Schiit Happened: The Story of the World's Most Improbable Start-Up
Oct 3, 2022 at 10:07 PM Post #100,591 of 150,600
Most certainly, good Sir.

The following recipe should give you an adequately whelming chance to replicate my results, maybe:
- one Bifrost 2 with two pinches of Analog Devices flavoring, in silver for added panache
- stir in one whole 2/64 firmware, under adequate care and precaution as not to brick that brick
- one Jotunheim 2, making sure it's the good stuff, not that black powder coated nonsense. Who wants to listen to a void?!?!
- combine the two with a matched pair of XLR cables of your choosing. Avoid Amazon Basics if possible, as we want to maintain a modicum of class. (The use of single-ended cables is of course an option, but will require you to surrender your pretentious-AF audiophile card to the authorities.)
- add to that any two cans of transducer magic that you have at hand. Revealing planars are recommended but not required, as no discernible difference in Bifrost's output could be detected in this here test kitchen, regardless of the applied choice of headdress.
- bake until sufficiently hot, not bothered

A list of recommended wines can be found attached.

Enjoy!



I chose Jotunheim as the main amp for this test because it's the most neutral-adjacent headphone amp that I own. The goal was to leave most of the heavy lifting in the flavoring department up to Bifrost. (I am waiting for the Drop + THX AAA789 to become available again for these kinds of tests, but alas, Drop just can't seem to be bothered.)
I'm sure you could also use a Magni 3+ or Heresy, but I haven't.
Yet.
What I also tried last night after my post, however, was Jotunheim R with a pair of ribbons (duh!).
The Jot R-and-ribbon-combo is so brutally unfiltered and revealing that if anything could give me a chance to hear a difference, they should.
They didn't.

I have yet to try this in my living room two-channel chain, though. That setup truly HATES the Bifrost 2; most of the stage and image I otherwise enjoy with it just collapses to the size of a small beach ball and all of that system's usual airiness and clarity gets suffocated under something that's better described as a weighted blanket than a veil. Who knows, maybe that might turn out to be my best chance to hear if NOS makes ANY difference whatsoever after all.

Just for added clarity, and because this post doesn't meet my usual word count yet: What I was testing for isn't what any one of these components sounds like, nor their sum. I'm only curious about whatever the difference in sound might be between MCB mode and NOS mode, with everything else kept unchanged. Entirely relative from one mode to another, not in the absolute terms of each mode in isolation. That's why I don't think the exact chain should matter much, as long as it is kept somewhat neutral overall.

At this point, I would actually already be content knowing for certain whether there actually IS a difference at all, beyond any placebo effects and wishful thinking, regardless of what these differences may be. Because — to me — it sounds precisely the same. And as I said before: That doesn't make any sense to me. Mike has proven over and over again that he is much too smart to waste years of his life on a filter that doesn't actually do anything.
Loud and clear, and still chuckling. I do have the original B2 and a Jotunheim 2, both in silver (of course) - the only black piece of schiit I have is the IE Magni, which is superb, but there i had no choice (but i do own silver crayons and aluminium foil, whichever might suit my fancy).
I’ll give this a go with the DCA Ether CX and let you know.
 
Oct 3, 2022 at 10:08 PM Post #100,592 of 150,600
I would like to selflessly volunteer to be a tester for said big new world-altering Schiit, too. I vow to rip it apart if I don't like it. Easy for me to do, being the old curmudgeon that I have become and all. 🤣
Using many, many words…
 
Oct 3, 2022 at 10:11 PM Post #100,593 of 150,600
Hey all,

Just a quick follow-up to my cryptic note on the future being, well, pushed a bit farther into the future. First, I can't talk about the Thing That Has Slidden, but it's one of the big-big ideas I've been hinting at. A bunch of people have been using this Thing for quite a while (in various incarnations, over 18 months now), and everyone really really likes it.

Now, before you can say, "Of course your suck-up toadies are gonna like anything you do, tell me another one, hey," let me explain how you know someone really likes something: they don't want to give it back. They also, unsolicited, tell you how pleasantly surprised they were with it. And they do it again and again. So either we really have something here, or there's a lot of delusional people at Schiit.

(I guess either is equally likely.)

And yes, it's just one Alps part that's holding us back. A critical one, though. So there's no getting around it. It's sit-and-wait time.

