[HomerSkins]

Hey Skins…I am NOT an electrical engineer…..so…I read about the TYR Amps when they released and that it was a special old-school design "choke input" amps. I do not understand any of the tech design of those amps, but they seem to be designed in a very specific unusual way that the Schiit partners seem very proud of. Perhaps that specific amp design has something to do with your dilema…but your feedback of Schiit customer service sounds horrible! With all of their high-end gear that you have, you would think that they would be more helpful??? Disappointing to say the least.
All I can tell you is my set-up: Pi2Design Mercury Streamer=>I2S Cable=>Denafrips Pontus II DAC=>Balanced Cable=>Loki Max=>Balanced Cable=>Freya+=>Balanced Cable=>McIntosh MC152 Power Amp=>
#10 Copper Lamp Cord => DynAudio Contour 20 Speakers + 2 REL T/5x Subs connected to the power amp's speaker terminals with REL's proprietary high-output cables.
It sounds incredible (to me)…in both Tube and Solid State Modes…and The Loki Max is transparent and just a perfect compliment to tweak my system. The equalizer is silent in the chain and does not alter my sound in any way “to me" unless called on and the 6 frequencies adjust at just the right amplitude to make them oh-so-useful. Not too much, not too little. I only need to use the Loki about 25% of the time..as the system is dialed in to my sound preferences, after much gear changing.
Sorry that you have had so much struggle, but believe you me…I had mine arriving at this destination!
If Schiit is not listening to you (and your exact set-up), THEN they will never have a proper explanation for you. Can't you get higher up on the food chain at Schiit to find out what is causing the malfunction?
Aside from that…HOW DO THOSE AMPS SOUND?????

The TYR Amps sound wonderful!! I just really wanted to have their tasty EQ work for me as well. I picked up a dbx 1231 equalizer and am running it fully balanced out of the Freya + -> dbx EQ -> TYR Amps and it works like a charm and plenty of Gain/ Volume, etc! It is the Loki Max I tell you - something is not right about it. Thanks - Skins

 

[dwest1023]

The TYR Amps sound wonderful!! I just really wanted to have their tasty EQ work for me as well. I picked up a dbx 1231 equalizer and am running it fully balanced out of the Freya + -> dbx EQ -> TYR Amps and it works like a charm and plenty of Gain/ Volume, etc! It is the Loki Max I tell you - something is not right about it. Thanks - Skins

I seemingly has issues with my first Loki max, but the second one I purchased has no issues. This is a high end eq so there will be no dramatic change in sound when you make adjustment. If you have a highend system and you certainly do, I would think you would not want a lot of difference. I only use mine for minor touch up. I dont want to alter the sound. I worked hard getting my Pass Lab 250 to my taste through cabling and fuse changes. I dont need to use the Loki much. I prefer the subtle changes it makes. Sorry, your experience with the Loki did not fit your needs.

 

[HomerSkins]

I seemingly has issues with my first Loki max, but the second one I purchased has no issues. This is a high end eq so there will be no dramatic change in sound when you make adjustment. If you have a highend system and you certainly do, I would think you would not want a lot of difference. I only use mine for minor touch up. I dont want to alter the sound. I worked hard getting my Pass Lab 250 to my taste through cabling and fuse changes. I dont need to use the Loki much. I prefer the subtle changes it makes. Sorry, your experience with the Loki did not fit your needs.

Well, there's no dramatic change, and then there's no change at all. I experienced both. For that amount of jingle, I expect an exceptional amount of control from an EQ. Trust me, something was not functioning correctly with the two Loki Max units that I had in my possession. Schiit knew it too, or else they would have called me, as I asked them to repeatedly do. Skins

 

[gdhal]

Interesting posts herein this thread. Seems like there are those on both sides of the fence as to the usefulness, viability, transparency or lack thereof of this unit.

@Ableza ....nice hat. Given your initial post and seeing that you started this thread, please allow me to pose this question to you. Based on your photo, technically you have not followed Schiit's recommendation (as stated in their user manual) with regard to placement of this EQ piece. You've stacked it on top of the Yggy, which I would think has a transformer. Are you not detecting any audible hum, as purportedly can happen?

 

[Ableza]

Interesting posts herein this thread. Seems like there are those on both sides of the fence as to the usefulness, viability, transparency or lack thereof of this unit.

