[adias]

On the streaming thing, I agree with the consensus here, I don't trust streaming. It's renting, and I'd rather pay to own.

Yes, but streaming is also listening to radio. Particularly good for background music. I listen to a variety of radio streams, many of high quality, not only technical but program-wise.

 

[NoBodyNoWhere]

On the streaming thing, I agree with the consensus here, I don't trust streaming. It's renting, and I'd rather pay to own. I usually buy CD first, rip it to NAS and listen digital for a while. If it's a great album, or an okay album that gets it's hooks in me, then I invest in a copy on vinyl. This has been my model for 20-ish years now since I bought my first turntable in 2002-ish (I'm young enough to have been raised on cassettes then CD's, then vinyl last, not first).

But this led to an interesting counter point to the "owning my music" train of thought. Theft. My last move when I left active duty navy and moved from Seattle to Houston in 2019, I let movers take most of my stuff, but the high value stuff I put in a u-haul trailer and towed it behind my truck. I have learned my lesson with movers and sticky fingers. But then in Oklahoma City, I took my family to get dinner at a nice burger joint and after dinner walked back out to my truck to find the back door of the uhaul had been pulled off at the hinges. They got my TV (insurance paid for a nicer upgrade for the same purchase price) and some other misc electronics that were easily replaceable. But they also got a few boxes that were loaded into the trailer last, to include cleaning out over a third of my vinyl collection. They also got a box full of all my 6922 type tubes for my MJ2 and Vali2. I was devastated. Insurance wouldn't pay any more for the records than 20 bucks per. They said they weren't insured as "antiquities" so 20 bucks was max. I lost out on some really nice jazz to include a prized Ella Fitzgerald and Louis Armstrong Porgie and Bess original issue, as well as some indie rock bands that only did one run of their record and couldn't even be found on ebay/discogs.

So now I realize, we really don't own anything, we are just stewards. But as a steward, at least I can make an insurance claim if someone takes it from me, but if amazon decides to de-list it for whatever reason, I'm left with no recourse.

The tubes I was SOL. I had some really nice RCA's, Tesla's, Westinghouse, various JAN stuff, all gone. But it made it an easier decision to move to 6SN7 gear at least since I don't have a carefully curated collection of 6922's going to waste. So now I have a reason to hunt for more and more 6SN7s to build up that collection, which is part of the hobby, I guess.

I agree!

Maybe this is more a subject for my therapist than this forum, but I am less interested in listening to music that is streamed from the internet than from the lossless files I’ve ripped from CDs I own. If I like the tracks, I don’t want the streaming service to stop providing it because their license expired or they’ve replaced it with a “better” remastered version.

 

[Ableza]

As a former college professor who taught Copyright law in the business school of San Jose State University, I must remind this august group that when you purchase music or video on any pre-recorded media including digital downloads, you never really "own" the content. What you've purchased is the limited use rights to the content and if the media is physical, the piece of plastic containing the material. The owner of the copyright can, in theory anyway, revoke those use rights at any time.

It's just that they are far, far, far less likely to take that sort of action with a CD or LP or whatever you've purchased than they are with a streaming service or radio station. And with streaming services they are much more likely to force them to offer lower-quality versions if they are not happy with the royalty payments they are receiving, regardless of what you think you have "paid for."

OK, ass-like professor attitude put back in the box where it belongs.

 

[Mumbles06]

Yes, but streaming is also listening to radio. Particularly good for background music. I listen to a variety of radio streams, many of high quality, not only technical but program-wise.

Yeah, that's true. I do stream iheartradio to listen to talk radio all the time. And also, I pay for siriusXM in my truck, which I use for discovery in lieu of a spotify or tidal type. Without question, I'd discover music faster and probably a lot more of it if I plugged into the spotify algorithms, but I worry that the ease of use would lead to be getting lazy and not purchasing the album, and to me, the opportunity to chase a record down and visit various record stores searching for a white whale is a fun part of the hobby. But I understand that others may hate that. I travel for work, a lot, and the opportunity to find new record stores in Incheon or Hong Kong or Seoul and find CDs I can't find at home is a rush, and a good past time.

There is clear value in music streaming services, without question. I personally just prefer a more analog method of acquiring tunes.

 

[feverfive]

Longshot question: Will Cog meet those criteria?