But that's OK. We've had a bunch of new stuff this year. And there's still several things to come, both on the big and small fronts. More on that later. In the meantime, maybe you can get a sneak preview of at least some of it, if you join us for the Schiitrmeet next week. I don't know what the blind listening theme is, but I'll let you know when I know. I think we're setting up for Thursday the 13th from 6-10 PM. I'll let you know more when I know.

Now, back to a whole lot of new new stuff I'm working on. Too busy. But it's all my fault. And that's the way I like it.

All the best,
Jason
@Jason Stoddard if the Thing has USB connectors, hopefully these will be USB-C and not the antiquated and less robust mini-B type?
 
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Oct 3, 2022 at 10:20 PM Post #100,594 of 150,600
Hey all,

Just a quick follow-up to my cryptic note on the future being, well, pushed a bit farther into the future. First, I can't talk about the Thing That Has Slidden, but it's one of the big-big ideas I've been hinting at. A bunch of people have been using this Thing for quite a while (in various incarnations, over 18 months now), and everyone really really likes it.

Now, before you can say, "Of course your suck-up toadies are gonna like anything you do, tell me another one, hey," let me explain how you know someone really likes something: they don't want to give it back. They also, unsolicited, tell you how pleasantly surprised they were with it. And they do it again and again. So either we really have something here, or there's a lot of delusional people at Schiit.

(I guess either is equally likely.)

And yes, it's just one Alps part that's holding us back. A critical one, though. So there's no getting around it. It's sit-and-wait time.

But that's OK. We've had a bunch of new stuff this year. And there's still several things to come, both on the big and small fronts. More on that later. In the meantime, maybe you can get a sneak preview of at least some of it, if you join us for the Schiitrmeet next week. I don't know what the blind listening theme is, but I'll let you know when I know. I think we're setting up for Thursday the 13th from 6-10 PM. I'll let you know more when I know.

Now, back to a whole lot of new new stuff I'm working on. Too busy. But it's all my fault. And that's the way I like it.

All the best,
Jason
"Toadies"?! "...suck up Toadies", you say?!! Doth this hint at something...dare I ask...Toadish? Probably not and no reply is needed as I am well aware that my becroak vs bespoke tastes let alone the sixth sense are not normally catered to by Schiit and more's the pity. But my family and friends are. For example, my son is enjoying my Valhalla and the Magnius/Modius setup immensly. And I? I matter not one whit, but to me, they do. The Holy Days approach and I am often want to present my loved ones with presents and for my brothers, audio fits the bill. The word "gift" in German is "poison", ergo I avoid it as often as is toadishly possible.

I look forward to your next reveal with great eagerness...

ORT
 
Oct 3, 2022 at 10:24 PM Post #100,595 of 150,600
Well, in all fairness, if you roll the original Sennheiser HD650s into the mix, that model has been around for a really long time - since the early 2000's? They were Sen's top of the range for a long time (read: most expensive), and were the audiophile headphone model pretty much all others were compared against (my beloved Wharfdale Isodynamics had too many compromises and too little distribution to ever be in the running). When they came out they were pretty much the most expensive headphones normal people might encounter at around $400-500, and well out of my budget at the time. In production for 20 years, of course Gen-Zs think they are old.

They were an aspirational goal for me, so I jumped on the Massdrop HD6XXs when they came out in 2017, especially because the economy was such that the US$200 was closer to par with the CAD$. They are still my daily drivers (although the ear pads are getting pretty manky after all this time).



COVID has really messed with my sense of time passing too...
.
Did the 650s originally have paper cones?
 
Oct 3, 2022 at 10:48 PM Post #100,596 of 150,600
Hey all,

Just a quick follow-up to my cryptic note on the future being, well, pushed a bit farther into the future. First, I can't talk about the Thing That Has Slidden, but it's one of the big-big ideas I've been hinting at. A bunch of people have been using this Thing for quite a while (in various incarnations, over 18 months now), and everyone really really likes it.

Now, before you can say, "Of course your suck-up toadies are gonna like anything you do, tell me another one, hey," let me explain how you know someone really likes something: they don't want to give it back. They also, unsolicited, tell you how pleasantly surprised they were with it. And they do it again and again. So either we really have something here, or there's a lot of delusional people at Schiit.

(I guess either is equally likely.)

And yes, it's just one Alps part that's holding us back. A critical one, though. So there's no getting around it. It's sit-and-wait time.

