[BarDash]

Not meaning to get into the whole source/cable/etc discussion but I can absolutely say the microRendu is serious business - I bought it exclusively to test and see if it would wield any improvements over my (very expensive) desktop computer with no expectations whatsoever. It did, maybe not $700 worth because my computer is about as optimized as can be but if you're currently using a laptop or a less high end pc I'd say it should be worth the investment.

Plus folks much more knowledgeable than I that have tested similar devices priced in the several thousands of dollars have said the mRendu actually smokes the competition regardless of tag so if it turns out it doesn't do anything for your chain and/or ears then you can just not bother with streamers/servers any more and spend your money elsewhere.

Thank you Vigirth I'm never sure quite where to find this information.

 

[ld100]

When reading some of these posts I understand that basic understanding of electronics is not something they teach in computer science lessons.
What goes down a cable is not a bunch of Ones and Zeroes but a varying voltage (e.g. 5V TTL square pulse) that is NOT insensitive to variations in cable capacitance, inductance, etc.
In the receiving end in many instances there exist a Schmitt-trigger that decides if the rising and trailing edge is above or below the voltage threshold set. There also exist a hysteresis to include in this binary equation. If you transfer a file the file will remain in bit perfect stage, however if you stream data as analog signals (because this is actually what you do) you might risk getting timing or phase errors which our ears are extremely sensitive to. A trained conductor ear can detect timing errors down to as little as a 5üs.
Now, for USB, packets of data are transferred and recreated in the receiving end, so the elaborations above is not as critical as for e.g. S/PDIF over coax.
However, I still think that bold statements in one direction or another needs to be backed up with all aspects that matters for transmitters, receivers and cable in-between before ruling out whether significant influences that might affect our audible perception exist.

 
 
Just because you think you know does not mean you do my friend... Not sure how USB in your understanding is "stream data as analog signals". It is not analog period. It is digital. Bits and zeroes.
 
Before it gets any further here are few good reads:
 
1.
http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/rowe-s-and-columns/4421042/Can-You-Hear-the-Difference-
 
2. 
http://www.edn.com/design/consumer/4403381/USB-audio-simplified
 
 
But you are more than welcome to buy a $1000 dollar USB cable. And I also have a bridge for sale if you need one...

 

[Mirakoolz]

   
 
Just because you think you know does not mean you do my friend... Not sure how USB in your understanding is "stream data as analog signals". It is not analog period. It is digital. Bits and zeroes.
 

this is not correct
 
digital signals are representations on a analog waveform
analog signal means a continuous one.. just like how vinyl records dont have any breaks in their grooves
 
a digital receiver will receive a analog waveform (a signal without any breaks) and pick out the digital representations on this waveform based on its High/Low (1/0) threshold

 

[ld100]

  this is not correct
 
digital signals are representations on a analog waveform
analog signal means a continuous one.. just like how vinyl records dont have any breaks in their grooves
 
a digital receiver will receive a analog waveform (a signal without any breaks) and pick out the digital representations on this waveform based on its High/Low (1/0) threshold

 
Technically the implementation is analog signal... Data is digital: bits. Digital data is not altered by USB cable. Buying more expensive USB cable will not make what comes out more musical, spacious, fuller, warmer, sweeter, wider. If you want to argue for the sake of arguing you are correct that current is analog. But data that is passed by USB cable is digital. Please, take a look at the article in the link I posted above that explains how it works.  

 

[Mirakoolz]

Technically the implementation is analog signal... Data is digital: bits. Digital data is not altered by USB cable. Buying more expensive USB cable will not make what comes out more musical, spacious, fuller, warmer, sweeter, wider. If you want to argue for the sake of arguing you are correct that current is analog. But data that is passed by USB cable is digital. Please, take a look at the article in the link I posted above that explains how it works.  

Thank you. My comment was in regards to yours where u mentioned there's nothing analog about a digital signal but you've since cleared that up

See my last few posts - you'll see I'm not a believer in digital cabling

 

[earnmyturns]

I have a no-DAC Jotunheim fed by a Bimby. I've been able to hear improvements by changing the digital side upstream of the Bimby, but I doubt they have anything to do with the shape and timing of the electrical pulses encoding the bits. As some have noted above, basic digital transmission is not too sensitive to the exact electrical representation of the bits. What varies a lot more is the electrical noise coming down USB or coax from the digital source to the DAC. Garden variety computers don't pay much attention to what electrical junk they put on USB outputs provided that the bits are still readable. Mediocre power supplies and heavy non-music computing create a lot of high-frequency junk that aliases into lower, audible frequencies in nonlinear circuitry. It's a hard challenge for the DAC to keep out all that junk from its analog side, so it's best if your digital source is designed to keep the junk to a minimum. I've heard definite improvements over previous setups with the Sonore microRendu powered with good supplies, especially the new Uptone LPS-1. That way, I get excellent quality for $1500 on the digital side (cheap Intel NUC music server, microRendu and LPS-1). No need for fancy USB cables, Schiit PYST is fine.

