[tesarpa]

Saga2 with Balance input and output

It's there, called Freya.

 

[Soundmancan]

The vali 2 has been the worst amp from Schiit that I owned. It Severely lacked of detail and was distorted (could not hear but feel) like hell that gave me headache everytime using it

It's unfortunate that you had a bad experience with the Vali 2, could you possibly elaborate as to your complete chain that you had the Vali 2 incorporated in? I use to have the Vali 2 paired with a modi multibit using HD 600, Hd 6xx and it sounded mighty fine to me. Currently, I have the Jot 2 and the Vali 2+ both hooked up to my Bifrost 2 and listening with the Hd600, Focal Elex and Hifiman Arya. They both sound great to my ears and I support the person's conclusions that you quoted in your post.

 

[Smoothstereo]

For those who want to use the Jot2 but want a bit of tube flavor, adding a Vali2 (or Vali2+) between the Jot2 and the dac is a viable option. I have been using the Vali2 as a tube preamp/buffer in between my Jot2 and BF2 for the past several days and it sounds very good.

As I mentioned in one of my earlier posts, Jot2 shines the most when listening with Balanced input and output as it provides better separation, blacker background, and each instrument is so distinctive and sounds more precise. This allows you to hear into the music more in this manner.

But using the Vali2 as a tube preamp/buffer brings different set of attributes to the table. Yes, by going this route, you will have to use SE RCA from dac to Vali2 and RCA into the Jot2, breaking the full Balance connection.

However, the trade offs if we can call it that, is you will lose a very small smidgen of that separation, blacker background, and that distinctiveness/precision, but you gain a bit of euphonics, a bit longer decay, luscious mids, more smoothness, ease of flow, and less glare, less edge. The differences are not night and day, but enough to notice.

I actually find myself listening to this Schiit Triple Play combo more than the Double Play Jot2/BF2 lately. Some songs like Dido's Slide song was so 3D, and ethereal, it moved me. To me, full Balance seeks the truth from the recording where as with Vali2 in the chain, seeks the fun and emotion from the recording. Great to have both options.

Must note that I use the large dual 6J5G tubes on my Vali2 with adapter, I find the two tubes offer better stereo separation vs the single 6922 variants. I am also a believer in nicer quality interconnects, power cables, and power conditioning. So as they say YMMV. But just wanted to share my experience in case others were interested.

Forgot to mention, when I use the Vali2 as a tube preamp/buffer, I feed the RCA out from BF2 to Vali2, with the volume pot turned all the way up on Low Gain, then RCA out to Jot2. I listen by using the 4 pin XLR hp out and control volume with the Jot2's knob.

With a flick of the Jot2's input switch, I can either enjoy Balance feed direct from BF2 or choose the RCA input and enjoy the tube flavor from the Vali2/BF2. Easy to compare both styles this way too after volume matching.

 

[In1unison]

Thanks @In1unison I think I'm going to pull the trigger on one, schiit hasn't let me down yet

Will post impressions after I spend some time with Freya+ between my DAC and Jot2.

Okay, I have now put Freya+ in between my DAC and Jot2. Running BAL throughout/ stock tubes on Freya+ (Tung-Sol)/ listening volume level @ 80dB
I will describe the effect on both Arya and LCD-2F, however, this is not a comparison of the headphones.

