[Odin412]

  Like TheShow. When I found out we were in a glorified tent hidden well outside the hotel, rather than in a ballroom, there you go. Not what I expected. As always.

 
I was also disappointed in the Headphonium tent venue. It almost looked like an afterthought. I actually didn't find the Headphonium at first, and I was actively looking for it. The venue at previous TheShows was much better and easier to get to, and that may explain why you had fewer casual visitors this year. Having said that I really enjoyed my time at the various Headphonium stands on Saturday and Sunday, so big thanks to all the exhibitors!
 
I also really like that you brought all your products to the show. I got a kick out of starting at the Modi 2/Magni 2 before going to the Bifrost/Asgard 2 and all the way up to the Yggdrasil/Ragnarok combo. Having all your products there gave me a chance to compare among the various price ranges (Vali vs. Lyr 2, for example).
 

Originally Posted by Jason Stoddard /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Do an ad for the show guide (did you see ours?)

 
Yes, I did notice your ad. Very clever! And, from conversations with a few folks at the show, dead on.
 

Originally Posted by Jason Stoddard /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Which means we should have gone to TheShow with Ragnarok and Yggdrasil and speakers. Nothing more

 
I would have loved to see the Ragnarok/Yggdrasil demoed in one of the rooms in the tower, preferably with reasonably priced speakers from other companies that sell directly to end users. I second the praise for the ELAC speakers. Another good company to partner with would be Zu Audio.
 

Originally Posted by Jason Stoddard /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Or maybe better, a show segregated by budget? This would definitely help prevent heart failure when people start asking about prices.

 
This is a great idea! At TheShow you had audioengine and McIntosh on the same floor. I think that both companies offer great products, but they sure operate at different price points. You could have floors for systems that are <$1,000, <$5,000 and so on, although you'd need more zeroes for most of the rooms at TheShow. Example:
 
Me: This is my favorite room at the show.
Salesperson: All of the equipment here is for sale - and on sale!
Me: But it's still expensive!
Salesperson: 'Expensive' is a relative term.
 
(For context, the speakers were $30K and the poweramp alone around $50K, I think. Sounded good, though.)

 

[JEspina456]

You live and learn. Selling audio must be very difficult. There's niche upon niche in our crazy hobby/passion.

Just happy I discovered this company called Schiit. I have the Bifrost, Lyr, Asgard 2 and Sys. Soon to acquire a Mani and Loki.

Thanks for some great listening.

 

[TheMadMilkman]

 
The New Show Strategy
 
In talking to other exhibitors at TheShow (hell, we had to do something, it was pretty dead), we’ve come to the following “brilliant” conclusions:
 

• Bring headphone gear to CanJams, meets, and other shows that are truly dedicated to headphones. CanJams are excellent places to be in the headphone world. And there are plenty of them to go to, all around the world. A company could have a full show schedule by attending only CanJams.
• Decide on some speakers, or partner up with some speaker guys, and start showing speaker stuff at two-channel shows. That includes shows like TheShow Newport and AXPONA and RMAF. Of course, that makes RMAF very interesting, because of the added logistics of having both a CanJam exhibit and a speaker room. Especially since I don’t think I’ll be there this year (I’m having a big birthday, and yeah, sorry, guys, I am not going to sacrifice another birthday to RMAF, though I really do love you all…well, in a non-creepy way, of course.)

 

 
PS Audio tried something at RMAF last year that almost worked.  They had their 2-channel electronics in the main room of a Junior Suite while the Sprout was being used for a separate headphone system in the suite's bedroom.
 
I say tried, though, because apparently most people didn't realize that there was a system in the 2nd bedroom, and because when I did happen to wander in, the system was being worked on.  I think they were having trouble with a turntable or something.
 
But, with proper signage and pre-show marketing, it could work for you guys.  It would be awesome to hear, say, a Yggy/Rag combo playing in the main room, then to wander into the side room and listen to the same Yggy/Rag combo through a good set of headphones.
 
The added bonus is that the headphone fans would be required to at least walk past the 2-channel rooms, and the 2-channel guys might see that personal audio can fit within their current system/ideals.

 

[judmarc]

I asked about the SYS and was told that while low-level channel linearity is kind of a bugaboo for inexpensive attenuators, the SYS ought to do better than what I've got.  (I'll be ordering one for my birthday next month - if you select one for testing that does especially well with low-level linearity, ship me that one, OK? .)

 
That was me a little while ago.  Got mine today.
 
What wasn't entirely unexpected, but nice, is that the SYS has great low-level linearity.  From the point where it's audible to me, the channels are equal volume.  Nice job.
 
What I did not expect was the sound quality.  Yes, I thought it would be an adequate, maybe more than adequate, volume control, but this is high end equipment - for fifty dollars, ridiculously good.  (And if they do this good a job on the "small stuff," folks....)
 
Second time I've purchased equipment from you, and second time you've got a very happy and satisfied customer.
 
Now time to read the latest installment.  

