[bcowen]

It is the only way I build tube amps. I have not seen it with Schiit tube products but I have repaired several amps that had solder joints or etches crack on the PC boards because of the pressure and flexing on the sockets as tubes were changed.

That's a really nice looking top plate. Must have spent some time in a quality environment.

 

[Pondoro]

It is the only way I build tube amps. I have not seen it with Schiit tube products but I have repaired several amps that had solder joints or etches crack on the PC boards because of the pressure and flexing on the sockets as tubes were changed.

My guitar amp friends do not like tube sockets on circuit boards for exactly this reason. I’ve had no trouble with my Schiit but it worries me a bit.

 

[jonathan c]

That's a really nice looking top plate. Must have spent some time in a quality environment.

You could use that plate as reinforcement to the old cardboard abode! It’s even alma mater-esque in colour!

 

[j0val]

Lyr 3 in action with GEC L63 / CV1067 pair….

I’ve been absent from this sub for a few months. What’s the benefit of the dual tubes and how do I get in on it?

 

[jonathan c]

I’ve been absent from this sub for a few months. What’s the benefit of the dual tubes and how do I get in on it?

• The tubes that I use now in Lyr 3 are 6C5 pair or 6J5 pair. These take the place of one 6SN7. The 6C5 / 6J5 are single-triode tubes while the 6SN7 is a dual-triode tube. My favourites, so far, are Ken-Rad and GEC (UK).
• The advantages to my ears of the 6C5 / 6J5 pair over the single 6SN7 are: greater delineation of a wider/deeper soundstage, more realistic capture of ambience & reverberation, more extended bass response with clarity and without exaggeration.
• To use these tubes with Lyr 3 requires a 6J5 + 6J5 —> 6SN7 adapter. Those on EBay look flimsy and wretched. Commission @Deyan to make one for you. That is what is directly atop Lyr 3 in the picture. His work is .

 

[j0val]

• The tubes that I use now in Lyr 3 are 6C5 pair or 6J5 pair. These take the place of one 6SN7. The 6C5 / 6J5 are single-triode tubes while the 6SN7 is a dual-triode tube. My favourites, so far, are Ken-Rad and GEC (UK).
• The advantages to my ears of the 6C5 / 6J5 pair over the single 6SN7 are: greater delineation of a wider/deeper soundstage, more realistic capture of ambience & reverberation, more extended bass response with clarity and without exaggeration.
• To use these tubes with Lyr 3 requires a 6J5 + 6J5 —> 6SN7 adapter. Those on EBay look flimsy and wretched. Commission @Deyan to make one for you. That is what is directly atop Lyr 3 in the picture. His work is .

Thank you for the detailed information. Looks amazing and I bet it sounds amazing too. I’ve been itching for something new ever since the Folkvangr was released, but I’m not quite ready to make that leap. I still have a lot to explore with the Lyr!

 

[jonathan c]

Thank you for the detailed information. Looks amazing and I bet it sounds amazing too. I’ve been itching for something new ever since the Folkvangr was released, but I’m not quite ready to make that leap. I still have a lot to explore with the Lyr!

• The Lyr 3 is a great amp. I have used headphones from 20-ohm Audeze LCD-X to 600-ohm Beyerdynamic DT-880: results are in the ‘very good’ to ‘excellent’ range. There have been no ‘clunkers’. With the 300-ohm Senn, ZMFs, 600-ohm Beyer I had to use the high-gain setting: but that is why it is there.
• The sound of the 6C5-equipped Lyr 3 is detailed like solid state, coherent and dimensional like vacuum tube. AND a pair (make that two pairs!) of excellent 6C5 / 6J5 tubes will cost less than a ‘holy grail’ 6SN7 (such as the CBS/Hytron 5692)!

 

[433521]

I have the tube mounted in a tube saver.

For generic branded tubes, the green Sylvania 6ns7's are my number one! Four in a Freya look SMART.

 

[433521]

Clean dental floss works. A long piece, wrap it around the bottom a few times and carefully work it out.

why clean?

I have an actual tube question: why are the FV tube vents ... not flat? can't find the word here ... is there some kind of convection advantage or is it just looks?

 

[Pondoro]

TLDR – Cable Effects and a Tube Roll

I bought a used Lyr 3. It came with the multibit DAC module, a vintage Crosley-labeled 6SN7 tube and no cords. The input to the module is a USB “B” connector. All computers mentioned in this saga are Windows desktop PC’s, less than two years old, and with maxed out memory.

Installed the Lyr on Computer 1 driving a pair of powered Klipsch bookshelf speakers with a small sub. I ran a Schiit Modi 3 from one USB port and then into the Lyr analog input – this worked fine. I used the Schiit-supplied USB cable that came with the Modi 3. I planned to compare the Modi 3 to the multibit card. Not my best speakers but the computer setup in this room would make the comparison easy.