I currently use my Macbook pro for streaming purposes (no streaming services; music library stored on external SSD directly connected to my MBP; USB out from my MBP directly to my BF 2/64). I use an app called Colibri Lossless Music Player (on macOS App Store; a whopping $10USD). It has exclusive mode; does auto sample rate switching; bypasses macOS Core Audio; etc.

If you want a player that also acts as a music manager (think of it like macOS Music app), then ,maybe look at Audirvana. Colibri is a player only; add files to a playlist via Finder. It works for me, but there are times I look hard at Audirvana (for me, the "Origin" version as again I do not do streaming services).

 

[adias]

I currently use my Macbook pro for streaming purposes (no streaming services; music library stored on external SSD directly connected to my MBP; USB out from my MBP directly to my BF 2/64). I use an app called Colibri Lossless Music Player (on macOS App Store; a whopping $10USD). It has exclusive mode; does auto sample rate switching; bypasses macOS Core Audio; etc.

If you want a player that also acts as a music manager (think of it like macOS Music app), then ,maybe look at Audirvana. Colibri is a player only; add files to a playlist via Finder. It works for me, but there are times I look hard at Audirvana (for me, the "Origin" version as again I do not do streaming services).

Colibri actually costs US$20 (that's OK). Question: Does it play out browser based radio stations?

 

[Pandahead]

When the word leaked that there would be a Schiit CD Unison thingy yet unnamed there was an up tick in my CD purchases. It will certainly spank the hard drive. Woohoo, CD Unison to Yggy Unison!! And physical media is nice. Not just for the consumer but they say better for the artist.

Back then my hard drive through Roon had an edge over Qobuz through Roon but not a deal breaker. Especially with the Roon integration.

But then the years went by and streamers kept getting better and are to the point where if my hard drive died I would not be in a panic to switch to the backup. Now I'm ambivalent on the Urd. It's now pretty much apples to apples!

So why can't Apple pay artist more and set the gold standard as Spotify crumbles? Go up to 5¢ per stream. And based on popularity pay what a hot selling CD used to pay with all the middle men? They can figure that out.

Then we'd have Apples to Apples! Would iPhone users be willing to pay a little more for the artist if Apple shareholders say they can't afford more than a penny per stream? Just a thought.

 

[feverfive]

Colibri actually costs US$20 (that's OK). Question: Does it play out browser based radio stations?

Huh, price increase since I purchased (not all that long ago)... Nope, no radio stations. Must add music to a currently playing playlist (either drag & drop via Finder or file add via the app). It is a limited app, bu thus the low price.

 

[golfbravobravo]

I've looked into a bunch of streamers earlier this year. For reasons I won't go into beyond what I already wrote in the occasional post in this tread (tl;dr: the cheapest hardware you could think of, little to no shielding, questionable privacy policies, horrendously bad software that you're forced to use), most of them I wouldn't let anywhere near my home, much less any of my audio chains.

The best "value for money" streamer you can get is the cheapest Mac mini. That gets you the highest quality hardware and the highest flexibility in terms of software, it can be used head-less, draws very little power, doesn't look bad, and the thing is dead quiet when used as a streamer. The only caveat is that you need to run something like Roon on it, meaning some playback software that bypasses macOS' own audio pipeline so that your tracks get sent out the USB port without any forced resampling.

An iPad is OK, but you don't get the same flexibility in software and you'd have to keep it plugged in for a long time, which will eventually destroy the battery. (It'll bloat up on you after about a year and, if ignored for too long, could rupture.) But it does stream bit-perfect, so it's got that going fot it.

Forget about Android tablets and phones, most of them can't stream your tracks without resampling, period. Not for love or money.

A home-brewed Pi would be an acceptable alternative, if (and that's a big if!) you know how to set it up exactly the way you need instead of having to rely on software packages that some third party cobbled together for you.

I'm looking at an endpoint solution to (probably) replace my Pi/HifIBerry XLR HAT (which is misbehaving)). A mac mini is an attractive option, but what chain are you all using to get music from the Mac USB-C and into your amp? I'll be using Roon.

Thoughts welcome!