But that's OK. We've had a bunch of new stuff this year. And there's still several things to come, both on the big and small fronts. More on that later. In the meantime, maybe you can get a sneak preview of at least some of it, if you join us for the Schiitrmeet next week. I don't know what the blind listening theme is, but I'll let you know when I know. I think we're setting up for Thursday the 13th from 6-10 PM. I'll let you know more when I know.

Now, back to a whole lot of new new stuff I'm working on. Too busy. But it's all my fault. And that's the way I like it.

All the best,
Jason
Nice use of really old english there! I took Chaucer in the original middle english at uni, and don’t know if Slidden was around even for him. Made me think there for a minute. 😂
 
Oct 3, 2022 at 11:10 PM Post #100,598 of 150,600
That would be nice if this was the case, with this particular unit. I'd say just about every piece of class-a or even class A/B solid state gear I've owned last 45 years had some early "settling in" period even if it was for only 1hr in the first hour. A notable difference with amps until they reach full bias, sure but an ss dac, we'll see more feedback on this, I hope. Perhaps it was dead cold and now specs change once fully warm. Making Schiit up now, hahah, LOL. No. Actually heard it. No joke.

In this case, the change was very notable even in the first 45 minutes. There was a midrange strange glare and sibilance at first. Was odd, made me think at first, oh man, "hope i don't need to return this piece of Schiit". Nope, not the case now - its good now. fwiw, I've been designing and building speakers for 4+ decades, I mod my own amps, caps, etc and do some early prototype demos for a few cable manufacturers. I've learned to listen very closely [over several decades now] and taking notes on early power-on and settling is a sidebar geek-out ocd thing I do. Sharing with you, there was a change in sound, for whatever reason. Or, the dac may be faulty and somehow mended itself. Who knows. In any case, sounds better now. 5+ others on this site alone agree it settles in week1, and @automojo felt he heard changes up through week2 with constant power-on too. We know each other from the speaker world, on other sites. I'll go with his rec on this plus 5+ others, and why would sound change if left powered on "all of the time" as even @Schiit even recommends for this dac to "leave it on". Why, if nothing changes.. hmmm. :)

Thanks for your input though. We'll see what the majority says in time once this new BF 2/64 is out there a while longer, and all experience is good. Thx.
Glad to hear it's settling in. Give it a month or so-and give us a good review of this new Bifrost. I think have trained ourselves to be good-well Really good listeners.
I find myself sometimes at a loss to accurately describe the changes here-too long winded (usually a correction at a later date) -but that doesn't change the fact of the presence.
I have been hesitant, as I have posted here-to swap out the OG card for this new version.
I really like the BF2OG-the detail and textures.
So another review would be welcome.
I just had to drag out my old Project DAC BOX FL, and give it another spin.
Older simpler version with the linear power supply.
A full day of warm up (yep it needs to be left on as well@ Project recommends), optical from my Polk XM tuner.
It's one of those DACS-for the price-it can be a rewarding listen-for the price especially.
Very organic and analog sounding.
Not a syrupy as I remember-but the Infinity RSiiia's and Final Chapter Mojo 3'S, and their clear and clean mids high, and sealed bass box lows-seem to be a (now) a darn near perfect match!!
It doesn't have the same space beyond the sides of the speakers, like the BF2.
But-even on XM-it can make you feel like the performer is standing a foot or 2 in front of you.
NOS-filterless and directly coupled to the dac chips.
If you don't let it properly warm up-the sound is very one dimensional.
Same goes for the BF2
Maybe this is more apparent with speakers in a listening room.....
I'm leaving it on top of the BF@ for now as a cool option.
 
Oct 4, 2022 at 12:35 AM Post #100,599 of 150,600
My hopes are that There May soon be the outcome of Schiit’s proprietary 1-bit implementation, involving the super mega combo burrito filter.

Not Multibit, but I am intrigued. I do have the Mimby and love it dearly (preferred it to a Gumby, actually). If a 1-bit product appeared at $400, it would be an insta-buy for me - even at today’s UKP/USD exchange rate.
I don't know what 1-bit magic they are building, but 1-bit designs that perform well are not simple, as this slide deck teaches, see slide 5 for the most basic 1-bit design from the 1990s, slide 28 for a block diagram of a better performing design. Indeed, the by far the most expensive DACs I own, built into Linn Klimax gear, use such a PWM-AFIR design, with a lot of the cost going into getting signal delays just right. Don't ask for detailed explanation, I'm only learning about this now and my DSP knowledge is very rusty.
 
