[rutter]

In my 0.02 second look at those images I've discovered the info that there shouldn't be a ground loop as I've been mostly using the devices plugged into the same power strip. Facetiousness and GrussGott aside, instead of paying an extra $70 for something to test and accommodate schiit I've been pming with a member who suggested this - https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matter...f=sr_1_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1529527658 . Regardless, I've ordered a Questyle CMA400i. Free shipping, arrives tomorrow. If you're on the other coast it would arrive at the same time as a Schiit package would minus the days or weeks waiting for a product to be in stock, for free, not to mention you can buy it from anywhere so that was a waste of a sentence clause. 30-day return period, zero restocking fees. Also more likely to be available to try at stores before you buy. I'll go into Schiit's marketing nonsense tomorrow. Let's see how the sound compares first and what happens with the ground loop.

It's not a noisy USB port. My Nano Black Label is silent. A couple of months ago I tried a Mojo and a Micro Black Label, which I cranked up to ensure there is no background noise as this was something I was aware of with my motherboard's DAC and one of the reasons to buy a dedicated DAC. It amuses me how willing some of you are to keep crap and spend more money to accommodate it. My thinking is I'm not in the buying literal schiit business. If there's noise with the CMA400i I'll go from there.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oklahoma, have to give you credit on unplugging the Jot from the Modi Mulbit suggestion. Based on the levels I think the Modi Multibit might be contributing but there's definitely noise coming from the Jot. And it just got more interesting!!!! It's a Schiit stack, right? You're supposed to put one thing on top of the other, right? I got these people's six inch cables so it's not like I have much of a choice. Well, with the Jot disconnected from the MM and the MM turned off when the MM sits on top of the Jot the Jot makes noise. When I lift the MM off the Jot the noise disappears! Mind you, there is no connection between the two devices and the MM is off. By sheer chance, because I plugged the Nano BL into a USB port of my computer I unplugged the MM's USB cable, I noticed that the Jot makes noise when the MM sits on top of it. Here's a shock though. When I plug the MM's USB cable into the computer, still disconnected from the Jot and turned off, in the same position on top of the Jot, the noise from the Jot disappears! This is getting even more messed up. If I press the volume knob down or in, or if I press the Jot from above down, lightly, the same type of noise occurs. When I unplug the MM's USB cable the same type of noise is constant, unless I lift the MM, but if I plug the USB cable in without touching the Jot with my hand and the MM rests on top of the Jot there is no noise!! Now I'm plugging the USB cable of the MM in, the noise goes away, MM is cycling its lights, plug the RCA cables back in (and almost blow out my right ear and the right driver of my LCD-X, hopefully no actual damage to either), and noise is there, except this time it's a different type of noise. It's grainy, and it's what I was hearing before. It's not the bzzzz I've been talking about thus far.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So you tell me, what the hell did I just describe!? What in the world are these devices!? Someone here is smart enough to explain what could be happening here, right?

 

[the finisher]

My Jot is absolutely silent at full volume, no signal with the LCD X.
I have very clean power, and very good shielding on everything.
Dedicated main, isolated ground, power conditioning/ filtering.

 

[sixstringmonk]

So here are my noise observations with a new Jotunheim that I got about 2 weeks ago with the multi-bit DAC:

• Very slight amount of white noise with the volume at 3 o clock or higher when I'm on the USB input. It is there even if the USB is unplugged which should rule out a ground loop correct? I would never listen this loud so it's a non-issue. It's louder on the high gain, but I can barely hear it on low gain.
• Audible hum at 3'o clock or higher on the dual analog input when I touch the volume knob. Can hear it in both low and high gain mode, but it's more noticeable in high gain mode. This is with no actual inputs plugged in (no usb or analog inputs).

 

[rutter]

My Jot is absolutely silent at full volume, no signal with the LCD X.
I have very clean power, and very good shielding on everything.
Dedicated main, isolated ground, power conditioning/ filtering.

Did you even read that paragraph? You're seriously going to argue clean power and very good shielding? With all Schiit cables too?