 

[Hunki Chunki]

I do wonder though, with the separate DACs for each channel, how that helps (lessen the load on each? etc)
 
Seeing how the higher priced Schitt DACs have up to TWO DACs PER channel for a total of 4.

 

[Frode Roed]

Thank you. My comment was in regards to yours where u mentioned there's nothing analog about a digital signal but you've since cleared that up

See my last few posts - you'll see I'm not a believer in digital cabling

I think the misconception here is that USB delivers packets of data.
To say that zeroes and ones are delivered over a cable (not talking about Toslink lightpulses) and not analog voltage representing those bits puts a smile on my face.

 

[BarDash]

A noob to Head Fi's impression on the Jot/Modi Multibit: Having owned both now for a couple of months I can unequivocally say that I really love this combo. I'm trading off between a HD800S & Ether C both balanced.
The Ether C to my ears seems warmer whilst the HD800S seems overall more musical and enjoyable to listen to especially since I added a Wywires Platinum balanced cable.
This is the closest I've come to really recommending anything on my short time on Head Fi so pardon me If I don't know all the proper terminology....
One day, funds pending I'd love to try a Yggy with the Jot.
My WA7 fireflies 2nd gen has been totally neglected since purchasing this combo

 

[earnmyturns]

  I do wonder though, with the separate DACs for each channel, how that helps (lessen the load on each? etc)
 
Seeing how the higher priced Schitt DACs have up to TWO DACs PER channel for a total of 4.

Schiit uses instrumentation-grade R2R chips from Analog Devices, not the much more common delta-sigma chips in most other DACs. The R2R chips implement single channel 16 bit depth conversion. The Modi and Bifrost multibit DACs convert only the top 16 bits of the incoming PCM samples, so they need two chips, one per channel. The Gungnir and the Yggdrasil keep more bits, so they need two per channel, one for the higher-order bits and the another for the lower-order bits. The delta-sigma DAC chips used in most other DACs are much simpler so they can pack the whole process for two channels into a single chip (at some cost in quality), although higher-end delta-sigma DACs typically use one chip for each channel to improve conversion quality. There are also some very pricey R2R DACs with discrete resistor ladders rather than DAC chips, but that's a whole other story.

 

[jimmers]

...The R2R chips implement single channel 16 bit depth conversion. ...
 
...The Gungnir and the Yggdrasil keep more bits, so they need two per channel, one for the higher-order bits and the another for the lower-order bits...

Sorry, but -
 
Bimby and Mimby use a single 16 bit 2 channel DAC (AD5547)
 
Gungnir and the Yggdrasil use a single channel DAC (AD5781 18 bits, AD5791 20 bits respectively). They have 2 chips per channel for balanced output.

 

[earnmyturns]

  Sorry, but -
 
Bimby and Mimby use a single 16 bit 2 channel DAC (AD5547)
 
Gungnir and the Yggdrasil use a single channel DAC (AD5781 18 bits, AD5791 20 bits respectively). They have 2 chips per channel for balanced output.

Groan, never try to remember these details from an obviously fuzzy memory. Do you remember how the Yggy gets 21 bits effective with those 20 bit parts?

 

[ray-dude]

  Groan, never try to remember these details from an obviously fuzzy memory. Do you remember how the Yggy gets 21 bits effective with those 20 bit parts?

 
I'd love to read up on the gory details on Bimby/Gimby/Yggy DACs.  Alas, the discussion around these DACs is so rich, that search is not your friend, and the AD product sheets don't help much, since they don't have a reference design for these sorts of MB audio DACs.  If anyone has favorited some key posts, please PM (I'll be wading through search results this weekend)

 

[Hunki Chunki]

  Groan, never try to remember these details from an obviously fuzzy memory. Do you remember how the Yggy gets 21 bits effective with those 20 bit parts?

Always a learning experience. Which makes it fun. haha

 

[jimmers]

... Do you remember how the Yggy gets 21 bits effective with those 20 bit parts?

It is a mathematical aggregate of chips each running at 20-bit (don't ask me how, if I told you I'd have to kill you) 

 
 
Edit: A recent review of the Modi multi in Hi-Fi World the editor was crying about it's 96dB SNR, "This is well below CD that nowadays comes in at 102dB", although 96dB gives an ENOB of 16 bits; he was used to Sigma Delta chips which usually have a balanced out per channel - aggregating to an ENOB of 17 bits.
 
(ENOB, effective number of bits)