Schiit Happened: The Story of the World's Most Improbable Start-Up
May 25, 2021 at 5:20 PM Post #77,341 of 152,795
Just my opinion and I have both JOT1 and JOT2. Both have very solid bass, the presence region (midrange) is very strong, forward, by comparison with Valhalla 2 (depending on tubes use) and I have one of those too. The highs are crisp. I listen mostly to symphonic music and a relaxed midrange is more to my liking and produces a better sound stage with more depth to it, to my ears, with symphonic music.

Balanced versus SE? I've been running amps with both since 2016. Balanced outputs typically deliver twice the power of SE inputs and will sound louder at comparable settings of the volume control and louder always sounds better (one of those audio axioms - people invariably think it sounds better if its louder - just like they will choose a TV screen with boosted colors because they pop!). Unless the volumes are exactly matched (by at least a sound level meter) folks usually pick louder as better. Matching the levels precisely is the acid test. The only thing I come away with using balanced is perhaps slightly better separation which can effect imaging and sound staging in a positive way. Some think balanced makes for better bass as well, I thought so when I started using balanced gear, not so sure about that now. If you are running long cables between your amp and source / DAC, balanced is desirable for the extra power. I think noise rejection improves with balanced but only becomes important for long runs like one typically finds in professional applications, like making recordings. Over a 1 or 2 meter cable it probably makes no difference unless you live in an RFI rich environment as I did years ago, then the local naval air base closed and the almost subliminal background hash I would get from time to time depending on winds and landing patterns went away. I do like balanced for the fat, substantial barrels on the connectors, never had one come loose, but there are RCA connectors that are just as good at staying put but may cost a little more. In the end no matter which way you go, the end sound can only be as good as the recorded quality of the source material, balanced can't fix a problem with that.

Thanks to Yggdrasil's multiple SE and one balanced output, all of which are live all the time, I've run amps I have like the JOT's with both SE and balanced inputs connected to switch back and forth after allowing for balancing the volume levels. I'm not an electrical engineer, nor do I play one on TV, so this is just from my experience as an audiophile.
 
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May 25, 2021 at 5:51 PM Post #77,342 of 152,795
So I was recently reading Jason's Blog posts on the development of Bifrost 2...and there's a passage in that post where Mike Moffat calls the balanced outputs on Bifrost 2 "cheap ass balanced"... I've always wondered what's "cheap-ass" about the balanced output on Bifrost 2? I just bought a McIntosh MHA200 (which isn't a fully balanced design, but has XLR inputs and outputs).

Any input appreciated - Jason - care to comment?
I’m not Jason but… Mike calls it “cheap-ass balanced” as the balanced signal is created in the analog output stage. Meanwhile Gungnir Multibit and Yggdrasil are inherently balanced, using 4x DAC chips (2x for each channel).

Moral of the story, pay more and you get more hardware. But BF2 having a balanced output is still a great convince feature since some Amps are designed balanced and sound best using a balanced signal.
 
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May 25, 2021 at 6:19 PM Post #77,343 of 152,795
I think they meant Vancouver, BC Canada, eh! (and yes many of us born and bred here say "eh".
...and we all consider Kamloops chicken-town. Don't even get me started about Campbell River (spent a year in that smelly-sweaty-sock-den-of-inequity [ah, pulp mills]). :8ball:
 
May 25, 2021 at 6:20 PM Post #77,344 of 152,795
May 25, 2021 at 6:24 PM Post #77,345 of 152,795
I think George might be the original :)
As in George Vancouver?
my-man-george.jpg
 
May 25, 2021 at 6:36 PM Post #77,347 of 152,795
I guess I am kinda asking about the sum of all three and how the music sounds from a balanced setup. I do not as yet have any balanced stuff including headphones. Thank you for the help. Your thoughts, along with others here, are very much appreciated! Looking at the Jotenheim it says it can have a DAC card in it, albeit at a price increase but that is the way of doing business and I do not mind that at all. I am trying to see if it can have a digital coaz and toslink on the card as I would NEVER have use for a USB digital input. At least none that I can think of right now.

ORT

Edit: It looks like the DAC card is USB only (I could be wrong). For me that would be something I must pass on as I sue Digital Coax and Toslink only now. So it is back to a Modius and maybe a Magnius.
Personally I think a quality dac is most important...... Single Ended is fine. Get a great audiophile recording (can be from any era, and not limited or even including Hi Rez or MQA, or anything). Just a good recording. Have a decent headphone amp, and decent headphones, and you will enjoy yourself. Personally, for desktop listening, Balanced is sorely overrated. Just my opinion.
 
May 25, 2021 at 7:09 PM Post #77,348 of 152,795
Gotcha. At this point I do not believe he's mentioned wanting another amp, but given the fact he's ordered a Modius DAC and it has balanced out, it does leave the door open for a future balanced amp purchase. ORT has always been enamored with VH2 and tubes a-glowing, so it'll be interesting to see him make the move to the dark-side (SS) to get balanced DAC in and HP out. Magnius seems to be one heck of a deal and a good way to give balanced a whirl -- at least between DAC and Amp and DAC/Amp/HP if his HPs support a balanced connection. Jot 2 would be even better!!

Side note: I'll be trying my HFM Arya on my Ragnarok v1 via balanced very soon (waiting on a balanced cable). Tried balanced with HD6XX and I could really tell much of a diff, but with power hungry Planars I suspect the difference between Balanced and SE will be notable.

Side note 2: Yeah. A MJ2 in B stock would be the best of both -- tubes and balanced. I suspect that'll be like winning the lottery, however!! :D
Hmmmm..... Tubes and single-ended, or SS and balanced. Let me think about that for a nanosecond. Nah, won't take that long. :sweat_smile:

Tubes *and* balanced? That may be worth a whirl...
 
May 25, 2021 at 8:12 PM Post #77,351 of 152,795
Don't forget Herbert.
 
May 25, 2021 at 8:12 PM Post #77,352 of 152,795
Well as near as I can tell, I will get the Modius as it has the necessary digital inputs I need and the otherwise excellent (and cool looking Jotenheiim) only has USB (I think). I am uncertain if I could hear a difference by waiting another year or so saving up for the Bifrost 2. I like that it is powered by more than a USB input. I like it that the new Bifrost is 2.5 times heavier than the Modius. I am one of those that sometimes equates a bit of heft in equipment to "quality".

I checked and my Emotiva XDA-2 has balanced inputs along with SE. There are also 2 Toslink, 2 coax and one each of USB and AES/EBU. And I have only used the optical and coax in the years I have owned it.

So I shall continue to save up and ultimately get the Modius to match with my Valhalla 2 and send my S.M.S.L. M100 to a relative. I guess I could see about headphones with balanced cabling as there is that pair of balanced outputs on the back of the XDA-2 but I don't know if they can be used for that. The biggest disappointment on the Emotiva is the dinky headphone jack up front. I prefer the 1/4" version, but it works so I really have nothing to complain about.

ORT
 
May 25, 2021 at 8:57 PM Post #77,354 of 152,795
I bet Adam West prefers tubes!

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