 

[judmarc]

Yes, I know, this kind of test will never satisfy the ABX folks, but I think it might get us a little closer to the truth about whether or not there are some people who consistently hear audible differences in systems that should sound the same. I suspect the answer is neither 100% subjective nor 100% objective, but a continuum…some people can hear the difference, some can’t, some care, some don’t…and all of that is fine. Of course, this is a big undertaking, but…hmmm…I need to think about this some more

 
I did an informal test with some folks at Computer Audiophile (not ABX, but a slightly different test designed to explore some of the assumptions behind ABX) and learned some interesting things.  I'm not an academic or a statistician, so my thoughts regarding the results are just that, my own thoughts.  A teaser I'll throw out (teaser only, because I haven't properly written this up back at CA yet) is that I think all this is considerably more varied and subtle than "I'll play two selections and you'll use your audio memory to compare them."  I think our brains evaluate and recall different audio characteristics in very different ways.

 

[MandoBear]

"We didn’t know the degree of bonage we’d be getting."
 
Such a classic Schiitism... made me grin from ear to ear, not just because it was funny, but also because it so sharply reflects a kind of situation I'll bet a lot of us have found ourselves in.  Thank you Jason.
 
Sorry I won't be around to congratulate Schiit on the day (I'll be on holiday), but congratulations on 5 years.  Keep on doing what you do.

 

[bigro]

Great, beginning next month ill be like a crack head refreshing the schiit website and headfi looking for the announcement of the Redacted. Hopefully it will have a new improved switch on the back with a super bright led built into it.
 
I agree with the range of Audio Customers. Someone who is entirely pleased with a sound bar and or an i phone probably will not be in the market for the audio upgrade just as someone who lives in the world of pimp my amp will look at the brilliant simplicity of a schiit product and walk right by it. rmoody and I get asked about audio from time to time at work but most say they hear no difference with better headphones but that's usually because they are using a bad source, the sound card on their computers are crap to begin with, or they are just convinced that sound bars are as good as it gets. I have learned sometimes its better to just shut up and let them listen. one of my buddies did not think loss less through a schiit dac would make any difference... After using loss less through a Modi and then plugging his laptop in using the sound card and mp3.s, He deleted all of his MP3's and deals only with lossless now. And is researching DACS. 

 
Schiit has brought Headphone listening to a new level for me. I never really enjoyed listening to headphones, i enjoyed the music but would throw the headphones in the closet as soon as I got home for my 2ch. Now I can enjoy cans as much as 2ch.
Using the Valhalla 2 as a preamp for powered Monitors Brought 2 Channel listening to new heights. the MM2 U combo for cans or to front end a 2channel desktop setup is just as good. I am happy that schiit is venturing out into the 2 CH. world More, It is definitely a different world.
I Like the Centrance Masterclass 2504 for desktop speakers. They are desktop size so don't expect booming bass. But the Clarity and Imaging is incredible. (I have to do some research on ELAC now though). However The Centrance are small enough to sit comfortably on a desk which is kind of bridging the can world and the 2ch world and are $249 a Pair.
 
As Far as Segregating price classes in shows, I would much rather see the big boys have to prove the worth compared to some really good small companies out there. How awesome would it be to have a Yggy and Raggy schiit all over Big Boy Brand X at a show.  
 
Congrats on the 5 Years. You have Loyal Customer and Advocate Here. 

 

[chipwelder]

Eish.. audio faculty testing... abx-ish
 
Recently had a long forum discussion leading to a discussion with my wife about mathematical and statistical analysis of humans and abx testing who is very math and stats literate wife... I am quite poor at it... for a biologist...
 
Take home message was this: the Central limitation theory holds and assumes, for the specific test, that every test subject must have the same opportunity to get the answer right or wrong. Then you will get a standard deviation based on chance alone... So if you violate this by training people to listen for certain things, or give them a job evaluating hi-fi equipment, or some have better hearing than others, you cannot use simple statistics to evaluate the results of such a test. Stats doesn't work for the extremities.
 
Example... everyone can run 100m sprint in 10 seconds... vs. a few gifted people who practise daily and are surrounded by a team of experts helping them, can run the 100m sprint in 10 seconds... vs. people can't run the 100m sprint in 10seconds... which is what the stats would indicate
 
So if you do ABX - and I suggest you keep the question a simple: which do you prefer? and use equally competent chains which would make it a preference, not a you are golden eared vs. you are cloth eared...
 
Test everyone, and then take the people who consistently preferred a certain playback chain, and test them again, with a similar test and see if their results second time round still differ from the rest of the subjects of the first experiment - I suspect you needn't exclude their results from the first experiment, but I'd have to ask my wife...  

 

[StanD]

  Eish.. audio faculty testing... abx-ish
 
Recently had a long forum discussion leading to a discussion with my wife about mathematical and statistical analysis of humans and abx testing who is very math and stats literate wife... I am quite poor at it... for a biologist...
 
Take home message was this: the Central limitation theory holds and assumes, for the specific test, that every test subject must have the same opportunity to get the answer right or wrong. Then you will get a standard deviation based on chance alone... So if you violate this by training people to listen for certain things, or give them a job evaluating hi-fi equipment, or some have better hearing than others, you cannot use simple statistics to evaluate the results of such a test. Stats doesn't work for the extremities.
 
