[Guidostrunk]

Appreciate the response. Made my decision easy. 50 seems fair. Just purchased a pair after reading your post. Cheers!

Yes, they're good.  Yes, lots of people use them.  Are they worth $50 for a pair?  Only you can answer that for yourself.  If that seems expensive, you could always try the cheaper ones available on eBay.  I haven't, so I can't comment.  I just sucked it up, trusted the Head-Fiers who recommended the Tubemongers you picture, and haven't looked back.  I can say from experience, that Tubemonger stands behind their product 100%.  When I thought I had a problem with one, they immediately offered a replacement pair, as they wanted to see what was wrong with it/them.  Later, I isolated the problem to an interconnect, but they responded extremely quickly and positively.  If that matters to you.

To the other question, yes, they are indeed "socket savers."  If you roll a lot, they protect the sockets built into your amp.  With the Lyr they have the added bonus of raising up the tubes to make it so much easier to swap tubes.  A simple popsicle stick or tongue depressor (something not metal, at the very least) to hold them in place while removing the tubes is about the only caveat for using them.  If you don't do that, you'll find that removing most tubes will bring the socket saver up with them, thus defeating its purpose.

HTH.

 

[rb2013]

 
Hi, I am thinking about upgrading from a Lyr to a WA6-SE.  You didn't like the Woo.  What tubes did you try?  Did you try many?

Hi - I loved the Woo WA6-SE and had it for over a year after going through a few other head maps like the Burson, Earmax, ASL MkIII, etc...
 
I upgraded the caps that allowed a wider range of tubes and tried everyone I could get my hands on. Rolled 5-6 rects as well.  Finally settled on the EM7s (they need pin adapters that Woo sells) and a '50s Mullard 5u4g black base (the metal bases are very expensive).  I was/am driving HD800 with a much recommended upgraded cable - the Moon Black Dragon V2.
 
At first the Lyr was captivating by it's exciting dynamics and solid bass -  but the Woo crushed it on musicality, detail, sound stage, etc...  So I stumbled onto this thread (well actually the old one), and began a very long journey in tube rolling.  I've been rolling 6922's for over a decade (my pre CJ 16ls used them), and had come across some of these Russian 6n23p's many years ago.  I was a dedicated Siemens CCa fan - especially the early 60's gray shields.  Back then you could buy them for $200/pr!  But when one burnt out on me, i decided to try the Voskhods a guy was selling on Audigon - this was way before the I  got the Lyr.  But buying the Lyr had me revisit the 6n23p's. Little did I know the ones I had were just the middle of the road '80's - mismatched at that.  But they sounded pretty good.  I started buying more and found that there were big differences between the different yrs and constructions.
 
I bought many, many more and began a yr long tube rolling journey - i posted my results on the old thread over a yr ago.
 
Anyway - with the best tubes the Lyr beats the Woo in every regard - and crushes it when it comes to dynamics and excitement.
 
PS I still have a draw full of DR7s, 6DE7s, 6FD7s, 6EW7s, etc... I sold the 6EM7s with the Woo
From the Woo Website:

The 6GL7/6EM7 is the ultimate driver/power tube for the WA6-SE. It has great extension and excellent clarity on all frequency range. You will hear each note with breathing air around it. The sound is smooth and well balanced.​

This tube is compatible to the WA6-SE. NOTE: Serial number begins with 0410 is not compatible unless a modification is done. You will need to use a tube adapter becaue the pin layout is different than the 6DE7/6EW7. It is a twin triode tube with high amplification factor. It produces higher output.​

 

[MisterMoJo]

 
Hi - I loved the Woo WA6-SE and had it for over a year after going through a few other head maps like the Burson, Earmax, ASL MkIII, etc...
 
I upgraded the caps that allowed a wider range of tubes and tried everyone I could get my hands on. Rolled 5-6 rects as well.  Finally settled on the EM7s (they need pin adapters that Woo sells) and a '50s Mullard 5u4g black base (the metal bases are very expensive).  I was/am driving HD800 with a much recommended upgraded cable - the Moon Black Dragon V2.
 
