Schiit Happened: The Story of the World's Most Improbable Start-Up
Nov 15, 2019 at 2:51 PM Post #53,491 of 153,204
So, is there a software update and how do get it for Modi Multibit? Seems like it's possible considering it's a USB device :)

Depending on the age of the Modi Multibit, there is an 8-pin DIP with different DSP code on it. If yours has a sticker on it, it's the new firmware. If it doesn't, you can contact amy@schiit.com and she can sell you the new one if you're interested.
 
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Nov 15, 2019 at 3:24 PM Post #53,492 of 153,204
Right, but the DAC isn't the source.
Starting with a good source means: don't use crappy iTunes or Spotify, but use a good CD transport or a good (CD quality or better) streaming source and use SPDIF not USB (may change with Unison USB™) as interconnect.
And don't use totally compression ruined songs like Problems by Ariana Grande as a reference. :ksc75smile:


The Dynamic Range Database is an excellent resource for seeing how compressed some recordings are.
 
Nov 15, 2019 at 3:33 PM Post #53,493 of 153,204
why did people pick the Delta Sigma DACs over the Multibit ones?

I wasn't there, but in my experience D/S often wins when doing shorter duration listening comparisons. Just a generalization, but D/S can often be more lively and "Technicolor", where multibit can take longer to grow on you and appreciate the subtleties.
 
Nov 15, 2019 at 3:41 PM Post #53,494 of 153,204
I wasn't there, but in my experience D/S often wins when doing shorter duration listening comparisons. Just a generalization, but D/S can often be more lively and "Technicolor", where multibit can take longer to grow on you and appreciate the subtleties.

Yep, I'm not surprised at the result. We could run the same test next month and it could go 100% the other way with a different group, different music, or different speakers. You have to be very, very careful at extrapolating from 5 people listening to 2 songs on 1 unfamiliar system. It's easy to say it's a "win" if it fits your dogma, or a "flawed test" if it doesn't.

The reality is:

1. None of our blind listening is scientifically rigorous enough to pass muster for a journal. Not even the double-blind tube test.
2. The differences between electronics are relatively small. As we've always said, start with your transducer, then go for electronics--transducers will make the biggest differences.

Hey, you know any other manufacturer running blind listening tests and reporting results counter to their dogma? We're willing to learn, so we're gonna keep doing these blind tests...and reporting the results, no matter how the cards land. I personally think it's a great ego check!
 
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Nov 15, 2019 at 3:46 PM Post #53,495 of 153,204
Nov 15, 2019 at 4:14 PM Post #53,496 of 153,204
I wasn't there, but in my experience D/S often wins when doing shorter duration listening comparisons. Just a generalization, but D/S can often be more lively and "Technicolor", where multibit can take longer to grow on you and appreciate the subtleties.

agreed. that was my experience with the Modi 3 v. Modi Multibit ... at first I was like "wow the Modi 3 is great" but longer I listened to the Modi Multibit, the more I like it.
 
Nov 15, 2019 at 4:17 PM Post #53,497 of 153,204
Depending on the age of the Modi Multibit, there is an 8-pin DIP with different DSP code on it. If yours has a sticker on it, it's the new firmware. If it doesn't, you can contact amy@schiit.com and she can sell you the new one if you're interested.

I just checked-- there's a sticker on the Modi Multibit, so I'm good. Thanks!
 
Nov 15, 2019 at 4:22 PM Post #53,498 of 153,204
Jason, why did people pick the Delta Sigma DACs over the Multibit ones? Were they more enganging, lively?

If participants had to rank, which DS DAC did they prefer more?

The differences were more subtle than I think anyone expected, and it varied by song. To my ear, the vocals on a Beatles song were very slightly more "present" and natural on the DAC I chose, but I was unable to hear any difference at all on the Zeppelin song afterwards. I was in the very slight majority that voted for the Modi 3 over the Modi MultBit.

I heard even less of a difference between the two Gungnirs. Switching from A to B on the Freya was instantaneous, and I couldn't perceive any difference I could articulate even when watching the input light change. I did get the sense after a little listening that I found B less fatiguing than A, so that was my choice, which turned out to be the MultiBit and I was in the minority on that one.

The volume matching between the devices was very consistent, but song to song was a little different. I got the impression that the quieter songs got more input from the room than the louder songs, but I have no evidence to support that.
 
Nov 15, 2019 at 4:36 PM Post #53,500 of 153,204
Assuming you had it out there, what were people saying about that Jot R + Sr1a Combo?

Yep, we did, and I think the general impression was positive. I listened for a while myself, because the final production qualifier is being shared between us a bit. Sorry, no more detailed impressions. The main thing is that people seem to like it and the production qualifiers have all been reliable...so we're moving ahead to production.
 
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Nov 15, 2019 at 4:39 PM Post #53,501 of 153,204
Hey all,

Here's a quick summary of the November Blind Listening Event.

We actually had very good turnout for the event, enough so that I bowed out of the listening room. So these aren't my impressions, but rather the impressions of the group, as related (mainly) by Marv and Mike for the cartridge test, and Mike for the DAC test.

For cartridge listening, the turntable was completely obscured, so the only person who knew what the cartridges were was Tony, who was swapping the arms. No attempt was made to level match, except by ear, because the cartridges had different output levels. So this is technically only single blind, but anyone who knows Tony knows that he doesn't really have a horse in the race. He's pretty stoic when it comes to these kind of comparisons (and likes to joke, "and they were all Modi 3!" at the end of multiple DAC listening sessions.)