Then (still on Computer 1), with “USB A-B cable 1” I ran the signal to Lyr multibit module input:

Sound cuts out for 1 to several seconds. Sometimes the sound actually switches, spontaneously, from the multibit DAC to the built in Realtek sound card and then switches back to Lyr (Lyr is driving different speakers than the Realtek card). If the Realtek sound card is disabled then the sound cuts out completely and Fubar ends with an error message. I tried two different USB outlets on the computer, no difference.

Moved the Lyr to Computer 2, still using USB cable 1 to the multibit input, also tried two different USB ports:

Again the sound cuts out for 1 to several seconds. Sometimes the sound actually switches to the built in Realtek sound card and then switches back to Lyr (Lyr is driving different speakers). If the Realtek is disabled then the sound cuts out completely and Fubar ends with an error message. Tube becomes microphonic and there is some audible feedback when Lyr gets fully warmed up (mild “howl” comes and goes, touch or tap the Lyr and the “tap” is audible in the speakers. Tapping increases the feedback howl.) This also occurs with Windows Media Player and YouTube as the source.

Switch to “USB A-B cable 2”: Feedback and microphonics seem worse. Start Fubar, feedback slowly builds, stop Fubar and the feedback remains! This seems like it could hurt something, if only my relationship with my wife.

Switch back to USB cable 1. I get cutouts hot or cold, microphonics only when tube (a vintage Crosley) is hot.

Confession time. I am a cable denier. I work in aerospace, I am a mechanical engineer but work closely with electrical engineers who design wires for great reliability and resistance to stray currents. I’ve been in charge of cable test programs. All of the angst about wires in aerospace seems centered around grounds and connectors, especially the connectors for grounds. Of all the cables that I am convinced “cannot matter!” a USB cable is number one on the list. Further confession: These two USB A to B cables were each included free with a printer, back when printer cables were included free. They are old. They work great with printers.

Bought a new, non-audio, USB A to B cable at Microcenter for $21.99. It was a cheaper, USB 2.0 cable. USB 3 cables were more expensive.

Installed the new cable, let us call it Cable 3, Lyr is still on PC 2. The cutouts have not reoccurred. Microphonics remain, tap the Lyr anywhere when the tube is hot and the sound is horrible, drag your fingernail across the case of the Lyr and you can hear it in the speakers. Swapped the vintage Crosley tube for a vintage GE tube, microphonics are gone! No cutouts, I am in hour 3 or so with Cable 3. We will continue.

Day 2 – still no sound cutouts, probably 3 hours of listening. I am starting to think the problem is solved. This computer does not have great speakers for A/B comparison of a Modi to the Multibit DAC. I’m just happy that the multibit DAC/Lyr are playing sound. I will need to revamp some system, probably my best one, to A/B the Modi versus the multibit module.

Note that I have no idea how the sound quality compares between the old and new cables, the sound cutouts were too annoying for serious comparison and as we speak I have yet to hear the multibit DAC driving good speakers without that problem. I am just happy that with the new cable everything seems to work.

 

[bcowen]

TLDR – Cable Effects and a Tube Roll

I bought a used Lyr 3. It came with the multibit DAC module, a vintage Crosley-labeled 6SN7 tube and no cords. The input to the module is a USB “B” connector. All computers mentioned in this saga are Windows desktop PC’s, less than two years old, and with maxed out memory.

Installed the Lyr on Computer 1 driving a pair of powered Klipsch bookshelf speakers with a small sub. I ran a Schiit Modi 3 from one USB port and then into the Lyr analog input – this worked fine. I used the Schiit-supplied USB cable that came with the Modi 3. I planned to compare the Modi 3 to the multibit card. Not my best speakers but the computer setup in this room would make the comparison easy.

Then (still on Computer 1), with “USB A-B cable 1” I ran the signal to Lyr multibit module input:

Sound cuts out for 1 to several seconds. Sometimes the sound actually switches, spontaneously, from the multibit DAC to the built in Realtek sound card and then switches back to Lyr (Lyr is driving different speakers than the Realtek card). If the Realtek sound card is disabled then the sound cuts out completely and Fubar ends with an error message. I tried two different USB outlets on the computer, no difference.

Moved the Lyr to Computer 2, still using USB cable 1 to the multibit input, also tried two different USB ports:

Again the sound cuts out for 1 to several seconds. Sometimes the sound actually switches to the built in Realtek sound card and then switches back to Lyr (Lyr is driving different speakers). If the Realtek is disabled then the sound cuts out completely and Fubar ends with an error message. Tube becomes microphonic and there is some audible feedback when Lyr gets fully warmed up (mild “howl” comes and goes, touch or tap the Lyr and the “tap” is audible in the speakers. Tapping increases the feedback howl.) This also occurs with Windows Media Player and YouTube as the source.