@Ableza ....nice hat. Given your initial post and seeing that you started this thread, please allow me to pose this question to you. Based on your photo, technically you have not followed Schiit's recommendation (as stated in their user manual) with regard to placement of this EQ piece. You've stacked it on top of the Yggy, which I would think has a transformer. Are you not detecting any audible hum, as purportedly can happen?

None whatsoever. And my hat is because I think it's cool, not because I have any relationship to Schiit other than being a customer.

 

[gdhal]

@Ableza Hello (again) Ableza. Another question for you if I may. Note that I ask because I am sincerely interested in the unit, and may ultimately wind up purchasing it. Also, I ask the question of you specifically because, while you may not believe this, I trust you.

Ok, enough with the formalities.

My question is having to do with the statement on Schiit's website:

How can I tell if this is really transparent? Do you offer a true bypass?
Yes. And you can use it from the remote. And the output level is matched between processed and unprocessed modes to within 0.2dB (with all knobs on center.)

(1) Have you found the unit to be *completely* transparent when in bypass mode? My assumption is, yes, you have. Nevertheless, please indicate yes/no.

(2) Have you compared bypass mode to non-bypass mode, where non-bypass mode has *all* potentiometers at the midpoint (zero, 12 o'clock, all knobs at the center, etc.)? If so, is there a discernable difference? As I understand it, based on Schiit's statement (above), there would be a difference, albeit very subtle.

Thank you.

EDIT:
Apologies. I just read your post 4/25/22 1:43PM in which you write:
re: level changes. Interesting that some report this. With my Max, if I leave all controls set to zero I can toggle the bypass switch and hear no level changes.

I haven't read through this entire thread yet

EDIT 2: Ableza, upon searching youtube videos, I question if this unit is named "Loki Max" (Schiit website) or "Lokius Max" (videos). The Lokius Max videos I can find have six bands, however, the front panel does not look *exactly* as depicted on Schiit's website. Do you have any insight into this? If so, please explain. Thank you.

 

[Ableza]

@Ableza Hello (again) Ableza. Another question for you if I may. Note that I ask because I am sincerely interested in the unit, and may ultimately wind up purchasing it. Also, I ask the question of you specifically because, while you may not believe this, I trust you.

Ok, enough with the formalities.

My question is having to do with the statement on Schiit's website:

How can I tell if this is really transparent? Do you offer a true bypass?
Yes. And you can use it from the remote. And the output level is matched between processed and unprocessed modes to within 0.2dB (with all knobs on center.)

(1) Have you found the unit to be *completely* transparent when in bypass mode? My assumption is, yes, you have. Nevertheless, please indicate yes/no.

(2) Have you compared bypass mode to non-bypass mode, where non-bypass mode has *all* potentiometers at the midpoint (zero, 12 o'clock, all knobs at the center, etc.)? If so, is there a discernable difference? As I understand it, based on Schiit's statement (above), there would be a difference, albeit very subtle.

Thank you.

EDIT:
Apologies. I just read your post 4/25/22 1:43PM in which you write:
re: level changes. Interesting that some report this. With my Max, if I leave all controls set to zero I can toggle the bypass switch and hear no level changes.

I haven't read through this entire thread yet

EDIT 2: Ableza, upon searching youtube videos, I question if this unit is named "Loki Max" (Schiit website) or "Lokius Max" (videos). The Lokius Max videos I can find have six bands, however, the front panel does not look *exactly* as depicted on Schiit's website. Do you have any insight into this? If so, please explain. Thank you.

Thanks for the compliments. I just try to be honest.

Since you’ve already found my previous posts I don’t want to repeat myself,but 1) yes and 2 edit) the device is Loki Max. Tomorrow I can take a photo. As an aside I have only used the remote a couple times to see how it worked. I prefer to grab the knobs.

 

[gdhal]

Thanks for the compliments. I just try to be honest.

Since you’ve already found my previous posts I don’t want to repeat myself,but 1) yes and 2 edit) the device is Loki Max. Tomorrow I can take a photo. As an aside I have only used the remote a couple times to see how it worked. I prefer to grab the knobs.

You're welcome, Ableza. And thank you for your prompt and candid reply.

A photo isn't necessary as far as I'm concerned. You posted one at the start of the thread, which matches the photo on the Schiit website.

Curious why there are no YouTube videos by now. The videos that exist are six bands, however, there are toggle switches instead of buttons.