Oklahoma, have to give you credit on unplugging the Jot from the Modi Mulbit suggestion. Based on the levels I think the Modi Multibit might be contributing but there's definitely noise coming from the Jot. And it just got more interesting!!!! It's a Schiit stack, right? You're supposed to put one thing on top of the other, right? I got these people's six inch cables so it's not like I have much of a choice. Well, with the Jot disconnected from the MM and the MM turned off when the MM sits on top of the Jot the Jot makes noise. When I lift the MM off the Jot the noise disappears! Mind you, there is no connection between the two devices and the MM is off. By sheer chance, because I plugged the Nano BL into a USB port of my computer I unplugged the MM's USB cable, I noticed that the Jot makes noise when the MM sits on top of it. Here's a shock though. When I plug the MM's USB cable into the computer, still disconnected from the Jot and turned off, in the same position on top of the Jot, the noise from the Jot disappears! This is getting even more messed up. If I press the volume knob down or in, or if I press the Jot from above down, lightly, the same type of noise occurs. When I unplug the MM's USB cable the same type of noise is constant, unless I lift the MM, but if I plug the USB cable in without touching the Jot with my hand and the MM rests on top of the Jot there is no noise!! Now I'm plugging the USB cable of the MM in, the noise goes away, MM is cycling its lights, plug the RCA cables back in (and almost blow out my right ear and the right driver of my LCD-X, hopefully no actual damage to either), and noise is there, except this time it's a different type of noise. It's grainy, and it's what I was hearing before. It's not the bzzzz I've been talking about thus far.

 

[Alcophone]

In my 0.02 second look at those images I've discovered the info that there shouldn't be a ground loop as I've been mostly using the devices plugged into the same power strip. Facetiousness and GrussGott aside, instead of paying an extra $70 for something to test and accommodate schiit I've been pming with a member who suggested this - https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matter...f=sr_1_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1529527658 . Regardless, I've ordered a Questyle CMA400i. Free shipping, arrives tomorrow. If you're on the other coast it would arrive at the same time as a Schiit package would minus the days or weeks waiting for a product to be in stock, for free, not to mention you can buy it from anywhere so that was a waste of a sentence clause. 30-day return period, zero restocking fees. Also more likely to be available to try at stores before you buy. I'll go into Schiit's marketing nonsense tomorrow. Let's see how the sound compares first and what happens with the ground loop.

It's not a noisy USB port. My Nano Black Label is silent. A couple of months ago I tried a Mojo and a Micro Black Label, which I cranked up to ensure there is no background noise as this was something I was aware of with my motherboard's DAC and one of the reasons to buy a dedicated DAC. It amuses me how willing some of you are to keep crap and spend more money to accommodate it. My thinking is I'm not in the buying literal schiit business. If there's noise with the CMA400i I'll go from there.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oklahoma, have to give you credit on unplugging the Jot from the Modi Mulbit suggestion. Based on the levels I think the Modi Multibit might be contributing but there's definitely noise coming from the Jot. And it just got more interesting!!!! It's a Schiit stack, right? You're supposed to put one thing on top of the other, right? I got these people's six inch cables so it's not like I have much of a choice. Well, with the Jot disconnected from the MM and the MM turned off when the MM sits on top of the Jot the Jot makes noise. When I lift the MM off the Jot the noise disappears! Mind you, there is no connection between the two devices and the MM is off. By sheer chance, because I plugged the Nano BL into a USB port of my computer I unplugged the MM's USB cable, I noticed that the Jot makes noise when the MM sits on top of it. Here's a shock though. When I plug the MM's USB cable into the computer, still disconnected from the Jot and turned off, in the same position on top of the Jot, the noise from the Jot disappears! This is getting even more messed up. If I press the volume knob down or in, or if I press the Jot from above down, lightly, the same type of noise occurs. When I unplug the MM's USB cable the same type of noise is constant, unless I lift the MM, but if I plug the USB cable in without touching the Jot with my hand and the MM rests on top of the Jot there is no noise!! Now I'm plugging the USB cable of the MM in, the noise goes away, MM is cycling its lights, plug the RCA cables back in (and almost blow out my right ear and the right driver of my LCD-X, hopefully no actual damage to either), and noise is there, except this time it's a different type of noise. It's grainy, and it's what I was hearing before. It's not the bzzzz I've been talking about thus far.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So you tell me, what the hell did I just describe!? What in the world are these devices!? Someone here is smart enough to explain what could be happening here, right?

