[rutter]

I know, the thing is I'd probably have to send back the MM. Guess that gives me time to get well acquainted with the CMA400i before I return it. I hate doing what I'm currently doing, by the way. Constantly plugging and unplugging crap switching between two DACs/amps and trying to tell the differences, not to mention listening to the same song tens of times. Think I have to give the nod to Schiit here though. Funny thing is, I've been told that balanced DACs/amps that are primarily designed for balanced could sound significantly worse single ended. There's a possibility that's what the 400i is.

 

[hikaru12]

So here's my 48 hour impressions with the Jotunheim. When I first got the Jot in and had it plugged into my Gumby SE connections (was waiting for a balanced cables to hook it up) and with my balanced Audezes the immediate impression I got was from the slam of the subbass. The LCD 2.2's aren't super mid bass cannons so the deep subbass was incredibly punchy and satisfying. I'm not really sensitive to treble glare so I honestly liked the extra sizzle and crispness of cymbal crashes but the Jot did inject a little too much emphasis on 'ss' sounds and such. The other thing I noticed right away with the Jot was 'recessed' mids. Coming from such an 'in your face' headphone as the LCD-2 I expected the mids to be just as punchy. For reference, on SE mode with a balanced headphone cable I was sitting at about noon on the pot. This left me with a sour impression as I thought the Jot was supposed to be more aggressive and forward sounding. I attributed this to the leanness of the Jot overall. Comparing it directly to my HeadBox S which only cost me $130 I was amazed by how much more rich and pronounced the mids were on it. It sounded a lot clearer and more neutral, letting the warmness of the LCD-2's shine. The bass was very neutral and shy of what I knew the LCD 2's could bring out but still satisfying. I had begun to think I made a big mistake. I've been wanting to go balanced for the longest time and also because I prefer the heavy dutiness of the connector ever since I bought my first ZMF.

The next day after a full 24 hours of leaving the Jot on and getting a new pair of Colorado XLR's I finally had the amp fully balanced. My first impressions were the bass was still slamming but it gained a little bit more control. The most immedieate aspect is the amp sounded warmer. The treble was still there but it wasn't as etched as it sounded before. Speaking of which; by all accounts, I honestly don't think the Jot is bright but it's certainly not neutral. I believe the HeadBox at it's price is incredibly neutral and wire with a gain. In any case, the Jot sounded a bit more warmer and the bass slam was a bit more tighter. Clarity and micro-detail in reverbs especially improved. The Audezes from 2014 smeared over detail in favor of more bass and this quickly became apparent at the volume levels I was listening at. I still wasn't fully on board with the Jot until I did some back and forth testing with the Headbox to match volume levels both in low and high gain. Right now, at about 11 o clock on high gain is the perfect compromise. The subbass is still very punchy but it doesn't overwhelm the mids. The mids sound just as rich as they do before but with a bit of liveliness from the balanced connection and also because of the Jot's characteristics. I'd say overall it's definently a hair above the Headbox. I wouldn't say it's in a totally different league. You can get by with cheaper amps with these headphones as they are about 70 ohm impedance and good sensitivity. What I like about the Jot is all the power on deck if I switch to a lot less sensitive headphones in the future and the ability to go fully balanced.

The final full tweaks I'm going to make to my system are just power conditioning and possibly upgrading to a silver coaxial connection to the Gumby instead of the Optical connection going in. I'm a bit concerned that if I go with a silver electrical connection vs glass the sound will sound brighter and reduce the subbass, unfortunately I haven't been able to find an all copper coaxial cable that has great reviews and is still able to retrieve low level detail and clarity without affecting any of the other frequencies.

Overall, I'm quite satisfied with the Jot and it's a great amp for planars. I'm glad it's priced at it's price because I think at any higher and it wouldn't be able to compete. There are a lot of great SS amps out there for the money including balanced that make it hard to find what the real bargains are out there to be had.