Anyway, I have the data I need to make a purchase decision.

 

[Ableza]

Loki by early morning light.

 

[gdhal]

I still think digital EQ that is built into the DAC or streamer is the better approach. There is simply no way (not possible period) to NOT add noise and distortion to the analog signal; whether you can hear it or not with your gear is another matter.

@chesebert

Hi chesebert. Question for you if you don't mind. Your statement that I've quoted does have validity. And I also understand the counterpoint to that which is that if the distortion and/or noise you're speaking about is inaudible, then, does it matter? I get it. I also get your point about "it's there" whether or not it can be heard.

According to Schiit, the unit has the ability to "....and bypass the EQ completely (as in, just a relay and resistor in the signal path, no active stages)". So my question to you is, in your opinion (or fact), *if Schiit's claim is correct*, would there still be noise and/or distortion added?

Thank you.

EDIT 9/4 - at this point I'd like to pose my question, comments, etc. to the Loki Max community at large.

Thank you.

 

[gdhal]

I don't need to try to know all analog EQs add distortion and noise - simple electronics 101 stuff. If your goal is to add something to the signal, I would do it at the amp stage or headphone stage rather than at the source. But you do you.

I'm going to quote you again, because I'd like to read from you.

If you want to get down to "simple electronics 101 stuff", one could present a series of data/arguments that also "add something to the signal".

And, as you allude to, the "something", in this case, would be undesirable.

For example, did you know that if your speaker wires are a foot (or any length) longer than they need to be, that too is adding additional noise and unwanted distortion to your system? This by virtue of additional RFI and EMI that all wires, no matter how well "insulated" are going to pick up.

And, if your speaker wires are not precisely the same length from left to right channel, that too is causing an imbalance, albeit not necessarily audible, in your system.

Furthermore, whatever speakers that you have, or headphones that you're using, do you know they do not have **exactly** the same sensitivity characteristic?

Even the best of the best, cost no object speakers, differ by +/- .2db (or more) from one another. (In the case of headphones this would be the difference between the left and right channel, in the case of speakers it would be the difference between the left and right speaker in its entirety).

So again, this too presents another "problem" per se.

Here is yet another problem for all audio aficionados reading this post.

Did you know that all amplifiers, regardless of their type, have a particular gain level that results in the least distortion, relative to its maximum distortion that it can produce?

So, certain recordings, based on their level of gain, and the type of connectivity you're using (rca, xlr, etc.) which varies the voltage applied to the amp, will invariably cause the listener to raise or lower the "volume". Once the volume is raised or lowered outside of the threshold of the amplifiers minimum distortion range, more distortion is added.

Whether you can hear it or not, and whether or not your system is resolving enough to reproduce it so you're able to hear it, is another matter.

Okay, now I do expect a few "likes" from this post.

Best.

 

[gdhal]

I posted this in the Yggdrasil thread, but it's worth posting here as well. Unfortunately, this guy hasn't measured the Loki Max.

However, golden sound.audio. may interest you. Terrific and concise measurements data.

On his discord page he posts the following quote, from our beloved @Jason Stoddard

```"All of audiophilia is a search for the perfect distortion profile"
- Jason Stoddard```

 

[ThanatosVI]

Hey guys,

Somehow I ended up with renewed interest in a Loki Max.
Does Schiit also offer black knobs on the Device?

Schiit-Europe is unfortunately out of stock anyways right now...

Haven't read the thread so far, are long term users still happy with the Device?

 

[PoMarantz]

Hi…
I LOVE mine! Listening right now…and all is on zero. I find that my Loki Max (LM), is really fantastic. My system is very well-balanced…so…I am only using the LM when I need to tweak the occasional recording here and there. I find the gain on the changes for each frequency to be just right to "trim" the recordings in the frequencies that need it. So happy with it! Plus, I have a Schiit Freya+ Preamp w/ silver sides, knobs and buttons…so they match perfectly and look quite smart "to me"! I love the contrasts.
FYI…one thing I was told..is that Schiit does batches of production runs of their audio components. I waited a good 6 months to get my LM and I think I was waiting for the next production run here in The States.
I smile every time I turn my system on…just knowing it’s there for a needed tweak "if needed" is comforting when I am exploring music. Recordings and systems are never perfect!

 

[Ableza]

No black knobs, and yes I love mine.