Arya - frequencies from upper mids and up have more energy, HF definitely more sparkle, and perception of more space between the instruments, hence better layering. No change in soundstage size and details, although they are more noticeable in HF, having more energy. Background atmospheric sounds are more prominent. Where natural sibilance exists in the recording it is accentuated on Arya. "Hot" recordings, in particular violins, are unlistenable to my ears. From midbass and lower, I think I hear better punch, but can's say for sure. Female vocals are slightly brought forward.
Arya samples
- Manu Katche, No rush - My goodness enter Elysium! From about 2:30 to 3:10, cymbals are the best I have ever heard. Similar on the opening of Oregon's, Northwest Passage.
- Rachel Podger, JS Bach's Concerto for Two Violins, BWV 1043: Vivace is my test track for harshness - in short unlistenable and besides recording engineer of this album should be shot! Another track that really sounds awful was Nguyên Lê, Byzance
- Vox Clamantis, O Maria - Wonderful recording, but accentuated sibilance at the beginning of the piece. Echo through the recoding space (must be the church) is pure magic!
LCD-2F - see above for Arya, but with the following exceptions. Not so much sparkle, but more energy at HF gives the illusion of more detail. The soundstage is noticeably larger, with better imaging and layering. However, it is not turning LCD into Arya. No sibilance, and no harshness whatsoever but it gives electric guitars, violins more incisiveness. From midbass and lower, more texture and impact. A better definition of the bass guitar, both electric and acoustic
LCD-2F samples
- Al Di Meola, Race with Devil on Spanish Highway opening bass is to die for. As I said above, more definition and punch without bloating the sound!
- The Art of Noise, Paranoimia (from In Visible Silence) - almost as spacious as on Arya, unbelievable.
- Jhene Aiko, The Pressure - For all the bass-heads out there. This is how R&B reproduction should sound, just make sure you do not blow your brains out, keep that volume down.
- Dominique Fils-Aime, Birds - Great acoustic bass line full of texture and goodness

In conclusion, great fun with somewhat mixed results. If I did not have Valh2, Freya+ will definitely stay in the chain for LCD-2F. Not so much with Arya, but for few notable exceptions.

 

[In1unison]

May I ask the name of the $5k rigs? Tks

Amps: HeadAmp GS-X, Sennheiser HDV 820, Auris HA2-SE, and Vioelectric HPA V281
Headphones: Focal Utopia, LCD-4z, Kennerton Thror, and ZMF Verite Closed

In no way am I suggesting LCD-2F > Valh2 is "better" than any combination of the above equipment which are all great in their own right. But in combination with my DAC and my ears, it is a very unique sound that I enjoy so much. I haven't touched the factory-supplied tubes nor did I modified LCD in any way (using standard old Audeze balanced cable). Subjective

 

[Odin412]

I would be very interested in a Saga2 with Balance input and output so that I can keep it all balance connected with some tube flavoring. Although I don't have my Mjolnir2 anymore to compare, but if a Saga2 with Balance ins and outs between the Jot2 and BF2, that will be an interesting concoction.

You should take a look at Freya, which is the Schiit balanced preamp. It's physically larger than the Saga though.

 

[TheAuthor]

You should take a look at Freya, which is the Schiit balanced preamp. It's physically larger than the Saga though.

And it's also more than twice the price, which is probably why trading some of Saga+'s RCA ins/outs for balanced (if that would even fit) could be very attractive

 

[In1unison]

And it's also more than twice the price, which is probably why trading some of Saga+'s RCA ins/outs for balanced (if that would even fit) could be very attractive

The difference is also that Freya+ has a pure tube stage while Saga+ has a hybrid one.

 

[tincanear]

And it's also more than twice the price, which is probably why trading some of Saga+'s RCA ins/outs for balanced (if that would even fit) could be very attractive

If you want discrete transistors (instead of an IC based solution) the cost is more in the tightly matched transistors needed for the balanced gain stage, rather than the RCA & XLR connectors.

Saga sized chassis can fit one set of RCA and XLR inputs & outputs, and maybe an extra set of RCA's (aka Jot 2 rear panel)

 

[senorx12562]

Amps: HeadAmp GS-X, Sennheiser HDV 820, Auris HA2-SE, and Vioelectric HPA V281
Headphones: Focal Utopia, LCD-4z, Kennerton Thror, and ZMF Verite Closed

In no way am I suggesting LCD-2F > Valh2 is "better" than any combination of the above equipment which are all great in their own right. But in combination with my DAC and my ears, it is a very unique sound that I enjoy so much. I haven't touched the factory-supplied tubes nor did I modified LCD in any way (using standard old Audeze balanced cable). Subjective