We had 5 cartridges to compare, from three different manufacturers. This is more than the three from one manufacturer I thought we'd be doing. Each was setup to manufacturer specs on an individual tonearm so we could easily swap them. All tonearms were the new "longer headshell" version that will be shipping with Sol when we're out of beta. Cartridges ranged from about $100 to $350, and they were all current production and new.

Not surprisingly, the most expensive cartridge won. But, surprisingly, there were no super terrible options. I know people get into fisticuffs about different cartridges, but depending on the system, probably any of them could be excellent.

Here's how it came out:

#1: Grado Reference Platinum2
#2: Grado Prestige Red2
#3: Depended on who you asked, either Ortofon Red or Nagaoka MP110

So, don't be surprised if the Grado Reference Platinum2 ends up as an option on Sol, and the Nagaoka doesn't (they are impossible to get, we literally went to Japan, they pointed us at their distribution, and their US distributor won't talk to us.) I'm happy if we end up pairing a US cartridge with a US turntable!

For DAC listening, this time we brought an Avermetrics analyzer for level matching. We level matched at the preamp output, using a passive attenuator on the "hot" DAC of each pair (a Sys for the Modi Multibit and an old passive based on a Noble black potentiometer I made a billion years ago for the Gungnir 4399. Yes, the Multibit Modi was slightly hotter than the Modi 3, and the delta-digma Gungnir was slighter hotter than the Gungnir Multibit. Both of the hot DACs needed only mild trimming--in the range of 0.2-0.4dB--to bring them within 0.02dB at the preamp outputs.

Aside: yeah, I know, there's a pot in the signal path of one DAC and not another, but one's in a delta-sigma DAC, and one's in a Multibit DAC, so let's call it fair. Plus it's just a pot, and plus, it's just a tiny, tiny tweak in terms of output level.

From there, we did an A/B of Modi Multibit vs Modi 3 (like last time) and another A/B of Gungnir Multibit vs Gungnir 4399, switching with a Freya S. (We couldn't do A/B/C/D due to different output levels of the balanced DACs vs the single-ended DACs--trimming 6dB out would be pretty extreme.)

Aaaannnnd...delta-sigma won both rounds!

Yeah, I know. Quite a surprise. Also good news for anyone looking for inexpensive DAC performance. But does this invalidate our True Multibit approach? I'd say not so fast. Modi 3 is much newer than Modi Multibit, and we do learn things that we apply to new products. However, Gungnir 4399 is an almost forgotten product, based on a D/A converter you can't even buy anymore. A lot of people liked the AK4399. Maybe that's part of it. Or maybe we're looking at system synergy.

In any case, I think you can expect us to keep making both True Multibit and delta-sigma DACs, and trying to advance each approach. (And I'd really like a rematch with, say, Bifrost 2 in the mix, because that has all our latest stuff in it...maybe we'll set that up in the future.)

And we'll definitely keep doing more of this blind listening, because it's really, really illuminating!

All the best,
Jason

Wow, very interesting results, especially with the DAC's!

Bifrost MB vs Biforst 2 would be a good comparison to have, I'd also like to see Modi MB vs. the MB DAC card...
 
Nov 15, 2019 at 4:40 PM Post #53,502 of 153,204
Yep, we did, and I think the general impression was positive. I listened for a while myself, because the final production qualifier is being shared between us a bit. Sorry, no more detailed impressions. The main thing is that people seem to like it and the production qualifiers have all been reliable...so we're moving ahead to production.

HOORAY!!!
 
Nov 15, 2019 at 4:46 PM Post #53,503 of 153,204
agreed. that was my experience with the Modi 3 v. Modi Multibit ... at first I was like "wow the Modi 3 is great" but longer I listened to the Modi Multibit, the more I like it.
for me, I've done quite a bit of comparing the modi 3 and multibit using a sys to switch them (so no level matching), but I cannot distinguish them with someone else pushing the button on the sys and asking me which one is which (this was with Magni 3 and some GS2000e headphones). Not sure if mine has a sticker. Where would the sticker be on the multibit to tell me if it has the latest firmware?
 
Nov 15, 2019 at 4:54 PM Post #53,504 of 153,204
for me, I've done quite a bit of comparing the modi 3 and multibit using a sys to switch them (so no level matching), but I cannot distinguish them with someone else pushing the button on the sys and asking me which one is which (this was with Magni 3 and some GS2000e headphones). Not sure if mine has a sticker. Where would the sticker be on the multibit to tell me if it has the latest firmware?

Yeah, I don't really care to open mine to find out, but I'm definitely curious now. I imagine it's the latest since I bought it within the last couple of months, however I did get it off Amazon because I had points to burn so there's no telling how old it is...
 
Nov 15, 2019 at 4:55 PM Post #53,505 of 153,204
for me, I've done quite a bit of comparing the modi 3 and multibit using a sys to switch them (so no level matching), but I cannot distinguish them with someone else pushing the button on the sys and asking me which one is which (this was with Magni 3 and some GS2000e headphones). Not sure if mine has a sticker. Where would the sticker be on the multibit to tell me if it has the latest firmware?

Mine is on the back panel. I only notice if I've been listening to the Multibit for awhile then switch to something else.
 

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