That is beyond bizarre. Do you live close to train tracks or high current power lines or something like that?
Do you happen to have an outlet tester? Wondering whether your outlets are properly grounded. Also wondering about the voltage you're getting, do you have a Kill-a-Watt? Not suggesting you buy any of that, but something funky is going on.
BTW, the power cords Schiit includes are most likely not shielded. I also see no clue about the PYST cables being shielded. Certainly insulated, but not .necessarily shielded.
It may very well be a defective Jotunheim, though both of mine have never done any of what you describe, despite having been used in a variety of circumstances. So even if it's an issue with your Jotunheim, it's not necessarily a systemic issue.
And about stuff being backordered, there's an electronic parts shortage going on that Schiit may be affected by (though they certainly have a history of being backordered, but right it seems worse than usual).

Edit: Another question: are you using any powerlan adapters? I was impressed when one of them causef my parents' computer speakers to buzz when plugged into an outlet about 9ft away.

 

[rutter]

So I'm getting two different background sounds. The first is there with everything plugged in and during listening. It's there at listening volume with an HE400i headphone. It's a grainy type of noise, whitenoise? It is present with the MM plugged in but turned off.... OMG, there are three different background sounds!!!!!!! When I flip the MM on another, louder, more consistent layer comes on top that kind of sounds like sand. So this combination of the two is what is present during function. If I unplug the USB cable both sounds disappear in both circumstances. Now I turn off the MM and unplug the RCA cables. When I unplug the RCA cables from the Jot there's silence. When I press the volume knob down or in, or if I press on top of the Jot near the volume knob I hear the third more of a buzzing sound. As soon as I unplug the USB cable connecting the turned off MM that is disconnected from the Jot to the computer the buzzing sound reappears and is constant. If I lift the MM from the Jot the sound completely disappears. No matter where I place the MM on the Jot the sound is there. If I unplug the power cable from the MM the sound is still there but its volume is greatly reduced. Only connecting the USB cable between the computer and the otherwise completely disconnected (including the power cable) and unpowered MM sitting on top of the Jot removes the sound.

Wow... by the way, I was never claiming this issue (or issues) would be present on every Schiit product. But I am doubting some things on a systemic level. Don't have an outlet tester. Didn't have any background noise issues with Micro and Nano BL, Mojo. Is it safe to say that if the CMA400i checks out it's not a noisy USB port (maybe I'll start testing ports next; tried another at the front of the computer rather than the back, exact same thing with each of the three actually distinct background sounds)? It's not even a matter of a noisy USB port, it's a devil of a USB port if it both eliminates and creates sound. More like the God USB port, and it ain't looking kindly on the Schiit it's dealing with. I don't understand how their $20 cables can be excused, by the way. I bet others are using their cables and probably not having these issues, although who knows.

 

[rutter]

So here are my noise observations with a new Jotunheim that I got about 2 weeks ago with the multi-bit DAC:

• Very slight amount of white noise with the volume at 3 o clock or higher when I'm on the USB input. It is there even if the USB is unplugged which should rule out a ground loop correct? I would never listen this loud so it's a non-issue. It's louder on the high gain, but I can barely hear it on low gain.
• Audible hum at 3'o clock or higher on the dual analog input when I touch the volume knob. Can hear it in both low and high gain mode, but it's more noticeable in high gain mode. This is with no actual inputs plugged in (no usb or analog inputs).

I would figure that it could be a ground loop if unplugging the USB doesn't eliminate the white noise? The thing for me is that with an HE400i the first two noises are audible at a silent listening level, and they seem to be close with the LCD-X, which is easier to drive. So what would happen when I get an HD800S, and go balanced to boot? Unacceptable. We seem to have a similar occurrence with respect to touching the volume knob. In, down, or trying to turn it past max for me, and when lightly pressing the top of the chassis near it. Interestingly, this only occurs for me when the Jot is disconnected from my separate MM, so upon rereading your post it seems in similar circumstances. Just tried doing these things now and I do not hear the third buzzing noise at all when connected to the MM under listening conditions (minus anything playing).