My experience was the complete opposite. When I used either my he500s or lcd2s fed by the Valhalla 2 it sounded like something was broken. Sounded fantastic driving the hd600s though. I have never been able to get decent results trying to drive planars with an otl tube amplifier. I have never tried with a high dollar otl like a Glenn though. The he500 was worse than the lcd2 by some ways however. Just not enough current, and the Valhalla 2's power output is optimized for higher impedance cans. Combined with the he500's insensitivity it was a mismatch. The lcd2 just sounded mushy and uncontrolled. Hybrids and transformer coupled amps were fine though, in fact the Sundaras sound great from the Vali 2. As you said-subjective I guess. Oh wait, maybe I was fooled by marketing and bias, which must be why my Gungnir MB sounds so much better than the Modi, its all in my head. I am a psychosomatic audiophile. Who knew?

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

Guys I have a question. Can I use any female (edit: 4 pin) XLR to 3.5mm male adapter to run a balanced cable to an SE amp?

Converting balanced to unbalanced. I have an Emu Teak that I only have a balanced cable for and want to be able to plug into an SE amp at times, so I was wondering if this was ok?

I don't wanna know what cable is better or whatever whatever snake oil. I just wanna know if this works properly, as there are times I have to test other amps.

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

Edit: nvm on this post, as the Vali 2+ as a tube buffer for the Jot 2 was already discussed recently.

 

[tincanear]

Guys I have a question. Can I use any female XLR to 3.5mm male adapter to run a balanced cable to an SE amp?

Converting balanced to unbalanced. I have an Emu Teak that I only have a balanced cable for and want yo be able to plug into an SE amp at times, so I was wondering if this was ok?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08HRNSFBZ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_3EA59FH1KFCVFTX4BS1X

yes, balanced HP's (4-pin XLR) can be driven from an SE amp. alternatively the SE amp (TRS jack) with suitable stereo Y splitter can drive dual mono (separate left & right) 3-pin XLR's (negative phase of each XLR would be grounded or terminated to ground with a low impedance resistor). item you linked to doesn't look like it would work (described as mono mike to XXX adapter) and might damage the amp.

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

yes, balanced HP's (4-pin XLR) can be driven from an SE amp. alternatively the SE amp (TRS jack) with suitable stereo Y splitter can drive dual mono (separate left & right) 3-pin XLR's (negative phase of each XLR would be grounded or terminated to ground with a low impedance resistor). item you linked to doesn't look like it would work (described as mono mike to XXX adapter) and might damage the amp.

Oh DUH. I dunno why I linked a 3 pin.

Thanks for the reply.

I went and ordered this:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07D7LG5B...abc_K8CAM3PEKB7WJ83B77G7?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

 

[In1unison]

My experience was the complete opposite. When I used either my he500s or lcd2s fed by the Valhalla 2 it sounded like something was broken. Sounded fantastic driving the hd600s though. I have never been able to get decent results trying to drive planars with an otl tube amplifier. I have never tried with a high dollar otl like a Glenn though. The he500 was worse than the lcd2 by some ways however. Just not enough current, and the Valhalla 2's power output is optimized for higher impedance cans. Combined with the he500's insensitivity it was a mismatch. The lcd2 just sounded mushy and uncontrolled. Hybrids and transformer coupled amps were fine though, in fact the Sundaras sound great from the Vali 2. As you said-subjective I guess. Oh wait, maybe I was fooled by marketing and bias, which must be why my Gungnir MB sounds so much better than the Modi, its all in my head. I am a psychosomatic audiophile. Who knew?

Yes, our minds can play games with us. However, I never liked Schiit products, and still, somewhat dislike their marketing. Valh2 was the first Schiit product I've got because it was the most affordable OTL and I wanted to try that configuration with my gear. Anyway, at Low Gain output impedance is 3.5 Ohms, so it should not have an issue driving 70 Ohm LCD-2F, but hey, to each their own.