[Razor1991]

  You want to make the DT-770 balanced so that its more portable?  Or do you want to make the cable removable and balanced at the same time?  To make them balanced and removable you need to get a new 4 conductor cable and either a 4 pin mini-XLR or make the DT-770 dual inlet.  This is my DT-990 with dual inlet removable cables:
 
Another reason to go with dual inlet mini-XLR is that you can use Audeze LCD series cables.

No haha.
I just asked him if it's worth the effort and than just mentioned my 770 model (80 ohm) because he has the 250ohm. The reason I choose the 80 ohm is that I want those headphones to be more portable (easy to drive with a portable amp) 

 

[Voxata]

I did two 2.5mm mono for my DT770 removable cable mod.

 

[Triggaaar]

   
Please explain -- the benefits of a balanced DAC should be the same regardless of price.

 
I understand the benefit of headphones not sharing a signal for left and right. That signal is not shared between a DAC and amp is it? And on a very short run between DAC and Amp I can't imagine there's going to be much noise. Although I would expect any benefit, if any exists, to be small, I can understand that if you're spending a lot on a TOTL DAC and Amp then you want every last possible benefit. On more budget systems, there is definite room for improvement in other areas, and I'm not sure a balanced signal between DAC and Amp would be noticeable.If there is a noticeable benefit, please tell me why, I'm willing to learn.

 

[watchnerd]

   
I understand the benefit of headphones not sharing a signal for left and right. That signal is not shared between a DAC and amp is it? And on a very short run between DAC and Amp I can't imagine there's going to be much noise. Although I would expect any benefit, if any exists, to be small, I can understand that if you're spending a lot on a TOTL DAC and Amp then you want every last possible benefit. On more budget systems, there is definite room for improvement in other areas, and I'm not sure a balanced signal between DAC and Amp would be noticeable.If there is a noticeable benefit, please tell me why, I'm willing to learn.

 
Using a balanced configuration within the DAC itself (left +, left -, right +, right -) allows for lower noise and, most importantly, randomization of DAC non-linearity.

 

[Triggaaar]

   
Using a balanced configuration within the DAC itself (left +, left -, right +, right -) allows for lower noise and, most importantly, randomization of DAC non-linearity.

But Jot and Modi multibit doesn't use a balanced configuration, and everyone agrees it's better. Who here has done blind testing on a balanced connection between DAC and Amp and noticed a difference? And with what equipment?
 
 
Here's just a quick example of where I get the idea that the DAC is the comparatively weak part:
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by fjrabon 

Got to spend a little bit of head time on Sunday with the m9XX and the Joty head to head.  And the results were more or less as you'd expect.  Joty is very clearly a more capable amp than the m9XX.  It's not night and day, but the difference is there.  A bit more dynamic.  However, the DAC on the m9XX was a bit better, IMHO.  Both units sound to me very neutral.  The m9XX is maybe a smidge smoother, and the Joty a bit more detailed, but that difference is fairly miniscule.  I'd say they're very similar units on the whole tonality wise, just with different capabilities.  I still love the crossfeed capabilities of the m9XX, and not needing a wall wart can be a plus for the m9XX in certain situations.
 
Overall, I'd say if you need amping versatility, go with the Jotenheim; it can drive everything from IEMs to the HE6 well.  It may not be the best amp in the world for every headphone, but it will acquit itself well with anything you throw at it.  If you have exclusively medium to easy to drive single ended headphones, go with the m9XX, as the better DAC will shine, and it has more features and more versatility use wise.  

 

[watchnerd]

 
But Jot and Modi multibit doesn't use a balanced configuration, and everyone agrees it's better.
 

 
I was answering a technical question about why a balanced DAC has benefits.
 
Subjective preferences are a different issue.  
 
Also, "everyone" seems a bit hyperbole given the sample size.

 

[mattlach]

 
Also, "everyone" seems a bit hyperbole given the sample size.

 
True,  but in this thread, it seems that in the tradeoff between balanced Delta Sigma, and Single Ended multibit, single ended multibit is winning the opinion war by a rather wide margin.

 

[Triggaaar]

   
I was answering a technical question about why a balanced DAC has benefits.
 
Subjective preferences are a different issue.  
 
Also, "everyone" seems a bit hyperbole given the sample size.

 
You're saying that there are technical differences between balanced and non balanced DAC to Amp connection. I simply said that I wasn't convinced of the benefit (with regard to sound quality). I'm still not.

 
Well I've read pretty much all of this thread, and while I've seen several people say the DAC is good for $100, I've also seen several say they prefer the Jot with a separate DAC, and I've not seen anyone say they prefer the sound from the in-built DAC than any separate DAC they've tried. I'm not suggesting that makes it fact, it's just the only evidence I've seen. So is your experience different? Have you compared the in-built DAC to an external DAC and found the internal to be as good or better?

 

[watchnerd]

   
True,  but in this thread, it seems that in the tradeoff between balanced Delta Sigma, and Single Ended multibit, single ended multibit is winning the opinion war by a rather wide margin.

 
And yet if you go into professional recording studios, you see balanced + DS/SD everywhere.
 
Which group would you rate more highly in terms of their expertise?

 

[watchnerd]

   So is your experience different? Have you compared the in-built DAC to an external DAC and found the internal to be as good or better?

 
My experience is different, yes.
 
I find the differences between well implemented DAC chips to be relatively small compared to the differences between analog stages with different topologies (which shouldn't be that surprising to anyone with basic EE knowledge).
 
Therefore, given a finite budget, I tend to favor spending more for the better analog stage.  Upgrade the chip later, once you've reached end-game on the analog side.
 
After all, it's the analog side the drives your headphones / speakers.  Not the chips.

 

[mattlach]

 

And yet if you go into professional recording studios, you see balanced + DS/SD everywhere.

Which group would you rate more highly in terms of their expertise?

Well, they are different applications for different uses.

In a recording studio it is absolutely crucial that your masters wind up with as little noise as possible, when using long cables, and as such balanced will be absolutely crucial.

I have no doubt the studios could benefit from multibit over delta sigma, but the technology (with a few notable exceptions) hasn't really made its way there yet.

In a world where the final album mix is almost always compressed to 96% volume across the board for radio playback, completely sacrificing dynamic range, and introducing sound quality quantization error effects due to wasting most of the 16 bits of the output format, optimal quality isn't necessarily the priority unfortunately, when they know most of their customers are going to be playing it back on unsophisticated hardware, and won't care, and will respond more to the loudness war than they will to actual quality, it doesn't become a priority in most cases.

The positive news - however - is that the loudness war is reportedly starting to die down, and maybe just maybe some multibit equipment will wind up in studios soon.   I remember from reading Jason Stoddard's book that Mike Moffat had contracted on a project to get some multibit technology into recording studios.  I forget the details though.   

 

[zeissiez]

For 100 more, getting the Jot with the DAC is not a bad decision. It's fine for music if u don't compare.

 

[bassaddicted]

After only 4 hours of use, I'm probably sending my Jot with DAC module back. It's a quality product, but just not what I'm looking for. If anyone wants mine let me know soon.

 

[mattlach]

It's fine for music if u don't compare.

 
Lol.   You must have forgotten which forums you are on...  

 

[Triggaaar]

For 100 more, getting the Jot with the DAC is not a bad decision. It's fine for music if u don't compare.

Damned with faint praise