Example... everyone can run 100m sprint in 10 seconds... vs. a few gifted people who practise daily and are surrounded by a team of experts helping them, can run the 100m sprint in 10 seconds... vs. people can't run the 100m sprint in 10seconds... which is what the stats would indicate
 
So if you do ABX - and I suggest you keep the question a simple: which do you prefer? and use equally competent chains which would make it a preference, not a you are golden eared vs. you are cloth eared...
 
Test everyone, and then take the people who consistently preferred a certain playback chain, and test them again, with a similar test and see if their results second time round still differ from the rest of the subjects of the first experiment - I suspect you needn't exclude their results from the first experiment, but I'd have to ask my wife...  

I don't think that there are certain limitations of human hearing that we can be can be trained to exceed like FR. Same as that sprinter will not outrun a tiger no matter how much he trains, he's going to be lunch.

 

[wink]

Quote:Jason Stodgy

 So, am I crazy or what?

The only good thing about being crazy is it keeps you from going insane.

 

[wink]

Quote:StanD

 Same as that sprinter will not outrun a tiger no matter how much he trains, he's going to be lunch.

If the sprinter were Rambo or Tarzan he wouldn't need to sprint. He ain't gonna be tiger food either.
 
I hear tiger tastes like chicken.......... 

 

[StanD]

  If the sprinter were Rambo or Tarzan he wouldn't need to sprint. He ain't gonna be tiger food either.
 
I hear tiger tastes like chicken.......... 

I'd bet that either actor would pee in their pants of they had to face a real tiger that wasn't smiling at them. So when do you plan on roasting that tiger? Over an Asgard 2?

 

[reddog]

I'd bet that either actor would pee in their pants of they had to face a real tiger that wasn't smiling at them. So when do you plan on roasting that tiger? Over an Asgard 2?

My uncle was doing some seed research In India, and was on a small boat when Tiger roared, in the darkness, everyone on that boat were scared. I wonder if India has a homeless problem, With Tigers and leopards running around.

 

[Harris]

Jason,
 
I think your observations on trade shows is spot on. In a couple of weeks I'll be attending some disparate shows, CEA Line Week in NY, Pepcom in NY, and ISTE in Philadelphia. 
 
Interesting mix, as it's not unusual at the CEA show to see a booth from Sony featuring their cameras, latest Walkmans, and their best Headphones, especially now that the "High-Res" consortium is up and running. So, probably more chance at mainstream press attention from that kind of show then from an audiophile show. And other headphone and earphone folks are there as well. Etymotic used to have an Audiologist making ear molds for earphones at the show, etc. And even Hi-Fi Man was there. The booth next door had fashionista bluetooth speakers and matching handbags. And the booth over had Samsung cameras. So.. go figure. 
 
But in the fine-art photo world, there are large, expensive shows such as LA Photo, Paris Photo, AIPAD, etc.. all with beautiful, fancy booths, and more. As a result, "Table Top" shows are emerging as serious alternative shows, often held at the same time, so collectors, dealers, editors, curators, are in the same city at the same time.
 
I did an interview with the President of AIPAD (Association of Independent Photo Art Dealers) and she was justifiably proud of having left the tabletop shows behind and now AIPAD had very professional blue-chip presence. But the cost to exhibit, have a booth built, etc, was sky high. 
 
So, some of the current members got together with smaller dealers and galleries to found an alternative tabletop show, where there was no entrance fee for visitors, and a tabletop was a few hundred bucks or so I'm told, so very affordable. And there was a theme, one such show was Vintage LA Photo. 
 
I like that idea because first and foremost I'm an educator, curator, and journalist, so I love the idea of making good art or audio gear accessible to the public. And headphones are one of those areas where the market is so large, the increase in quality is so immediate, that it erases boundaries, and educates the public in the process. This is often the opposite of a show aimed at fanboys and folks in-the-know. So, I think the idea of an "Under a Grand" or less shows, would be great. A road show along those lines that travels to key cities would be wonderful as well. 
 
So, I support your ideas, and would love to see such shows grow. The interesting thing about press only events like Pepcom or ShowStoppers, is that everyone has the same limitations, the show is 3 hours, only press or analysts are invited, and every booth is a table top, so a pre-selected audience, and limitations so you are in and out. The CEA show in NY is a bit different as a few exhibitors create larger and more designed and built booths, such as Sony who created an entire environment to show off their TVs and higher end sound systems, or Pioneer who had a large booth showing a wide-vareity of products, but many folks like Hi-Fi Man, Audio-Technica, etc.. had nicely set up small booths or tabletops. 
 
I travelled recently with the superb new Oppo PM-3 headphones, and HA-2 headphone amp/DAC and everywhere I went folks wanted to listen to it, and several of the folks placed orders afterwards. So, small can be beautiful. 
 
Harris
www.maceditionradio.com

 

[reddog]

Well said +1