[StanD]

   
He said hybrids, not electric cars.... 

I'm reasonable, how about upgraded rubber feet?

 

[madwolfa]

  Mea culpa.  Still, the same argument applies.  Grab an electric motor's shaft at 0 RPM and hold on when someone starts it.  You'll get a visceral lesson about torque.
(I shouldn't attempt to multitask when I write comments.)

 
Absolutely. Electric cars rock... and make total sense, even without emotional component. Hybrids? Not so much. Maybe as an interim solution...

 

[FrivolsListener]

   
Absolutely. Electric cars rock... and make total sense, even without emotional component. Hybrids? Not so much. Maybe as an interim solution...

 
I dunno, I would buy a Stirling engine powered series hybrid in a heartbeat.   Just think of a series hybrid as a diesel locomotive-like topology with a battery bank.
 
(And yes, I'd pay, gladly, for the weight and cost of all that copper.)

 

[dglow]

  And there was grumbling about how I’d oversold the revolutionary nature of Jotunheim.
 
...
 
Note that doesn’t mean “ignore it.” It means pay attention, take notes, and learn.
 
One of the things we learned is, while the press totally got the revolutionary aspect of Jotunheim (its upgradability), they’d been primed. They got an introduction to the product, courtesy me. So, the next SchiitShow, everyone gets the same intro.
 

 
Regarding the notion that you oversold the Jotunheim... I think rather it was matter of failing to meet expectations, especially given the hints and rumors – largely circulated here – feeding into anticipation for the 'next big' Schiit product.
 
If one reads the tea leaves and is anticipating the introduction of 'project Manhattan' (a weighty name indeed), then the unveiling of Jotunheim inevitably leads to expectation recalibration and/or disappointment.
 
Further, some cognitive dissonance arises when the term 'revolutionary' is applied to a product which, compared to other recent introductions in the Schiit line (e.g. the Yggdrasil and its multibit cousins), simply doesn't exhibit the same extent of differentiating factors.
 
My honest $.02, for what it's worth – this is intended as constructive feedback.

 

[FrivolsListener]

   
Regarding the notion that you oversold the Jotunheim... I think rather it was matter of failing to meet expectations, especially given the hints and rumors – largely circulated here – feeding into expectations of the 'next big' Schiit product.
 
If one read the tea leaves and was anticipating the introduction of 'project Manhattan' (a weighty name indeed), then the unveiling of Jotunheim inevitably lead to expectation recalibration and/or disappointment.
 
Further, some cognitive dissonance arose when the term 'revolutionary' was applied to a product which, compared to other recent introductions in the Schiit line (e.g. the Yggdrasil and its multibit cousins), simply didn't exhibit the same extent of differentiating factors.
 
My honest $.02, for what it's worth – this is intended as constructive feedback.

 
I agree with this.  It wasn't revolutionary for Schiit, it was evolutionary.  Everything from Asgard up can be upgraded at this point, right?  You seem to be working with, for each model, a base power supply board and daughterboard implementations of the building blocks, that can be swapped out in an upgrade process.
 
That doesn't make it any less cool or interesting.  It just is the sort of thing we've seen out of you guys before.

 

[Jason Stoddard]

To be clear, constructive feedback is encouraged. I hear you on the rubber feet, which are currently being designed out of everything, and being replaced with push-in feet. And everything (well, except one product) will get 4 feet.
 
I also hear you on the LEDs, the problem is (as I have explained before), I can do very little about it. LEDs are super-bright these days. They also exhibit an annoying problem that, if run below a certain current, some of them simply don't light up. Sorry, I can't have staff pulling 10% of LEDs out of every product on the line so we can run them a bit dimmer. Perhaps we can have some neutral density plastic LEDs made--we're getting big enough--which I will look into.
 
And, I hear you on Jotunheim. Though I do think Pivot Point is going to be a game-changer. At least in our line. As will modularity, when applied beyond DACs. 

 

[Vigrith]

  Aside: for the record, I think Jotunheim is our most character-free amplifier. I mean this not as an insult, but as perhaps the highest compliment. I happen to like the slightly warmer, richer presentation of the Mjolnir 2, but I don’t think it’s necessarily more accurate than Jotunheim.

---

 

And that brings us up to present day, where Jotunheim is selling strongly…and causing me to wonder about how it affects our other products.
 
Maybe I’ll ask you a few questions about that next…

 
Firstly, great chapter and a very interesting read, Jason.
 
I'd like to point out I'm part of your "younger audience" (or at least less experienced) demographic, I was born and grew up in a small and relatively underdeveloped town in Portugal, my family was modest and though my parents owned a few vinyl records we didn't have any working devices to play them. There was radio sporadically and we did have a couple CDs I played in my Sony walkman or that we heard in the car but other than that my experience with music was extremely limited. As such I'll admit I didn't even know amplifiers were a thing, let alone DACs, until I was like 16 years old which is when I got my first computer. At that point I started having easy access to all sorts of music (through less than legal means, of course) but I still wasn't aware of how expansive the world of bringing "professional" audio to one's home was - I even owned a pair of HD558s without being aware of the fact I could get better sound out of them through external gear, I didn't have the money for it, out of sight out of mind I suppose. 
 
I only came to be "in the know" once I started making my own money and bought a pair of HD650s like 5 years ago once home audio and headphones began to get more mainstream attention in Portugal (our options are still so narrow but it has definitely improved).
 
That said, regarding Jotunheim's capabilities and character (or rather, lack thereof) - ever since I've been able to pay for my own Schiit I'd been looking for a musical, non-fatiguing and rich/warm sound. I exchanged a few PMs on here with Mike about the Valhalla 2 and tubes in general a while back which helped me a lot, after researching the matter thoroughly I ended up buying your Mjolnir 2 because not only would I have the slightly coloured sound I (in my mind) wanted, I could also go LISST if it turned out I didn't like tubes after all; the MJ2 was my first nigh 1k purchase, and has been my only one to date (though I own a few devices that cost about as much I never paid full retail for them) which should be enough to speak for how much I enjoy it.
 