Switch to “USB A-B cable 2”: Feedback and microphonics seem worse. Start Fubar, feedback slowly builds, stop Fubar and the feedback remains! This seems like it could hurt something, if only my relationship with my wife.

Switch back to USB cable 1. I get cutouts hot or cold, microphonics only when tube (a vintage Crosley) is hot.

Confession time. I am a cable denier. I work in aerospace, I am a mechanical engineer but work closely with electrical engineers who design wires for great reliability and resistance to stray currents. I’ve been in charge of cable test programs. All of the angst about wires in aerospace seems centered around grounds and connectors, especially the connectors for grounds. Of all the cables that I am convinced “cannot matter!” a USB cable is number one on the list. Further confession: These two USB A to B cables were each included free with a printer, back when printer cables were included free. They are old. They work great with printers.

Bought a new, non-audio, USB A to B cable at Microcenter for $21.99. It was a cheaper, USB 2.0 cable. USB 3 cables were more expensive.

Installed the new cable, let us call it Cable 3, Lyr is still on PC 2. The cutouts have not reoccurred. Microphonics remain, tap the Lyr anywhere when the tube is hot and the sound is horrible, drag your fingernail across the case of the Lyr and you can hear it in the speakers. Swapped the vintage Crosley tube for a vintage GE tube, microphonics are gone! No cutouts, I am in hour 3 or so with Cable 3. We will continue.

Day 2 – still no sound cutouts, probably 3 hours of listening. I am starting to think the problem is solved. This computer does not have great speakers for A/B comparison of a Modi to the Multibit DAC. I’m just happy that the multibit DAC/Lyr are playing sound. I will need to revamp some system, probably my best one, to A/B the Modi versus the multibit module.

Note that I have no idea how the sound quality compares between the old and new cables, the sound cutouts were too annoying for serious comparison and as we speak I have yet to hear the multibit DAC driving good speakers without that problem. I am just happy that with the new cable everything seems to work.

Possible that the "freebie" cables you used are USB 1.0 instead of USB 2.0? You mentioned they were old. Big difference in bandwidth capabilities between the two standards. Don't know if that has any bearing on the issue, but it might.

And microphonic tubes happen. Sucks, but it comes with the territory. Sometimes resoldering the pins can fix it, but only sometimes. I'd certainly try that though (if you are able) rather than continue listening to a GE.

 

[tafens]

TLDR – Cable Effects and a Tube Roll

I bought a used Lyr 3. It came with the multibit DAC module, a vintage Crosley-labeled 6SN7 tube and no cords. The input to the module is a USB “B” connector. All computers mentioned in this saga are Windows desktop PC’s, less than two years old, and with maxed out memory.

Installed the Lyr on Computer 1 driving a pair of powered Klipsch bookshelf speakers with a small sub. I ran a Schiit Modi 3 from one USB port and then into the Lyr analog input – this worked fine. I used the Schiit-supplied USB cable that came with the Modi 3. I planned to compare the Modi 3 to the multibit card. Not my best speakers but the computer setup in this room would make the comparison easy.

Then (still on Computer 1), with “USB A-B cable 1” I ran the signal to Lyr multibit module input:

Sound cuts out for 1 to several seconds. Sometimes the sound actually switches, spontaneously, from the multibit DAC to the built in Realtek sound card and then switches back to Lyr (Lyr is driving different speakers than the Realtek card). If the Realtek sound card is disabled then the sound cuts out completely and Fubar ends with an error message. I tried two different USB outlets on the computer, no difference.

Moved the Lyr to Computer 2, still using USB cable 1 to the multibit input, also tried two different USB ports:

Again the sound cuts out for 1 to several seconds. Sometimes the sound actually switches to the built in Realtek sound card and then switches back to Lyr (Lyr is driving different speakers). If the Realtek is disabled then the sound cuts out completely and Fubar ends with an error message. Tube becomes microphonic and there is some audible feedback when Lyr gets fully warmed up (mild “howl” comes and goes, touch or tap the Lyr and the “tap” is audible in the speakers. Tapping increases the feedback howl.) This also occurs with Windows Media Player and YouTube as the source.

Switch to “USB A-B cable 2”: Feedback and microphonics seem worse. Start Fubar, feedback slowly builds, stop Fubar and the feedback remains! This seems like it could hurt something, if only my relationship with my wife.

Switch back to USB cable 1. I get cutouts hot or cold, microphonics only when tube (a vintage Crosley) is hot.