Also, no, I don't live next to train tracks or high current power lines. Except take the headphones off that smiley face. No Kill-a-Watt either.

 

[Alcophone]

So here are my noise observations with a new Jotunheim that I got about 2 weeks ago with the multi-bit DAC:

• Very slight amount of white noise with the volume at 3 o clock or higher when I'm on the USB input. It is there even if the USB is unplugged which should rule out a ground loop correct? I would never listen this loud so it's a non-issue. It's louder on the high gain, but I can barely hear it on low gain.
• Audible hum at 3'o clock or higher on the dual analog input when I touch the volume knob. Can hear it in both low and high gain mode, but it's more noticeable in high gain mode. This is with no actual inputs plugged in (no usb or analog inputs).

Hooooly Schiit, this is fascinating. I just tested this with mine. Nothing plugged in except the power cord and my Ether Flow with a balanced cable. High gain.

Input set to USB (I have the original AK4490 module). Full volume: nothing. Unless I touch the volume pot or the top of the case, then I get a light buzz and some crackling. More crackling when I change the volume. Buzz is actually loudest at about 2 o'clock. All that is extremely faint on low gain. If I also touch the side or the back of the case with my other hand at the same time, the noise goes away again.

Input set to Balanced: Hum, buzz, crackling when I touch the volume knob or the top of the case. I'm now writing this on my Surface Pro 4. When I unplug it, it's far less loud. When it was off and just charging, I heard a clicking noise that went away when I unplugged it, and a shorter, much louder buzz when I plugged it back in. Another noise source is a USB charger. The noise gets louder when I get close to the cable or the charger, and even louder when I touch the tip of the cable. Loudest on highest volume. Lower on low gain.

Input set to single ended: See balanced, just louder.

It's definitely noise from other devices. Which is fascinating, because here's my layout:

Furman PST-8D in outlet. It has two isolated sections with two outlets, and four more outlets.
Power strip in isolated section furthest away from the power cord. iFi iPurifier AC in the other outlet of that section. Another iPurifier AC in the first outlet of that power strip, cable to subwoofer (unplugged). Another iPurifier AC, cable to Jotunheim, cable to Topping DX7s (standby), cable to Vidar (powered off)
Power strip in one of the four additional outlets. Surface Pro 4 and two USB chargers in that one.
Power strip in another one of the four additional outlets. TV, modem, router, Harmony hub, Blu Ray player, AV receiver, cable box in that one.

So despite that supposed isolation and filtration of the PST-8D and three power conditioners helping out the Jotunheim, I get all that noise. Note that I'm running many of the cables in parallel, which probably contributes to the problem.

This is very fascinating! I'm soon getting a Niagara 1000 and fancy power cable to review, this is an excellent test for it, I would say!

 

[rutter]

This appears to be the least significant occurrence of noise though. Seems like for all three of us it's when there are no physical inputs, i.e. when the Jotunheim wouldn't be working. Could perhaps cast some doubt, but no clue whether there would be anything significant.

No powerlan adapters involved. It occurred to me that the CMA400i might not rule out a ground loop if that would require separate plugged in DACs and amps and I'm not sure the CMA400i allows its DAC to be coupled with an external amp. Ultimately I don't care too much as long as I get my money back, there are no such issues with the CMA400i, and the sound is satisfactory. I'm likely going to be spending some time with Schiit info. The Modi Multibit is 5-6 weeks old now and I'd prefer not to pay a restocking fee for the Jot.

@sixstringmonk What headphones are you using?