At first the Lyr was captivating by it's exciting dynamics and solid bass -  but the Woo crushed it on musicality, detail, sound stage, etc...  So I stumbled onto this thread (well actually the old one), and began a very long journey in tube rolling.  I've been rolling 6922's for over a decade (my pre CJ 16ls used them), and had come across some of these Russian 6n23p's many years ago.  I was a dedicated Siemens CCa fan - especially the early 60's gray shields.  Back then you could buy them for $200/pr!  But when one burnt out on me, i decided to try the Voskhods a guy was selling on Audigon - this was way before the I  got the Lyr.  But buying the Lyr had me revisit the 6n23p's. Little did I know the ones I had were just the middle of the road '80's - mismatched at that.  But they sounded pretty good.  I started buying more and found that there were big differences between the different yrs and constructions.
 
I bought many, many more and began a yr long tube rolling journey - i posted my results on the old thread over a yr ago.
 
Anyway - with the best tubes the Lyr beats the Woo in every regard - and crushes it when it comes to dynamics and excitement.
 
PS I still have a draw full of DR7s, 6DE7s, 6FD7s, 6EW7s, etc... I sold the 6EM7s with the Woo
From the Woo Website:

OK.  Thanks for the response.  I was wondering how much it had to do with the Sennheisers you were using.  I have the HD 650's and find them boring on the amps I have tried it on (not many).  I know the HD 800's are very picky when it comes to amps.  I will be using the TH 900.  I read somewhere the woo and them make for a "musical" combination.  But haven't found much else on the two.  Maybe I'll look elsewhere for an amp.  Maybe SS.  I just don't want to spend the kind of money I need to to roll into the sound I want.  So to speak.  Well, back to the TH900 thread...  Thanks again for your input.
PS- I am using the black dragon on my LCD 2.2's and love it.  Might get my Fostex rewired with it.  Maybe.

 

[rb2013]

 
OK.  Thanks for the response.  I was wondering how much it had to do with the Sennheisers you were using.  I have the HD 650's and find them boring on the amps I have tried it on (not many).  I know the HD 800's are very picky when it comes to amps.  I will be using the TH 900.  I read somewhere the woo and them make for a "musical" combination.  But haven't found much else on the two.  Maybe I'll look elsewhere for an amp.  Maybe SS.  I just don't want to spend the kind of money I need to to roll into the sound I want.  So to speak.  Well, back to the TH900 thread...  Thanks again for your input.
PS- I am using the black dragon on my LCD 2.2's and love it.  Might get my Fostex rewired with it.  Maybe.

I would checkout this thread if you haven't already - lots of good info on HPs and amps
http://www.head-fi.org/t/634201/battle-of-the-flagships-58-headphones-compared-update-audeze-lcd-2-revision-2-6-4-13
 
The HD800s came in #6 and that was with the stock cable.
 
Quote For the TH 900:

 

1. MY PREFERRED AMP: SPL Phonitor; Woo Audio 5

I once considered the WA 5 - but I've had a long and treacherous experience with 300b's
 
Good luck!

 

[MisterMoJo]

 
I would checkout this thread if you haven't already - lots of good info on HPs and amps
http://www.head-fi.org/t/634201/battle-of-the-flagships-58-headphones-compared-update-audeze-lcd-2-revision-2-6-4-13
 
The HD800s came in #6 and that was with the stock cable.
 
I once considered the WA 5 - but I've had a long and treacherous experience with 300b's
 
Good luck!

what's wrong with 300B's?  And thanks for the link, it got me thinking.

 

[rb2013]

 
what's wrong with 300B's?  And thanks for the link, it got me thinking.

I've had a few 300b amps including the gorgeous looking and sounding Airtight 300b and Dared 300b mono block dual SETs.  The trouble is that the 300b is a very expensive, finicky, difficult to test, and euphonic (not neutral or natural) as heck tube.  Now for some the euphonicness is a plus - top me they're the Amperex PWs of output tubes. 
 
I went through every 300b I could get my hands on in my usual rolling dedication (obsession).  The best to me where the Western Electrics and the TJ mesh plates.  Back then very expensive - today insanely expensive - like $5,000/pr.  Back then I could easily buy the reissues for $800/pr.  So I tried the Chinese versions - they sucked in comparison.  Also tried the EHs, and JJs - not to my liking.  I guess the best of the lower cost where the EH golds.  Of course I went through many a tube - it was like Russian roulette every time I turned on my system - waiting for that electrical arc -then a snap- then the smoke!  One time the Dared's almost lit on fire.
 