Oct 4, 2022 at 12:53 AM Post #100,600 of 150,600
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2...-quitting-spotify-to-save-their-love-of-music

I have to admit, I never found new music that I like on streaming.
:rolling_eyes: That Grauniad is a great example of their supercilious silliness that keeps me from ever sending them any money. They go find some willpower-depleted subjects who blame streaming for their lack of self-control, and then make that into a pretentious zeitgeist piece. Some of the best albums I've heard recently I found via streaming:

Ghosts, Michael Wollny
In These Times, Makaya McCraven
View With a Room, Julian Lage
New Seasons, Gidon Kremer/Kremerata Baltica (thanks to our resident philosopher)
The Song Is You, Enrico Rava/Michael Hersch
Americana, JD Allen
Valse Sinistre, Billy Drummond
Saudade, Plínio Fernandes
Mississippi Son, Charlie Musselwhite
The Spirit of Ntu, Nduduzo Makhathini
Afrikan Culture, Shabaka
 
Oct 4, 2022 at 5:51 AM Post #100,601 of 150,600
I still have my Modi Multibit in a box, sitting unused since I bought my Bifrost 2.

Honestly I had some issues with it.

It had an intermittent fault where it would suddenly have MASSIVE l distortion, but only on the left channel which would persist until a power cycle (with ~30s rest time). The sound was reminiscent of when Psy-Trance artists like Infected Mushroom rapidly on-off gate their sound for a kind of buzz effect, (but of course not in time with the music) with a kind of echo-y effect along with it. It was also accompanies by a terrible high pitch whine.

It would happen every few days. I sent it back under warranty, and they did some rework on it with a cryptic code on my paperwork which I could never decode. It said "V17-V20 replaced" whatever that means.

This didn't solve the issue though.

Works fine as long as I don't mind power cycling it every few days, but it was a little annoying.

I meant to follow up with a second RMA, but then I got distracted by needing to move on short notice and forgot about it during the pandemic. Once I remembered it my warranty was expired :/

I don't blame the Schiit guys. I know how tricky intermittent issues can be to diagnose.

I don't really need the thing anymore, but I wouldn't feel right selling it knowing it has an issue, so I just keep it around as a backup DAC.
Mine does the same thing, but only when using USB input. It happens very infrequently when using coax input
 
Oct 4, 2022 at 5:55 AM Post #100,602 of 150,600
:rolling_eyes: That Grauniad is a great example of their supercilious silliness that keeps me from ever sending them any money. They go find some willpower-depleted subjects who blame streaming for their lack of self-control, and then make that into a pretentious zeitgeist piece. Some of the best albums I've heard recently I found via streaming:

Ghosts, Michael Wollny
In These Times, Makaya McCraven
View With a Room, Julian Lage
New Seasons, Gidon Kremer/Kremerata Baltica (thanks to our resident philosopher)
The Song Is You, Enrico Rava/Michael Hersch
Americana, JD Allen
Valse Sinistre, Billy Drummond
Saudade, Plínio Fernandes
Mississippi Son, Charlie Musselwhite
The Spirit of Ntu, Nduduzo Makhathini
Afrikan Culture, Shabaka
Most of the new albums that I find are through internet radio stations or from personal recommendations. I will take your list and explore.

Perhaps I am just lazy when I stream and do not pay attention well.

Thank you for the suggestions
 
Oct 4, 2022 at 6:14 AM Post #100,603 of 150,600
Fair.

That's why I'm a solid state guy. I've been clean for 6 years now, ever since I got rid of my Lyr 2.

I did have some fun sticking some Soviet space race era tubes in it before throwing in the towel though.

It was just too much. I retreated back from the brink, and wanted fewer options (which is unusual for me as I am usually a tinkerer) :p
:laughing:
 
Oct 4, 2022 at 8:41 AM Post #100,605 of 150,600
I more and more often really am one, not gonna lie.

Ironically, it most often happens whenever someone is complaining, moaning, or whining about some first world problem, or about something that happened to them but could have been avoided with a bare minimum of upfront thinking or even the slightest sense of personal accountability. That stuff just drives me up the wall, and it gets "worse" the older I get. Heck, I turned 41 two days ago; 20 years old me thinks I'm an ancient fossil at this point anyway. So why not embrace the fact that I'm turning into an old fart, shouting at clouds. 😎
There are plenty of us here who can tell you........
 

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