[riffrafff]

Moral of the story is don't run low watt class a amps with 85db sensitive speakers.

I didn't know 85dB speakers were still around. Even my old 1982 Realistic Mach One (garage) speakers are (rated at) 90dB @ 1m/1W.

 

[dieslemat]

I found this link that may help the folks here, especially the newbies like me, https://geoffthegreygeek.com/calculator-amp-speaker-spl/
​

 

[yonson]

I for one thing Aegir will be perfect for my setup.

My towers are rated at 88dB 1w/1m, so with 10 watts at my listening position of 4 meters (~13 feet) they would put out ~ 89dB at listening position, I normally listen at around 85dB...

@Jason Stoddard I do have one question that I have heard conflicting results on.

If Aegir is rated at 10 watts Class A in 8 ohm stereo, what would it be in 4 ohm stereo? I've heard both 5 and 20...

 

[tjc303]

Yep, it's gonna happen someday, and then you get to call it quad amp!

I'm just realizing you can do this for 3k + shipping.

A Pass XA30.8 is $6800

Same guy that was yesterday complaining about the right to repair.

 

[the finisher]

LS50 cannot even actually play 100db without distorting terribly

Hum, beg to differ, mine will play at least that loud, cleanly. I'll measure tomorrow, but this is not true in a nearfield setup with no doubt.

Here is KEFs spec - Maximum Output 106 dB, Nominal Impedance 8 Ω (min. 3.2 Ω) 85 db 1w @ 1m

My experience is if you want to get the most from them you need a lot power, they are not an easy load.

 

[the finisher]

Same guy that was yesterday complaining about the right to repair.

Same guy that was yesterday complaining about OT.

 

[D2Girls]

Hum, beg to differ, mine will play at least that loud, cleanly. I'll measure tomorrow, but this is not true in a nearfield setup with no doubt.

Here is KEFs spec - Maximum Output 106 dB, Nominal Impedance 8 Ω (min. 3.2 Ω) 85 db 1w @ 1m

My experience is if you want to get the most from them you need a lot power, they are not an easy load.

What amp are you using with the kefs? I drove mine with an anthem 225 as well for the majority of the time I owned them. The pass labs was a step up in detail retrieval and refineness but I still haven't owned another AB that slammed bass like the anthem did. I'm curious to what song you used, what amp, that you were able to play above 100db spl without it sounding horrible.

 

[earnmyturns]

I didn't know 85dB speakers were still around. Even my old 1982 Realistic Mach One (garage) speakers are (rated at) 90dB @ 1m/1W.

They are around for a reason. My KEF Reference 1s:

FREQUENCY RANGE Typical in room bass response: 30Hz (-6dB)
Free Field - Short port: 40Hz - 45kHz (-6dB)
Free Field - Long port: 37Hz - 45kHz (-6dB)
FREQUENCY RESPONSE 45Hz- 35kHz (±3dB)
CROSSOVER FREQUENCIES 350Hz, 2.8kHz
MAXIMUM OUTPUT 111 dB (peak sound pressure level at 1m with pink noise)
AMPLIFIER CLASS 50-200W
SENSITIVITY 85dB (2.83V/1m)
HARMONIC DISTORTION 2nd & 3rd harmonics (90dB, 1m)
<0.5% 40Hz - 100kHz
<0.2% 200Hz - 10kHz
IMPEDANCE 8 Ohms (min.3.2 Ohms)

They sound absolutely wonderful with Yggy 2>Hegel H360 (250 w/pc into 8 Ohms, 420 w/pc into 4 Ohms).

 

[the finisher]

What amp are you using with the kefs? I drove mine with an anthem 225 as well for the majority of the time I owned them. The pass labs was a step up in detail retrieval and refineness but I still haven't owned another AB that slammed bass like the anthem did. I'm curious to what song you used, what amp, that you were able to play above 100db spl without it sounding horrible.

Yes, I picked a i225 Dealer demo recently, it sat in a box from 2014 till I got it with reported low hours. Cosmetically 10 out 10, and it's the newer version.
The LS50 loves this amp, the bass slam is unreal for a speaker this small. I also use dual 12" subs but even with them off it's very good.
And it has balanced inputs for Yggy. It's a great addition, eventually it will be replaced by a pair of Vidar, after new Aegirs and a better preamp.