 

[rutter]

There is one detail I should point out that didn't occur to me. I use the "Lower volume to avoid clipping" option in Sonarworks, which I think reduces output by the db of the highest boost applied in equalization. I was not completely satisfied with the resulting sound on low gain, even when compensating with volume, so I've switched to high gain with the LCD-X. I suspect this is how I'm getting closer to the background noise threshold than sixstingmonk, and it really is a gradual progression as if I listen very closely it is identifiable earlier than when it might be rather clear albeit still low. As Sonarworks has an HE400i equalization too this might be why the background noise is occurring for me at a listening volume with that headphone, which is harder to drive. This might've been how I encountered the background noise in the first place. I got my Jotunheim a week ago, he got his two weeks ago. Maybe that's more than a coincidence although others should test. The thing is I have a separate Modi Multibit and I eventually run into this problem with a Magni 3 as well, although it's to a lesser extent and it's interesting that the Magni 3 in single end provides more power.

 

[Oklahoma]

If it hums with nothing plugged in and you are touching it that is sign of a bad ground somewhere. It could be in the wiring of the house, it could be the power cable. What happens is it is trying to use you or whatever is touching it as part of the ground, and depending on where you are touching it that will change the hum bad on how well you are making a circuit. Isolating the ground for the jot should fix it. Easiest way is with an EB Tech Hum X, or a power filter like a Panamax.

 

[the finisher]

I have very crappy wiring in my house. When I put my studio together I ran 2-20 amp circuits to the room using 10 awg stranded cable for the wire outside the wall. And exterior decorative boxes mounted to the floor, with isolated ground/hospital grade outlets. It's a semi-permanent solution that I could remove without a trace.
Both these lines have isolated grounding back to the breaker box, I use no exotic filtering/conditioning such as expensive Furman stuff.
Just the basic RF/EMI filters in my ESP Digital QC surge protectors, and a Emotive DC offset filter for Jot/Yggy.
My noisy gear (all the computers/networking ect...) are on 1 line, all my audio gear are on the other.
I enjoy no perceived noise on my system.

Edit: I also run a balanced system from end to end, and use shielded cables everywhere except my HP cables.
I have picked up noise from exposed RCA jacks, I use copper covers for them, on all RCA inputs on my gear.
My 4490 dac in the Jot is also silent, but I use a iFi iPurifier2 USB gizmo on it.

 

[rutter]

If it hums with nothing plugged in and you are touching it that is sign of a bad ground somewhere. It could be in the wiring of the house, it could be the power cable. What happens is it is trying to use you or whatever is touching it as part of the ground, and depending on where you are touching it that will change the hum bad on how well you are making a circuit. Isolating the ground for the jot should fix it. Easiest way is with an EB Tech Hum X, or a power filter like a Panamax.

So all three of us have a bad ground somewhere? We're also talking about pressing it, not touching it. Perhaps you should reread those parts and try this yourself. That noise is also constant if the MM is disconnected from it and has its USB cable disconnected while sitting on top of the Jot, yet if only the USB cable is connected to the computer the noise completely disappears with the MM in the same position. Does plugging in the USB cable between the MM and the computer create a great circuit through the rubber feet of the MM? And as I stated a few posts up, this is the least of my concerns as it occurs under circumstances when the Jot is practically useless. I thought you people were claiming the bad ground or ground loop would explain the noises during listening conditions, not this possibly academic noise. What would it mean if the CMA400i is silent, Oklahoma?

So despite that supposed isolation and filtration of the PST-8D and three power conditioners helping out the Jotunheim, I get all that noise. Note that I'm running many of the cables in parallel, which probably contributes to the problem.

Ground loop here too, Oklahoma? And I suppose you think the other two background noises I hear during listening conditions have to do with the my computer's USB ports, so I need to spend an extra like $150 on the Schiit Whatever? Should then reread sixstringmonk's post, and note that I have used three portable DACs/amps with no noise (and iFi sells one of these USB gadgets too except I didn't need it with the Micro and Nano Black Labels). I am not spending considerable money on trying to fix suspicious products unless problems persist with other products. CMA400i arrives today.

 

[the finisher]

Maybe there is a problem with the Jot. You should contact Schiit, they are very reasonable.
Sorry for your issues, hope you get it worked out.

 

[psuKinger]

Yes, all outputs, including the headphone outputs are active simultaneously.

This is great news.

Will the DAC still receive an input and output via the SE outputs while I have the amp set for inputs from the "SE inputs"?