They are just not easy tubes to live with - you might want to check out a WA2 instead. I would like to try the WA-22 and go balanced on the HD800's, as David posted in that epic 'Battle of 58 Flagships' thread - they respond well to a balanced configuration.  But that would be a huge investment - and I'm loving the Lyr now - AND it turns on every time without issue.
 

Airtight 300B
 

 Dared 300B Monos

 

[MisterMoJo]

 
I've had a few 300b amps including the gorgeous looking and sounding Airtight 300b and Dared 300b mono block dual SETs.  The trouble is that the 300b is a very expensive, finicky, difficult to test, and euphonic (not neutral or natural) as heck tube.  Now for some the euphonicness is a plus - top me they're the Amperex PWs of output tubes. 
 
I went through every 300b I could get my hands on in my usual rolling dedication (obsession).  The best to me where the Western Electrics and the TJ mesh plates.  Back then very expensive - today insanely expensive - like $5,000/pr.  Back then I could easily buy the reissues for $800/pr.  So I tried the Chinese versions - they sucked in comparison.  Also tried the EHs, and JJs - not to my liking.  I guess the best of the lower cost where the EH golds.  Of course I went through many a tube - it was like Russian roulette every time I turned on my system - waiting for that electrical arc -then a snap- then the smoke!  One time the Dared's almost lit on fire.
 
They are just not easy tubes to live with - you might want to check out a WA2 instead. I would like to try the WA-22 and go balanced on the HD800's, as David posted in that epic 'Battle of 58 Flagships' thread - they respond well to a balanced configuration.  But that would be a huge investment - and I'm loving the Lyr now - AND it turns on every time without issue.
 

Airtight 300B
 

 Dared 300B Monos

I like my Lyr, also.  I am using it with my LCD 2.2 phones (and black dragon cable) until I get a nicer amp that will work with my TH900's (and maybe the audeze's too).

 

[Pirakaphile]

A lot of the tubes that work for the Lyr seem to be in short supply all over the internet on tube sites everywhere. Should I be worried that I'll never find a good pair, or is there at least a smidgen of hope that I can get some good tubes that are at least 2% matched and won't cost me half the rent?

 

[Nic Rhodes]

Why do you want 2% matched?

 

[Pirakaphile]

I picked a random number under 5. I just want fairly closely matched tubes, since that'd be ideal. I saw a site selling unmatched tubes, and that wouldn't be cool on my ears if I found some totally different tubes for each output. I won't have the Lyr 'till next year, so ai guess I do have a lot of time to research and such, I just hate seeing the SOLD OUT bolded letters on something I may need in the future.
So, if I ever run into some good tubes online, I should try and buy em off the bat due to availability?

 

[Nic Rhodes]

2% is very tight and probably not really necessary anyway. You should be fine with 10% however this relies on a supplier having a good stash of one type of tube (and most here also want same age / style also as 'matched'). This is fine with modern production but is much more difficult with NOS. Some here therefore buy the tubes they are interested in and then match from a batch they put together, so having a tester is becoming more common here. That is obviously too much for many so if you want to try NOS, then I would relax your 2% or even forget matching if you want to try NOS, you never know you might end up with better sound! Those with large batches of quality NOS tubes will be asking a major premium over the competition (say the private guys on ebay) and some dealers with large batches of quality NOS tubes I wouldn't touch with a barge pole. Matching is great if you are operating the tubes at the parameters they are matched at (most don't), however if you amplifier operates at different voltages then the likelyhood is these tubes are no longer matched but now just a quad or pair. I always match for pairs doing the output that work together (push pull) but I am much more relaxed about a single valve on each channel.

 

[rb2013]

A lot of the tubes that work for the Lyr seem to be in short supply all over the internet on tube sites everywhere. Should I be worried that I'll never find a good pair, or is there at least a smidgen of hope that I can get some good tubes that are at least 2% matched and won't cost me half the rent?

The supply of the best of the vintage tubes has always been scarce and will continue to get so.  They're just not making '50's, 60's, '70's tubes anymore.  I've been telling folks this for a long while on this thread.
 