 

[AndreYew]

The homebrew Pi path definitely needs careful treading to find a reliable setup. For me, I never liked Volumio because it was flakey and had odd UX behavior, but Picore has been really solid for me. The only time I had to reboot it voluntarily (ie. not counting power outages) was recently when a very short power outage must have left the hardware in a weird state: its uptime before that was well over a year. Anyway, I use it as an endpoint for my Logitech Music Server setup (running on a Mac, but ultimately it's going to move to a NAS), so it's not applicable for everyone, but I think the Picore distro has support for many streaming services? I don't use any streaming services, so I don't know. Picore is easy to setup, and made specifically for music, so it's a small, minimal distro.

My setup is a RaspPi 2 (yes, 2) with a Pi2AES hat feeding an Yggy A2, and it sounds fantastic. I use the iPeng app to control it from an iPad, but the Logitech server also has its own web page that you can use to control everything. The server also supports JSON inputs to activate its actions, and I have Siri shortcuts to make it stream from my local classical and NPR stations with simple voice commands. All forms of control for it are quick and responsive.

Most of my music are ripped CDs and files I've bought from places like HDtracks.

 

[Mike Foley]

I tend to use streaming as any easy way of listening to music, and as a tool for discovering new music. I’ll buy the CD/LP, or download from Bandcamp, but once I have the CD I still tend to stream. The artist gets some money from the initial purchase, and if I then subsequently listen via Tidal or Qobuz, the artist gets a bit more.
My physical collection is spread around the house, so sometimes it’s just easier to find something on streaming, than it is to hunt for the CD!
I see streaming as something to use as an additional tool, rather than replacing CD/vinyl.

 

[NewSchiithead]

I've looked into a bunch of streamers earlier this year. For reasons I won't go into beyond what I already wrote in the occasional post in this tread (tl;dr: the cheapest hardware you could think of, little to no shielding, questionable privacy policies, horrendously bad software that you're forced to use), most of them I wouldn't let anywhere near my home, much less any of my audio chains.

The best "value for money" streamer you can get is the cheapest Mac mini. That gets you the highest quality hardware and the highest flexibility in terms of software, it can be used head-less, draws very little power, doesn't look bad, and the thing is dead quiet when used as a streamer. The only caveat is that you need to run something like Roon on it, meaning some playback software that bypasses macOS' own audio pipeline so that your tracks get sent out the USB port without any forced resampling.

An iPad is OK, but you don't get the same flexibility in software and you'd have to keep it plugged in for a long time, which will eventually destroy the battery. (It'll bloat up on you after about a year and, if ignored for too long, could rupture.) But it does stream bit-perfect, so it's got that going fot it.

Forget about Android tablets and phones, most of them can't stream your tracks without resampling, period. Not for love or money.

A home-brewed Pi would be an acceptable alternative, if (and that's a big if!) you know how to set it up exactly the way you need instead of having to rely on software packages that some third party cobbled together for you.

The Mac mini does look interesting but ideally I would like a way to run without an attached monitor, mouse, and keyboard. When you are running "headless" how are you controlling it?

 

[riffrafff]

As a former college professor who taught Copyright law in the business school of San Jose State University, I must remind this august group that when you purchase music or video on any pre-recorded media including digital downloads, you never really "own" the content. What you've purchased is the limited use rights to the content and if the media is physical, the piece of plastic containing the material. The owner of the copyright can, in theory anyway, revoke those use rights at any time.

It's just that they are far, far, far less likely to take that sort of action with a CD or LP or whatever you've purchased than they are with a streaming service or radio station. And with streaming services they are much more likely to force them to offer lower-quality versions if they are not happy with the royalty payments they are receiving, regardless of what you think you have "paid for."

OK, ass-like professor attitude put back in the box where it belongs.

Meh.
μολὼν λαβέ

 

[Daniel Johnston]

The Mac mini does look interesting but ideally I would like a way to run without an attached monitor, mouse, and keyboard. When you are running "headless" how are you controlling it?

VNC and autologin. Easy to set up using online tutorials. Took me 15 minutes.

 

[NoBodyNoWhere]

The Mac mini does look interesting but ideally I would like a way to run without an attached monitor, mouse, and keyboard. When you are running "headless" how are you controlling it?

In my case, if I’m at my work desk, I use screen sharing to see the streaming computer’s desktop on my workstation. For other situations, I’ll use the Audrivana remote app on an iPad to control the player.