For any owners of the Jot who didn't order the modules at the start (phono or DAC) is it possible to get it after the fact? I've read that the phono module on the Jot is quite good and I'd like to add it for my Project Carbon. I'm debating on some Martin Logans or DynAudios in my near future lol.

 

[RickB]

Yes, it’s possible to have the add-on boards installed after purchase. Look on the lower left side of the Schiit products page

 

[sup27606]

So here's my 48 hour impressions with the Jotunheim. When I first got the Jot in and had it plugged into my Gumby SE connections (was waiting for a balanced cables to hook it up) and with my balanced Audezes the immediate impression I got was from the slam of the subbass. The LCD 2.2's aren't super mid bass cannons so the deep subbass was incredibly punchy and satisfying. I'm not really sensitive to treble glare so I honestly liked the extra sizzle and crispness of cymbal crashes but the Jot did inject a little too much emphasis on 'ss' sounds and such. The other thing I noticed right away with the Jot was 'recessed' mids. Coming from such an 'in your face' headphone as the LCD-2 I expected the mids to be just as punchy. For reference, on SE mode with a balanced headphone cable I was sitting at about noon on the pot. This left me with a sour impression as I thought the Jot was supposed to be more aggressive and forward sounding. I attributed this to the leanness of the Jot overall. Comparing it directly to my HeadBox S which only cost me $130 I was amazed by how much more rich and pronounced the mids were on it. It sounded a lot clearer and more neutral, letting the warmness of the LCD-2's shine. The bass was very neutral and shy of what I knew the LCD 2's could bring out but still satisfying. I had begun to think I made a big mistake. I've been wanting to go balanced for the longest time and also because I prefer the heavy dutiness of the connector ever since I bought my first ZMF.

The next day after a full 24 hours of leaving the Jot on and getting a new pair of Colorado XLR's I finally had the amp fully balanced. My first impressions were the bass was still slamming but it gained a little bit more control. The most immedieate aspect is the amp sounded warmer. The treble was still there but it wasn't as etched as it sounded before. Speaking of which; by all accounts, I honestly don't think the Jot is bright but it's certainly not neutral. I believe the HeadBox at it's price is incredibly neutral and wire with a gain. In any case, the Jot sounded a bit more warmer and the bass slam was a bit more tighter. Clarity and micro-detail in reverbs especially improved. The Audezes from 2014 smeared over detail in favor of more bass and this quickly became apparent at the volume levels I was listening at. I still wasn't fully on board with the Jot until I did some back and forth testing with the Headbox to match volume levels both in low and high gain. Right now, at about 11 o clock on high gain is the perfect compromise. The subbass is still very punchy but it doesn't overwhelm the mids. The mids sound just as rich as they do before but with a bit of liveliness from the balanced connection and also because of the Jot's characteristics. I'd say overall it's definently a hair above the Headbox. I wouldn't say it's in a totally different league. You can get by with cheaper amps with these headphones as they are about 70 ohm impedance and good sensitivity. What I like about the Jot is all the power on deck if I switch to a lot less sensitive headphones in the future and the ability to go fully balanced.

The final full tweaks I'm going to make to my system are just power conditioning and possibly upgrading to a silver coaxial connection to the Gumby instead of the Optical connection going in. I'm a bit concerned that if I go with a silver electrical connection vs glass the sound will sound brighter and reduce the subbass, unfortunately I haven't been able to find an all copper coaxial cable that has great reviews and is still able to retrieve low level detail and clarity without affecting any of the other frequencies.

Overall, I'm quite satisfied with the Jot and it's a great amp for planars. I'm glad it's priced at it's price because I think at any higher and it wouldn't be able to compete. There are a lot of great SS amps out there for the money including balanced that make it hard to find what the real bargains are out there to be had.

For any owners of the Jot who didn't order the modules at the start (phono or DAC) is it possible to get it after the fact? I've read that the phono module on the Jot is quite good and I'd like to add it for my Project Carbon. I'm debating on some Martin Logans or DynAudios in my near future lol.