As far as SPL goes, ya these are more a finesse type speaker, I have others that will play much louder.
Keep in mind they are in a small studio, on a large desk, and 1 meter from my ears, can't measure now, I'd be killed

I bought the Anthem because they obviously needed more power than the 110 wpc of a RR2160, they can also benefit from having the sub bass crossed out to a pair of subs, this keeps the distortion at bay at higher spls.

I'll measure tomorrow, strait up no subs and post results, my ears say more than 100 db, we shall see.

I won't go easy, I'll use deadmau5

 

[Rensek]

Every 3dB increase in volume or decrease in efficiency requires double the power. So for example:
Zu Audio Omen DW is 97 dB/w/m efficient. This is exactly the kind of speaker Aegir is designed for.

From a power standpoint to achieve the same level of control we look at the following:
85 - 88 db = 20W
88- 91 db = 40w
91 - 94 db = 80W
97 - 97 db = 160W

Based on the efficiencies of the speakers alone the ATC is 16 times less efficient (or more power hungry) than the Omens. I wouldn't expect this setup to meet your needs although I'm not you.

I also have a pair of Sonus Faber Venere 1.5 speakers (85 efficiency), they don't sound good until using a 100W Tube Amp or 250W Solid State Amp. I am in a big room mind you. I have tried them with a 30W Naim Unitiqute and maybe they would work in a very small room, but 10W just isn't a lot when working with such inefficient speakers.

By all means if you have the disposable cash and if losing some money on the deal wouldn't hurt you then go for it, Numbers aren't anything, but that being said if a friend asked for my advice, I would say go Vidar for the ATC.

Good luck in what you choose. Maybe Jason comes on here and gives me the smack down because I've got it all wrong, but thats ok too.

From the reading I have done the past few days, I do believe your starting math is a bit off here. If it takes 1w @ 1 meter to acheive 85db 2 watts gets you to 88db - 4 watts gets you 91 - 8 watts gets you 94 - 16 watts gets you 97, etc.

I just learned about max spl before degradation, in regards to speakers. So that's a cool new one for me. Thanks friends. I always wondered how to tell that. I'm guessing many speaker manufacturers don't list it.

Now can someone tell me how many dbs we lose for every meter we step back?
Edit: Found here https://geoffthegreygeek.com/calculator-amp-speaker-spl/

And how is db per watt affected if your speakers are setup in less then ideal position (against a wall)

 

[D2Girls]

They are around for a reason. My KEF Reference 1s:

FREQUENCY RANGE Typical in room bass response: 30Hz (-6dB)
Free Field - Short port: 40Hz - 45kHz (-6dB)
Free Field - Long port: 37Hz - 45kHz (-6dB)
FREQUENCY RESPONSE 45Hz- 35kHz (±3dB)
CROSSOVER FREQUENCIES 350Hz, 2.8kHz
MAXIMUM OUTPUT 111 dB (peak sound pressure level at 1m with pink noise)
AMPLIFIER CLASS 50-200W
SENSITIVITY 85dB (2.83V/1m)
HARMONIC DISTORTION 2nd & 3rd harmonics (90dB, 1m)
<0.5% 40Hz - 100kHz
<0.2% 200Hz - 10kHz
IMPEDANCE 8 Ohms (min.3.2 Ohms)

They sound absolutely wonderful with Yggy 2>Hegel H360 (250 w/pc into 8 Ohms, 420 w/pc into 4 Ohms).

My JBL:

SPEAKER TYPE 2-way Floorstanding Loudspeaker
LOW-FREQUENCY TRANSDUCER 15" (380mm) 2216Nd-1 Differential Drive® woofer
MID/HIGH FREQUENCY TRANSDUCER 3" (75mm) D2430K dual compression
MAXIMUM RECOMMENDED AMPLIFIER POWER 300 watts RMS
FREQUENCY RESPONSE (-6DB) 30 Hz – 40 kHz
SENSITIVITY (2.83V@1M) 94dB
NOMINAL IMPEDANCE 6 Ohm
CROSSOVER FREQUENCIES 700 Hz
ENCLOSURE TYPE Bass-reflex via Dual Front-firing Ports
DIMENSIONS (H X W X D) 37-1/16" x 22-1/16" x 16-3/4" (941mm x 560mm x 425mm)
WEIGHT 135 lb (61.2kg)

Oh would you look at that, they have the same fr. I wonder which has the better bass?

 

[the finisher]

I like 15" woofers Compression horns I'm working on.
They are an acquired taste I'm getting to like more, the KG 4s need new crossovers and Ti diaphragms.

