.

If you are intent on seeing the Valvo print on your tube and you want the Heerlen version, make sure you check the code for the delta symbol. Hamburg Valvos are designated with a "D" code.

 


Wow, speak of the devil...check these Heerlen Valvo 1959 7L4 D-Getters . I've read in a few places that the 7L4's are tonally equivalent to the legendary Heerlen pinched waists (which ended with the 7L3 version). This could be a real steal...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-VALVO-E88CC-6922-RED-LABEL-D-GETTER-TUBES-7L4-CODE-EXCELLENT-EMISSIONS-/291719344185?hash=item43ebd3f039:g:V~MAAOSwxcRW9XD7

Put in a cheeky bid, thanks!
Been a while since I scored some new glass...

 

[ThurstonX]

Tony, what's your take on the Valvo Hamburg/Valvo Herrlen comparison? I've only had one pair of Hamburg Valvo E88CC's and that particular pair was a bit brighter and had somewhat less blackness in the soundstage as compared to most of my Heerlens. But that was just one sample.

 
Any comparison at this point would be unfairly biased towards the Hamburgs, since that's what I've been rolling, and next up are the 1959 'D' getters from Hamburg.  I'd have to do a real back-to-back rolling session to say more.  That said, I like both.
 
These mid-60s Hamburg 'A' frame E88CCs have worked out really well, esp. as they approach 300 hours.  Plenty of everything (bass when it's called for, details, sound stage, imaging).  I don't have any Hamburg E88CCs with the traditional 'O' getter on a post.  The 'A' frames have the 'O' getter [correction: they use a closed disc getter] (getter flashing holder, to be more specific), but obviously supported on the 'A' frame, as opposed to the more traditional post (or bar) you see in the Heerlen construction.  I'm not sure about the Hamburg 'D' getters, but I reckon they use the post/bar support.
 
Maybe after comparing the three Hamburglers, I'll roll a pair of "standard" Heerlens from the early-to-mid 60s, then one of the 'A' frames again.  Then I could tell you.  Now you've got me thinking if I have a pair of 'D' getter E88CCs from Heerlen to put up against the Hamburg pair.

 

[billerb1]

Put in a cheeky bid, thanks!
Been a while since I scored some new glass...

Good luck my friend. Be ready with your finger on the trigger at the very end with your max bid. They'll jump for sure coming down the homestretch. The test results show some use so hopefully that'll keep the price down but they should be good and broken in and have plenty of life left in them.

 

[billerb1]

Any comparison at this point would be unfairly biased towards the Hamburgs, since that's what I've been rolling, and next up are the 1959 'D' getters from Hamburg.  I'd have to do a real back-to-back rolling session to say more.  That said, I like both.

These mid-60s Hamburg 'A' frame E88CCs have worked out really well, esp. as they approach 300 hours.  Plenty of everything (bass when it's called for, details, sound stage, imaging).  I don't have any Hamburg E88CCs with the traditional 'O' getter on a post.  The 'A' frames have the 'O' getter (getter flashing holder, to be more specific), but obviously supported on the 'A' frame, as opposed to the more traditional post (or bar) you see in the Heerlen construction.  I'm not sure about the Hamburg 'D' getters, but I reckon they use the post/bar support.

Maybe after comparing the three Hamburglers, I'll roll a pair of "standard" Heerlens from the early-to-mid 60s, then one of the 'A' frames again.  Then I could tell you.  Now you've got me thinking if I have a pair of 'D' getter E88CCs from Heerlen to put up against the Hamburg pair.

Lmao. Ask a silly question....

 

[rnros]

Will these older tubes sound any different from the earlier 60's tubes?

 

   
There's always an element of chance.  The point is, a Heerlen E88CC from 1963 should at least sound similar to one from 1973, assuming the same basic construction.  That's esp. true if you've never heard one at all.  The only person you should believe who's going to tell you that one pair sounds different or better than another is you.  Gets to be a costly proposition without a sensible buying and collecting plan.

+1 Exactly.
 I have a pair of 7LG delta3E4 Philips SQ E88CC, purchased as NOS. So, should be the same tube as the pair you're considering. They sound great. Natural, clean, all there, dynamic, nothing lacking, weak or distorted. (Gets to a point where you just don't know where you would improve it if you could.) Sound different than the '63s? Probably, but who cares, doesn't mean one is 'better' than the other.
Add'l info: This pair is matched triode to triode and tube to tube at less than 1%; one tube is slightly microphonic in one triode, the other is microphonic in both triodes (only when tapped or connected).
IMO Price is very good and seller has huge and near perfect feedback.

 

[ThurstonX]

  +1 Exactly.
 I have a pair of 7LG delta3E4 Philips SQ E88CC, purchased as NOS. So, should be the same tube as the pair you're considering. They sound great. Natural, clean, all there, dynamic, nothing lacking, weak or distorted. (Gets to a point where you just don't know where you would improve it if you could.) Sound different than the '63s? Probably, but who cares, doesn't mean one is 'better' than the other.
Add'l info: This pair is matched triode to triode and tube to tube at less than 1%; one tube is slightly microphonic in one triode, the other is microphonic in both triodes (only when tapped or connected).
IMO Price is very good and seller has huge and near perfect feedback.