Thank you for your detailed review. The headphone that is often claimed to pair well with the Jot is Sennheiser 650, and from my experience, is well supported. Conversely, I haven’t heard any LCD series can with the jot. (In my opinion of course) The smooth treble nature of Sennheiser 650 compliments the unforgiving highs of the Jot, and the bass (which is a strong point for Jot) shines through, giving a balanced sound signature. Again, IMO, any headphone with crispy trebles with potentially some peaks in the FR can sound harsh with the Jot due to its unforgiving highs. I have the Audeze EL-8O to compare among the Jot and two other portable amps, Cayin C5 and ponoplayer, both with smoother sound signature than the Jot, and my hypothesis checks out in this case. Extending this further, could the pre-fazor LCD cans perform better with Jot than their fazor counterparts? I am planning on upgrading to a LCD can in future, but as of now don’t know the answer to this question.

I have come to realize, how subtle differences in source quality make a noticeable difference in the Jot sound, probably due to its revealing nature. For example, passing the USB signal through an Eitr (MacBook pro —> Eitr —> Mimby —> Jot) improves the smoothness of the highs. Recently, I found that among the two resampling options in Audirvana, iZotope and Sox, the Sox produces a smoother sound with more bass impact, better imaging and a deeper soundstage. Of course, I am talking in relation to the Sennheiser/Jot combination. Still, it’s no substitute for a tube amp in soundstage and imaging, but Sox noticeably improves these sound characteristics in Jot. The result is, you can observe the music rather than getting hit by it. It’s interesting, in one of the other forums, someone was commenting that with Sox the highs were shimmering. I didn’t feel that at all, probably because the Jot is already quite revealing in the highs, so the smoothness of the Sox is just complimentary. The point of bringing up the source characteristics is that, with a revealing amp like Jot, everything in the audio chain can make a noticeable difference, besides the headphones.

 

[GrussGott]

The final full tweaks I'm going to make to my system are just power conditioning and possibly upgrading to a silver coaxial connection to the Gumby instead of the Optical connection going in. I'm a bit concerned that if I go with a silver electrical connection vs glass the sound will sound brighter and reduce the subbass, unfortunately I haven't been able to find an all copper coaxial cable that has great reviews and is still able to retrieve low level detail and clarity without affecting any of the other frequencies.

Nice write up, a couple of thoughts from my listening impressions as a basshead with a Jot, atticus and Eikon using an Eitr/Mimby DAC:

(a.) I'm not a big believer in "silver=bright, copper isn't" - in my experience it comes down to cable geometry / construction that determines the brightness and cables with sliver in them are typically better construction so there's correlation, but it's not causation. I was happy to see that currawong seems to agree with this observation as he's heard a lot more equipment than I have

(b.) I've consistently found toslink to be inferior to good USB (e.g,. the Shiit gen 5 or eitr) and I don't even bother with it anymore

(c.) If you're looking for great coax cable, AQ carbon was a giant improvement over the bluejeans that I was using - i.e, "giant" within the scope of what a digital cable can do

(d.) I haven't found much difference in SE or Bal from the dac so I've held off going Gumby, but I did find difference in a Jot that was on for 24-36 hours (I just leave it on always now), and in a high quality power cable. Shiit claims there's no benefit in the power cable, but boy is my experience different. Upgrading to a simple shielded 14awg pangea eliminated noise. At some point in the future I may try a wireworld aurora or electra ...

So, for me, I'm debating which I should upgrade first: upgrade from the eitr/mimby to an yggy and then later an amp or upgrade from the jot to a decware or ampsandsound and then later an yggy ... hmmm .... trying to decide how much I like the Jot with ZMF dynamics ...

 

[hikaru12]

Extending this further, could the pre-fazor LCD cans perform better with Jot than their fazor counterparts?