I have an old pair of JBL SVA2100s, they will play very loud, and are quite sensitive at 94 db 1w@1m
They have a similar FR of 25kz to 40hz and have 2 10' woofers,
They use a 1.5" soft dome horn, also need new crossover caps.

 

[the finisher]

So I have an audio related question and a Schiit one at that. Yes it's probably a noob question (as all of mine seem to be).

I have a question about signal amplification and gain through dacs, and the need for headphone amplifers.

I brought my mimby home over the weekend to power my 2ch garage rig. I went into work today and forgot my mimby at home. I have a Chromecast audio at work, and didn't bring the dongle for my pixel with. While at work I wondered how loud the 1/8 jack on the CCA would get my HD6XX's. Too loud for comfort is the answer. I liked the sound quality better from CCA > magni > HD6xx but that was because of better bass through the magni. So then I had a thought. What if I plug my HD6xx into the output of my mimby, and use the CCA optical into mimby? Answer - It actually sounds pretty awesome, and has lots of headroom. 50 % volume and it was plenty loud. The CCA has digital volume control so I am able to control the volume with my phone.

I tested the mimby as a headphone amp using usb as well, and while the sq was good. I didn't have anywhere near the loudness level using USB compared to optical. Can anyone explain this? Volume level of mimby as a hp amp via USB was comparable to what my phone or iPad can do. Using mimby and CCA made it get almost as loud as magni 3 at full volume.

Why is CCA optical/spdif so much louder then USB? Both are digital signals right?

Is CCA with optical overdriving mimby? Is the full dynamic range setting on my CCA to blame? Could I be pushing it's output past 2volts RMS? How would I tell, and would that damage mimby? I see output ohms on mimby is 75 vs .3 on magni 3. Does that really matter, for headphone usage?

Is there any harm that could be done to my headphones by using them with the mimby or CCA in this manner.

Is the output stage of the CCA or mimby that different then a dragonfly or the original fulla?

I hear often that the less components in the signal path the better. I also hear it said that the best amp is no amp, and ideally speakers are driven by a wire with gain. Is that sort of what is happening here? Are my ears not good enough for my gear?

Has anyone ever driven headphones with Saga or Freya using their active stage? Is this why so many preamps or dacs contain HP jacks?

Help a confused noob please.

This post kinda got blew by and it peaked my interest.

I do believe this deserves a test, I am getting one of these, they are cheap so for this test perfect.
https://www.amazon.com/Nobsound-Fully-Balanced-Single-Ended-Pre-Amplifier-Controller/dp/B01MXC9HHW

I'm going to run balanced output of Yggy though this and to my Focal monitors, they have a setting for a lower gain input scenario such as this.
I'll lose the subs this way, but for $56 I have to try it. It should be pure Yggy if the volume control doesn't sound like ass.

I can always send it back, the results should help with your question, and thanks for asking it.

Edit: So here's the high end version of this concept. https://www.tortugaaudio.com/product-category/passive-preamps/

The top model would give me the versatility to put the subs back with a passive preamp setup.
However for this money I'd rather have the HeadAmp GS-X Mk2 to replace my Jot.

 

[Zojokkeli]

Have you tried powering up whilst attached to a network connection? The system should do an install over the network. Be sure to checkout all the install options.

If that fails, PM me and I'll send you a thumbdrive with a MacOS installer. It will be a few days, we are on the West coast for a family emergency.

Cheers

Did not know about that, thanks! I'll give it a shot the next time I see her.

No need to send a thumb drive overseas. Appreciate the thought though, such an awesome community we have here.

 

[Brubacca]

From the reading I have done the past few days, I do believe your starting math is a bit off here. If it takes 1w @ 1 meter to acheive 85db 2 watts gets you to 88db - 4 watts gets you 91 - 8 watts gets you 94 - 16 watts gets you 97, etc.

I just learned about max spl before degradation, in regards to speakers. So that's a cool new one for me. Thanks friends. I always wondered how to tell that. I'm guessing many speaker manufacturers don't list it.

Now can someone tell me how many dbs we lose for every meter we step back?
Edit: Found here https://geoffthegreygeek.com/calculator-amp-speaker-spl/

And how is db per watt affected if your speakers are setup in less then ideal position (against a wall)

Sorry. You are correct from an absolute sense.
I was trying to say relative to the highly efficient Zu Omens. Obviously I didn't make my point very well!