[Derrick Swart]

When someone reports hearing something (whether it be prickliness, plankton, sound stage, weight, forward, recessed, whatever) that is by definition their opinion. Audio is subjective. The signal is not, it's electrical, but hearing and perception of audio is acoustic, and is subjective and dependent on ambient listening conditions and on the listener. Are there some phenomena that are generally perceived by most users and can be called "generic characteristics"? Yes, such as loudness. But even those are not 100% universal. What I hear will be different from what you hear will be different from what Joe and Jane Blow hear, and what each of us perceives is our "truth." I don't like the sound of Onkyo products. Others do. Simple. That is how human perception works. Arguing anything different demonstrates lack of understanding.

Nicely said

 

[R3DFIV3]

Except not really, when all taxes are considered…like the 7th highest property tax rate in the country…

Yeah... it's the education or special purpose districts that tend to add up and possibly even start getting a little ridiculous (dependent on location).

I mean... I get it. We need the services provided by all of these "districts", but sometimes just city and county taxes are way up there just on their own...

 

[Mr Rick]

Anyone heard anything about Vali 3 lately?

You will know it's close when the Vali 2 appears in "Last Call ".

 

[O8h7w]

• Gungnir 2. Hello, Singularity Converter™. Our own high-bit-depth, high-rate delta-sigma modulator, based on our own math, our own filter, combined DSP/FPGA architecture, Unison USB—is this the first DAC ever by any manufacturer using 100% their own tech, USB to output?

Whether a completed product contains 100% your own technology always depends on where you draw the limit between technology and components. And that is a slippery slope: specific function IC:s, microprocessors, transistors, resistors, base materials? It is technology all the way down! So where do you draw the line?

In the early days of trying to make audio over USB sound good someone, somewhere, invented asynchronous USB (Wavelength audio?) and from this old article it seemed like a few manufacturers brought to market DACs with USB interfaces that could very reasonably be called their own tech.

And what about other inputs? Even if the receivers for SPDIF, optical and electrical, is taken as tech and not components surely some have tried to make their own implementations? And even if the interface itself is taken as tech, what about Sony and Philips? And what about I²S?

Sooo... maybe, but only with a very very specific definition, which takes the impact away. It may be created from only commodity and general-purpose parts, which is fairly unusual for the product category... eh, there is an argument to be made that a full DAC-on-a-chip is such a part as well. Oh. Did any of the DAC chip makers ever produce a consumer product themselves? Or have some giant like Sony or Samsung or Yamaha had their own DAC chips at some point?

Dang. Trying to answer this is a real deep rabbithole. Good fun!

 

[R3DFIV3]

When someone reports hearing something (whether it be prickliness, plankton, sound stage, weight, forward, recessed, whatever) that is by definition their opinion. Audio is subjective. The signal is not, it's electrical, but hearing and perception of audio is acoustic, and is subjective and dependent on ambient listening conditions and on the listener. Are there some phenomena that are generally perceived by most users and can be called "generic characteristics"? Yes, such as loudness. But even those are not 100% universal. What I hear will be different from what you hear will be different from what Joe and Jane Blow hear, and what each of us perceives is our "truth." I don't like the sound of Onkyo products. Others do. Simple. That is how human perception works. Arguing anything different demonstrates lack of understanding.

Agreed! I have difficulty openly stating "this sounds better", but can easily and frequently state, wholeheartedly, "this sounds different", when comparing gear in similar categories.

I find this very interesting. Who I find even more interesting is this Jane Blow you speak of... I don't think I would terribly mind meeting her.

 

[O8h7w]

My better half sent me the NYT lexophile contest winners. (here's an old one).
Blackground should/must be stated in that form:
My DAC has superlative blackground but is a bit peppery in the highs (?)
My DAC's blackground is more evident in the dark (?)

Thankyou for that link, that is an awesome collection of top quality puns!

 

[Luckyleo]

The charts won't truly make sense for those who haven't heard at least 30 different DACs from atrocious all the way to the best. The only reason I'm able to triangulate how DACs roughly fall in this chart is from hearing a bunch of them and picking up their different sonic presentations. Also, the associated amp and headphone matters 100% in determining this chart.

So it's worthless to most of us?

Leo

 

[theveterans]

Yep pretty much

 

[Ripper2860]

Yeah... it's the education or special purpose districts that tend to add up and possibly even start getting a little ridiculous (dependent on location).

I mean... I get it. We need the services provided by all of these "districts", but sometimes just city and county taxes are way up there just on their own...

Texas did roll-back property taxes this year, so there will be some relief. While prices of homes have gone up (like probably everywhere else), I'm willing to bet we are still less per sq. ft than many places in the Northeast, California, Northwest, etc. Even with a higher tax % the lower housing costs relative to other big markets would likely yield a lower over-all tax burden. (I have not fact-checked this. It is my semi-informed opinion.)

 

[Ripper2860]

So it's worthless to most of us?

Leo

If its purpose was to make one unhappy with gear they were very happy with until they saw the chart, then I suspect it is Mission Accomplished!

 

[US Blues]

Geez, y'all were talkative yesterday!

As far as all the subjective audio terms, sandwich spreads from the British Empire, and the sonic characteristics of various DAC's, I'll leave you with the the wisdom of Robert Hunter (the Grateful Dead lyricist that Mike Moffat quoted in the title of his thread):

If you get confused listen to the music play!

 

[Ohno Schiitizen]

My better half sent me the NYT lexophile contest winners. (here's an old one).
Blackground should/must be stated in that form:
My DAC has superlative blackground but is a bit peppery in the highs (?)
My DAC's blackground is more evident in the dark (?)

Heresy makes the modi dac sounds because it stacks.

 

[Ripper2860]

My better half sent me the NYT lexophile contest winners. (here's an old one).
Blackground should/must be stated in that form:
My DAC has superlative blackground but is a bit peppery in the highs (?)
My DAC's blackground is more evident in the dark (?)

My DAC's resolution is to lose weight this year.

 

[Ohno Schiitizen]

My DAC's resolution is to lose weight this year.

My DAC is just a converter, but never convert lbs to kgs or C to F.

 

[adydula]

If its purpose was to make one unhappy with gear they were very happy with until they saw the chart, then I suspect it is Mission Accomplished!

Wow, what an astute observation!
This is the "Lemming Syndrome!"...for sure.

Human beings are funny creatures at time....

Alex