Possibly, the prefazor LCDs had a bit more subbass and a darker tilt with richer mids but the mids were not as detailed. The refinements by the fazor did cut out the subbass and improved detail. I have heard improved detail by using different headphone cables. Heidstat Nordost cables improved micro-detail a bit but kind of cut out on bass impact. The 2K cable made by Zach from ZMF is quite good but can't resolve the microdetail of the Nordost. I think I prefer the 2K and would opt to change something else in my system to retain the detail. The Jot really sounds fine to me when warmed up. Not bright or harsh in the slightest.

I wouldn't say the Jot is super revealing or transparent. My old Dragon Inspire tube amp was incredibly transparent and could pick out detail quite well but the Jot is moderately good at source changes. I can definitely tell a difference between several analog cables in the setup. I'm going to have to get longer RCA's so some Columbias or Niagras might be up my alley. I wonder if this transparency applies to all of the Jots outputs, in my case, specifically, the phono section which I plan on getting.

in my experience it comes down to cable geometry / construction

I agree with you, plain OCC is more bassy and V shaped, whereas Litz reveals more detail but retains warmth and smoothness. I've noticed this with comparing a Nordost Heidstat cable with ZMF 2K stranded cable and several other aftermarket headphone cables. The cable I'm specifically referring to for Coaxial is the Nordost Silver Shadow which uses the same monofilament design as my headphone cable - I might be able to conclude then that it should be smooth with better detail with a little less boom to the bass. Not really sure. It's the only real affordable coaxial cable without going out and spending another $800 to see a minor change lol. Thanks for your input!

 

[sup27606]

(c.) If you're looking for great coax cable, AQ carbon was a giant improvement over the bluejeans that I was using - i.e, "giant" within the scope of what a digital cable can do

Thanks for that information. What are the areas you found the biggest improvement in, microdetails and instrument separation?

 

[GrussGott]

Thanks for that information. What are the areas you found the biggest improvement in, microdetails and instrument separation?

Exactly - it was was an immediate "oh yeah" and then I switched back for a bit and got the veil back, and then back again for the "ok definitely"; for me it especially cleaned up some of the treble glare you hear a lot around the jot.

As a side note, I spoke with some signal engineers (who work on industrial and military applications) on why, and their analogy was to think of the entire chain like 5 stacked panes of glass you look through: if you live by the ocean and all of the panes have light salt mist on them, and you replace just one of the center panes with clean glass, you won't notice much of a difference ... But if you flip that around and have 5 clean panes and insert one dirty one in the stack, you'll notice it. So that was their recommendation: replace all the interconnects with high quality cables - if you hear a difference, keep them, if you don't, return them, but don't try to replace just one. AQ carbon was my most comfy price point for USB and digital coax and to my ears there's clearly a difference over the cheaper pangea usb and bluejeans cables/interconnects I was using. (they also recommended not stacking the dac on the amp, not letting any of the cables touch anything, and keeping vibrations down, e.g., don't stack on top of a mini-fridge cabinet, etc)

As I mentioned in other posts this 100% eliminated any Jot noise and sound annoyances I had: macbook > eitr > mimby > jot

Caveat Audiophilia: this is my experience based on listening impressions. No bing-bong devices or wobbly line doohickies were used in my evaluation (nor required for me for positive outcomes, YMMV, blah blah blah)

 

[rutter]

I'm using the Jotunheim with the cma400i's DAC currently and there is serious background noise not quite at listening level but close (actually it does overlap with listening volume). It's once again a combination of noises but the most prominent is uneven, it's mostly consistent but it has clear breaks. What exactly is this supposed to be indicative of? A ground loop or the USB connection? Am I guaranteed to eliminate these noises if I attack both of these potential sources of noise?

By the way, if I turn the cma400i off the noise is there only in my right ear... unplugging the RCA right right cable only moves the noise to the left ear.