But there are times when the supply is a bit greater and times it's scarcer.  So be patient and study up on what your looking for, there will be opportunities to buy them at excellent prices.  Look I just bought a beautiful pair of Philips Herleen E188CC's for $58 on Ebay- an unbelievable steal.  I also bought a pr of the excellent Amperex USN-CEP's for $100/pr.
 
It's not just 6922/E88CC/6n23p's - look at the prices of 6sn7's these days!

 

[ThurstonX]

A lot of the tubes that work for the Lyr seem to be in short supply all over the internet on tube sites everywhere. Should I be worried that I'll never find a good pair, or is there at least a smidgen of hope that I can get some good tubes that are at least 2% matched and won't cost me half the rent?

 
What the smart guys said.  I've read 20% as an acceptable number, but YMMV.  IF you can find a trusted vendor that provides that info, you'll likely pay a premium for anything under 5%.  Take Brent Jessee, for example.  Not saying he overcharges, but he knows his business, and is at least reliable (though he really needs to update his inventory list in a more timely fashion  http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
 
Bob makes a great point about being patient.  Unless you've got money burning a hole in your pocket, and are willing to take a chance on a just OK deal for some tubes you haven't seen before (or at least at that price), then just be vigilant in checking eBay and the 'Net in general.  Probably the easiest way is to make a list of tubes you really want based on opinions here and other forums, keep the watch going, and get a feel for what's a good deal from a good seller, and what's an outrageous price (could be from a good seller; I'm looking at you, Tube Museum).  For example, don't pay $400+ for a pair of mid-1960s Siemens E88CCs, when you can get them for a good German eBayer for $150.
 
Lastly, tubes come and go.  It's not like everything that's listed at this moment is all there is, and once they sell, that's it.  Sellers may not have listed they're entire stock (most likely have not), and they're always looking for more.  mercedesman on eBay is a good example.  Just watch his stock fluctuate.
 
Anyway, HTH.

 

[rb2013]

   
What the smart guys said.  I've read 20% as an acceptable number, but YMMV.  IF you can find a trusted vendor that provides that info, you'll likely pay a premium for anything under 5%.  Take Brent Jessee, for example.  Not saying he overcharges, but he knows his business, and is at least reliable (though he really needs to update his inventory list in a more timely fashion  http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
 
Bob makes a great point about being patient.  Unless you've got money burning a hole in your pocket, and are willing to take a chance on a just OK deal for some tubes you haven't seen before (or at least at that price), then just be vigilant in checking eBay and the 'Net in general.  Probably the easiest way is to make a list of tubes you really want based on opinions here and other forums, keep the watch going, and get a feel for what's a good deal from a good seller, and what's an outrageous price (could be from a good seller; I'm looking at you, Tube Museum).  For example, don't pay $400+ for a pair of mid-1960s Siemens E88CCs, when you can get them for a good German eBayer for $150.
 
Lastly, tubes come and go.  It's not like everything that's listed at this moment is all there is, and once they sell, that's it.  Sellers may not have listed they're entire stock (most likely have not), and they're always looking for more.  mercedesman on eBay is a good example.  Just watch his stock fluctuate.
 
Anyway, HTH.

+1 Great advice.

 

[Pirakaphile]

Everyone is relieving me of my paranoia, thanks a bunch. I just decided to do a little googling around and couldn't find anything at all, which is probably simply due to my inexperience. I'll likely do a bunch of studying up on all kinds of tubes, as well as a read-through of this thread and some intense website browsing for all manner of tube related fetishes. Guess I'm in for the long haul if I'm gonna get into tubes.
Also, do tubes really have a fairly large amount of impact on the soundstage, resolution, frequency response, and other audible aspects of an amp? I keep reading around that the tubes make all the difference, as if the hardware were secondary to the tubes, since, in my opinion, the amp itself would carry a majority of the sound reproduction, with the tube simply adding spice and flavor on the top. Are people just zooming way in on the differences between tubes to get a more detailed idea on what they sound like, or can tubes really make a $450 amp sound hundreds of bucks more expensive?
 
Also, sorry for all the questions, I'm simply full of them since I enjoy all this audio research, and I absolutely love to hear other's opinions on a subject I'm interested in. I'm hoping to become notorious on this site for asking hideous amounts of questions about anything and everything audio related so that I can always make an intelligent assumption and get the right gear for exactly the right reasons. Thank you all a whole ton!