I put in an order for the Jotunheim with your friends at Sonority (they're very helpful and professional, by the way, as is Mark) recently and am eagerly awaiting its arrival so that I can use it for an office setup. I'd been wanting to try a "characterless" amplifier as you put but kept postponing because I wanted a competent one with balanced outs so that I could use my balanced headphones (made for the MJ2) and with my budget I could not find one - with its small ish footprint and incredible versatility buying it was a nobrainer for the asking price. Though it may not be as much my cup of tea as your tube offerings I wanted to find out and now I can because you make affordable products that don't rape the average Joe's bank account.
 
I'm glad Schiit Jotunheim has been appealing to as many people, just the fact it is a new topology is praise-worthy and you are right to be as excited for it as you were/are in my eyes.

 

[Jason Stoddard]

   
I agree with this.  It wasn't revolutionary for Schiit, it was evolutionary.  Everything from Asgard up can be upgraded at this point, right?  You seem to be working with, for each model, a base power supply board and daughterboard implementations of the building blocks, that can be swapped out in an upgrade process.
 
That doesn't make it any less cool or interesting.  It just is the sort of thing we've seen out of you guys before.

Nope. Our amps have NEVER been modular or upgradable. Nor has there been an (affordable) modular amp/DAC amp/whatever. That's why it's revolutionary. I'm sticking to that.

 

[dglow]

  And, I hear you on Jotunheim. Though I do think Pivot Point is going to be a game-changer. At least in our line. As will modularity, when applied beyond DACs. 

 
If Pivot Point is truly a revolutionary aspect of the Joti, it should to be sold as such. Explain it to us more throughly; describe what it is, how it differs from past approaches, and the advantages it brings to the amplifier space. Do for Pivot Point what you did for multibit and burrito filters. As it currently stands, Pivot Point reads as clever naming and a bit of hand-waving.
 
The Joti message hit modularity/upgradability as the revolutionary aspect, not Pivot Point. 
 

Nope. Our amps have NEVER been modular or upgradable. Nor has there been an (affordable) modular amp/DAC amp/whatever. That's why it's revolutionary. I'm sticking to that.

 
Frames of reference here. Revolutionary within the Schiit lineup? Yes, clearly. But compare with your multibit DACs which are, ostensibly, revolutionary within the industry. Same word, big difference.

 

[jacal01]

Yeah, wags, shills and barkers are my go-to resources...
 
Funny you should list Rakuten, since I sort of thought of them as an inside source, considering that you have to use an offshore shipper like Tenso. 
 
Quote:

Corollary 5: on the other hand, micro-social almost always works, unless you’re a dick. ,

 
Hmmm.....  Sorta begs the question, doesn't it?    But in actuality, I'm still bearing marks from some of your withering responses early on.  But then I riddled you out and stopped taking it personal.  Now I sit on the sidelines cheering you on.
 
Go figure.
 
And, congrats with your innovative customer based marketing and game changing product positioning.  Really.  Some well deserved smugness is in order.

 

[FrivolsListener]

 
Nope. Our amps have NEVER been modular or upgradable. Nor has there been an (affordable) modular amp/DAC amp/whatever. That's why it's revolutionary. I'm sticking to that.

 
I stand corrected (again).

 

[Jason Stoddard]

   
If Pivot Point is truly a revolutionary aspect of the Joti, it should to be sold as such. Explain it to us more throughly; describe what it is, how it differs from past approaches, and the advantages it brings to the amplifier space. Do for Pivot Point what you did for multibit and burrito filters. As it currently stands, Pivot Point reads as clever naming and a bit of hand-waving.
 
The Joti message hit modularity/upgradability as the revolutionary aspect, not Pivot Point. 
 
 
Frames of reference here. Revolutionary within the Schiit lineup? Yes, clearly. But compare with your multibit DACs which are, ostensibly, revolutionary within the industry. Same word, big difference.

Re Pivot Point:
 
It's difficult to go beyond what I covered in the Jotunheim FAQ about Pivot Point without getting into circuit diagrams, implications of various amplifier topologies, and even philosophical discussions about engineering approaches. If you'd like to lose your mind, spend some time on the VFA vs CFA threads on DiyAudio, where they cover the pros and cons, both real and imagined, of the two topologies from the single-ended perspective. So, without getting very technical (and maybe giving away some secret sauce), I can only hand-wave.
 
(I did add a paragraph to the Jotunheim description that mentions it, though--previously, there was no mention in the main product description.)
 
Re Revolutionary: 
 
I'd still argue it's revolutionary in the industry--an affordable, modular platform that eliminates the obsolescence of today's de-facto standard of multifunction boxes, from a company that has proven that it truly supports modularity in other products? I may be crazy, but from our conversations with press, a lot of companies are very aware of how revolutionary--and disruptive--this is. 

 

[acguitar84]

For what it's worth, I like the bright white LED.

 

[FrivolsListener]

  Now I sit on the sidelines cheering you on.
 
Go figure.

 
Yeah, there's some of that, too.  I mean, when Fulla came out, and people were criticizing the scratchy pot, my thinking was, "For Pete's sake, *you* try to find a *stereo* pot that sits flush to the board and allows for a center screw to hold the knob on!  Then try to second-source it."  I own two: they fill a niche, they do the job, and the price was right.  I'm not getting rid of my Gumby any time soon, though!  Different place, different purpose.

 

[RickB]

  For what it's worth, I like the bright white LED.

I've never "liked" it, but it's never bothered me, either.