 

[GrussGott]

I'm using the Jotunheim with the cma400i's DAC currently and there is serious background noise not quite at listening level but close. It's once again a combination of noises but the most prominent is uneven, it's mostly consistent but it has clear breaks. What exactly is this supposed to be indicative of? A ground loop or the USB connection? Am I guaranteed to eliminate these noises if I attack both of these potential sources of noise?

No. Here's why:

Ever buy a sports car? Many people think because they're more expensive they'll be easier to use when actually they're harder because they require configuration to perform well for that driver. You seem to expect you can buy expensive audio gear, but not do any configuration, and have everything work great. That's how iphone and earbuds work, but not mid-fi (like a jot) and certainly not hi-fi. The only thing we can do is tell you what worked for us, but you've been a dick to everyone trying to help you - here, I'll show you:

Rutter, what usually works to eliminate noise is to buy good quality shielded interconnects from Blue Jeans, Audioquest, or similar and a Shiit Eitr or similar USB isolation device to clean up the USB. Also, buy a good, shielded power cable for your Jot and plug it directly into the wall by itself - don't use cheater plugs or power strips until you figure out the source of the noise. Try moving all over the house (including the basement or garage if you have them) to see if you hear changes which can help you identify the source of the problem: could be noisy mains, could be noisy usb, could be stray EMI, could be bad or defective cables, could be your equipment itself. Bring your equip to a buddy's house and try it there. Try different headphones. All of that said, any reputable audio dealer will let you return high-quality cables within 30 or 60 days so for me that's the easiest first thing to try (and they usually work which is why the return policy is generous).

 

[rutter]

You're the only one who has suggested the interconnects could be an issue (which ticks me off as I spent a fair change of money on Schiit's own cables) and until this thread I hadn't encountered any of this. You yourself stated Schiit don't think a power cord makes a difference and you'd think they'd feel fine about their interconnect cables too. Nonetheless, I'll do what is necessary to eliminate or diminish this noise. I've ordered a Bimby with USB gen5 and a Hum X. Your suggestions will follow if I don't get satisfactory results. Wouldn't it be a peach if nothing helps. I'll see. Hoping I won't have to rob a bank to get to the bottom of this. I can only push returns so far.

 

[GrussGott]

You yourself stated Schiit don't think a power cord makes a difference and you'd think they'd feel fine about their interconnect cables too.

I hear you, but then how would Schiit know given they don't live in your house and plug their equipment into your outlets? At the end of the day Rutter, if you want great sound, you're going to have to custom configure it yourself - no equipment vendor can or will do that for you.

Just this very day, Paul McGown, the founder of PS Audio, and an audio engineer for the last 40+ years, said he hasn't yet designed a fully integrated product because they're not exactly sure how to do it right yet. Now some people love his stuff and some hate it, but the DSjr competes with the yggy for a top spot so they're doing something right.

 

[rutter]

The thing is this doesn't appear to be anything more than a technical issue- it doesn't pertain to sound quality. And thankfully so to be honest as if I found out I have to spend even more money on even more stuff just to get a satisfactory sound out of $1k+ headphones I'd start putting curses on people. No one knows this isn't an issue with the device itself, by the way (although with the number of people reporting some noise it seems like a Catch 22). I'm thinking that if the Hum X and the Bimby don't resolve this I'll invoke the warranty and request for Schiit to inspect it.

 

[mwr2700]

...I'd start putting curses on people

 

[GrussGott]

I have to spend even more money on even more stuff just to get a satisfactory sound out of $1k+ headphones I'd start putting curses on people.

start putting curses on people

Rutter, you bought an expensive car and expect to win your first race - that's not how enthusiast hobbies work: It takes time, experience, research, intellectual curiousity and - yup - more money. (<- btw, that's called "negative compounding")

You don't get magic just cause you have the equipment - ask any lady. Not that I'd know. A friend told me that. From Canada. You wouldn't know her.