 
I'll add to this that my 1960 'D' getter US-made Amperex E88CCs, and 1961 Heerlen 'O' getter E88CCs, both have hissing and buzzing problems that have not gone away with a couple hundred hours use on both.  As does a pair of 1970 Heerlen E88CCs... my three worst pairs.  My '57 pinched waist E88CCs are golden, as are a pair from 1961/1963 and another from 1963/1964 (all Heerlen E88CCs).  So, it's hit or miss.
 
That tempts me to bid on those '59 'D' getters, cuz I'm a glutton for punishment 

 

[mikoss]

IME:

Hamburg tubes are a cross between Philips Herleen and Siemens/Halske Munich, with a touch of American Amperex thrown in for good measure.

Overall a neutral tone, with a slight touch of Herleen warmth, but not quite as holographic midrange. Treble seems to be reminiscent of the Amperex * tubes... A bit rough to my ears; less refined than the E188CC Holland Miniwatt tubes.


I do enjoy the Hamburgs for their unique sound, but personally I would rank them fourth or fifth on my list. Above the Russian tubes which I've always found unweildly unfocused, but below a nice pair of Holland Miniwatts, a set of grey shield Siemens CCa's... Perhaps on par with the American USN CEP white label expensive Amperex tubes.

They seem to be more rare than those tubes, and I could see huge, huge potential with the right gear.

 

[rnros]

   
I'll add to this that my 1960 'D' getter US-made Amperex E88CCs, and 1961 Heerlen 'O' getter E88CCs, both have hissing and buzzing problems that have not gone away with a couple hundred hours use on both.  As does a pair of 1970 Heerlen E88CCs... my three worst pairs.  My '57 pinched waist E88CCs are golden, as are a pair from 1961/1963 and another from 1963/1964 (all Heerlen E88CCs).  So, it's hit or miss.
 
That tempts me to bid on those '59 'D' getters, cuz I'm a glutton for punishment 

My experience with hissers and buzzers was if it didn't burn off in one or two days it wasn't going to. Crazy thing is you still hate to toss them, so you just look at them and hate them
 
OK, another comparison for the 7LG delta3E4 Philips SQ E88CC / Valvo issue, '73s vs earlier/older:
 
Rolled in a pair of 7L4 *9K Amperex PQ 6922/E88CC (1959 D getter): These are little better when doing A/B comparison with the above '73s. In fact, they are amazing! But would I miss these if I started the session with the '73 SQ, definitely not. So, it would be amazing vs even more amazing. BTW This pair is a 1-2% match, both triodes and tubes with slight microphonics (tap only) in one triode.
Interesting to note that Philips/Amperex used the same version number 7L4 on both sides of the Atlantic. I always assumed they used different version codes.
 
Forgot to mention: IMO There are more similarities than differences with these two 6922/E88CCs from Herleen and Hicksville. I see more differences between the 6922 and the 7308.
 
How can you NOT bid on those... but go for the quad

 

 

[tvnosaint]

Damn you two, I'm trying to retire from the chase. Both of you always have such great insight and comparisons. hopefully my last two purchases will remain exactly that. I should insert a picture of Pacino here

 

[billerb1]

My goodness, it's been quite the whirlwind around the old Schiit hole the last few hours.  Might I suggest that all us addicts take a deep breath before logging on to Ebay and evaluate our own personal audio existence.  It just could be that we are all fine right now...and richer than we may be tomorrow.  My God, Tony has pairs of D-Getters laying around that he'd totally forgotten about.  DO WE ALL WANT TO TURN OUT LIKE TONY ????
A question worth asking.

 

[spyder1]

Bidding against each other defeats the chance of landing a good deal! Let logic prevail.

 

[kolkoo]

  My goodness, it's been quite the whirlwind around the old Schiit hole the last few hours.  Might I suggest that all us addicts take a deep breath before logging on to Ebay and evaluate our own personal audio existence.  It just could be that we are all fine right now...and richer than we may be tomorrow.  My God, Tony has pairs of D-Getters laying around that he'd totally forgotten about.  DO WE ALL WANT TO TURN OUT LIKE TONY ????
A question worth asking.

Hahaha man I'm so deep down the rabbit hole I'm contemplating the purchase of another tester...
And I'm also not sure what tubes I like the best anymore ... life is hard... I also need to start selling the abundance of good tubes I have that I don't even plan on listening to... but somehow I keep them.. reluctant to sell them.. send help..

 

[TK16]

  My goodness, it's been quite the whirlwind around the old Schiit hole the last few hours.  Might I suggest that all us addicts take a deep breath before logging on to Ebay and evaluate our own personal audio existence.  It just could be that we are all fine right now...and richer than we may be tomorrow.  My God, Tony has pairs of D-Getters laying around that he'd totally forgotten about.  DO WE ALL WANT TO TURN OUT LIKE TONY ????
A question worth asking.

You should of made this post weeks ago lol, I got some great sets of tubes not even burned in properly yet.

 

[billerb1]

Hahaha man I'm so deep down the rabbit hole I'm contemplating the purchase of another tester...
And I'm also not sure what tubes I like the best anymore ... life is hard... I also need to start selling the abundance of good tubes I have that I don't even plan on listening to... but somehow I keep them.. reluctant to sell them.. send help..

 


Good, kolkoo has hit rock bottom. The first step to recovery...