Confession time. I am a cable denier. I work in aerospace, I am a mechanical engineer but work closely with electrical engineers who design wires for great reliability and resistance to stray currents. I’ve been in charge of cable test programs. All of the angst about wires in aerospace seems centered around grounds and connectors, especially the connectors for grounds. Of all the cables that I am convinced “cannot matter!” a USB cable is number one on the list. Further confession: These two USB A to B cables were each included free with a printer, back when printer cables were included free. They are old. They work great with printers.

Bought a new, non-audio, USB A to B cable at Microcenter for $21.99. It was a cheaper, USB 2.0 cable. USB 3 cables were more expensive.

Installed the new cable, let us call it Cable 3, Lyr is still on PC 2. The cutouts have not reoccurred. Microphonics remain, tap the Lyr anywhere when the tube is hot and the sound is horrible, drag your fingernail across the case of the Lyr and you can hear it in the speakers. Swapped the vintage Crosley tube for a vintage GE tube, microphonics are gone! No cutouts, I am in hour 3 or so with Cable 3. We will continue.

Day 2 – still no sound cutouts, probably 3 hours of listening. I am starting to think the problem is solved. This computer does not have great speakers for A/B comparison of a Modi to the Multibit DAC. I’m just happy that the multibit DAC/Lyr are playing sound. I will need to revamp some system, probably my best one, to A/B the Modi versus the multibit module.

Note that I have no idea how the sound quality compares between the old and new cables, the sound cutouts were too annoying for serious comparison and as we speak I have yet to hear the multibit DAC driving good speakers without that problem. I am just happy that with the new cable everything seems to work.

Seems you have had the bad fortune of broken or sub-standard USB cables as well as the dreaded microphonic tube problem. I’m happy you got it all sorted out!

I’ve had similar problems myself, although not both at the same time..

The cable issue. When I got my Lyr3 I also bought a high quality USB A-B printer cable locally to use with it. It served me well for quite some time but then I started to get exactly the same problems that you describe: cut-outs for 1 second or longer, the computer speakers cutting in instead (I use a Mac laptop). After a while of testing different things I figured I’d try to replace the USB cable. Said and done, everything worked great again!

The tube issue. I bought some spare tubes off of an online seller but didn’t try them until some time later. The tube I had in the Lyr3 worked fine, and the spares were the same manufacturer and kind, so I didn’t think to check them until the one I used developed some slight static noise problems. Turns out 3 of 4 in the bunch were microphonic Not in the same way as yours, but a tap on the amp would return a “twangggg!”-sound and tapping on the shelf beside the amp would go through as well.

Just thought I’d share

 

[Pondoro]

Possible that the "freebie" cables you used are USB 1.0 instead of USB 2.0? You mentioned they were old. Big difference in bandwidth capabilities between the two standards. Don't know if that has any bearing on the issue, but it might.

And microphonic tubes happen. Sucks, but it comes with the territory. Sometimes resoldering the pins can fix it, but only sometimes. I'd certainly try that though (if you are able) rather than continue listening to a GE.

I never thought of USB 1! I think you are correct. I'll roll other tubes once this is in my best system. That system has no PC right now, so no easy way to input into the USB.

 

[Pondoro]

{SNIP}

The cable issue. When I got my Lyr3 I also bought a high quality USB A-B printer cable locally to use with it. It served me well for quite some time but then I started to get exactly the same problems that you describe: cut-outs for 1 second or longer, the computer speakers cutting in instead (I use a Mac laptop). After a while of testing different things I figured I’d try to replace the USB cable. Said and done, everything worked great again!

{SNIP}

Just thought I’d share

I am glad someone else had this issue, I was thinking I had lost my mind! Also glad it can be fixed.

 

[Pondoro]

Possible that the "freebie" cables you used are USB 1.0 instead of USB 2.0? You mentioned they were old. Big difference in bandwidth capabilities between the two standards. Don't know if that has any bearing on the issue, but it might.

And microphonic tubes happen. Sucks, but it comes with the territory. Sometimes resoldering the pins can fix it, but only sometimes. I'd certainly try that though (if you are able) rather than continue listening to a GE.

@bcowen - I have replaced the GE 6SN7 with a "birth year" RCA "Radiotron", it sounds mildly better (but recall this is not in my music system, it is in a PC that has two small monitor speakers where I record and mix.) The Lyr is working great, it will soon move to a proper music system. My reason for buying it was to compare the Schiit multibit card to a Schiit Modi into the same preamp.

Birth year, by the way, is 1957.

How do you resolder a tube? I have soldering irons of various power levels and real, deadly, lead-containing, solder. I'd love to make the Crosley useable, I actually live in the Cincinnati, Ohio environs. The Crosley tube would be a "hometown" tube, although I do not know if Crosley actually made them or outsourced them. Either way the name "Crosley" is revered in Cincinnati.