[ArmchairPhilosopher]

so I am not sure that is a special accomplishment.

I know, you're American through and through. But not everything in life needs to be a competition.
And remember: The way you and your group sets up these tests means that you pre-screen for participants with precisely the kind of hearing and aural perception characteristics that are required to figure these sometimes minute differences. That process is by no means flawed, because it leads to exactly the outcome that you aim for: Being able to discern even the smallest differences in how a piece of gear performs. But the resulting group of people is—by that process' very design—not representative of what would be considered "normal" or "average" hearing.

 

[Paladin79]

I know, you're American through and through. But not everything in life needs to be a competition.
And remember: The way you and your group sets up these tests means that you pre-screen for participants with precisely the kind of hearing and aural perception characteristics that are required to figure these sometimes minute differences. That process is by no means flawed, because it leads to exactly the outcome that you aim for: Being able to discern even the smallest differences in how a piece of gear performs. But the resulting group of people is—by that process' very design—not representative of what would be considered "normal" or "average" hearing.

It is never a competition, just stating that most people heard a difference, that is a fact.

We do use a wide range of people. A 50% score on the preliminary test tells us little, think about flipping a coin. The bar is not set exceptionally high, we generally start at 60% lol. Otherwise some of us might not make it into the group. We have only had a couple instances where people were not allowed and one qualified later. The other one visited the audiologist in our group and most likely would qualify now.

 

[Ripper2860]

One of the founding and lifetime members?

 

[Ripper2860]

If so, I hope y'all listen via speakers and not headphones.

 

[Paladin79]

One of the founding and lifetime members?

Membership in the core group has a tendency to change and I no longer run the group so I do not make the rules. Many folks do come back to join in comparisons even though some end up at other universities. We generally maintain a wide range of folks from all over the world. Some of the core people are from Jamaica, Germany, and Sweden.

It was not my intent to step on any toes, I do believe many of the folks on here who hear a gungnir and yggdrasil side by side do hear a difference. I do not recall anyone ever saying they could not hear a difference but it might have happened.

I would have to travel to cities all over the US to hear 15 to 20 different DACS so I am fortunate to hear them in one location over a weekend under what are nearly identical circumstances. Even then I like to get the opinion of others who might hear above 15k.

 

[Ripper2860]

My apologies to those that I may have unintentionally offended.

 

[JLoud]

Perfectly put!

Although there's also a third option: Autism.

Most people's brains filter out sounds that are irrelevant to what they're currently focusing on. That means that during conversations in a crowded place, for example, their neurological setup allows their perception to let secondary noises and voices fade into the background, while whatever sound or voice they're focusing on remains in the foreground. When listening to music, background noise becomes less pronounced. When they read, most sounds are no longer really perceived at all. Only when something out of the ordinary happens acoustically, their brains let it break though to the front of their perceptions.

In most neurotypical people, this happens automatically with little to no effort.

Some people on the spectrum, however, don't really have the ability to do that. To them, everything their ears pick up ends up being consciously perceived more or less unfiltered. Background noises and voices not relevant to their current conversation remain more or less exactly as loud as the voices they try to focus on. When listening to music, environmental noises remain just as pronounced as they would be without the music. While reading, no sounds fade into the background, they just remain as loud as they always are.

This might be sharing a little too much, but I belong to that second group of people.

It's a blessing, and it's a curse.

It's a blessing, because I'm always aware of what's going on around me. Literally always. You will be hard-pressed to sneak up and startle me, and no matter how noisy it gets inside a car, I more or less always know where other cars are located around me. It's a great "safety feature" to have access to.

But it's also a curse because the amount of energy it takes me to even just halfway decently filter out one voice while listening to a conversation in a crowded place. Half an hour into a lively group conversation at your average echoy American family restaurant and I'll be utterly drained for the rest of the day.

It also means that I'll hear everything in the music. Every detail and every nuance, but also every single flaw that's in the mix, even the tiniest bit of clipping. It all bubbles through to the front of my perception. I think that that's why I'm able to hear that DACs like Yggy OG and Gungnir MB are actually worlds apart in their sound signature. But it also means that a lot of music that's less well produced sounds like nails on a chalk board to me, which is especially true for most mainstream productions.

So, yeah.

There's hearing, there's listening — and then there's Autism.

You just perfectly described what I deal with. Large crowds are just too much for me. I can’t filter it out. I actually prefer to listen to music with my eyes closed to further reduce distractions.

 

[ArmchairPhilosopher]

You just perfectly described what I deal with. Large crowds are just too much for me. I can’t filter it out. I actually prefer to listen to music with my eyes closed to further reduce distractions.

Mhm.
Plus, I consciously use music as a means to help me focus on my work a little better. Semi-closed or closed headphones, a selection of well-known-to-my-brain music, preferably instrumental, and things get a whole lot easier.
Come to think of it… This would turn the audio gear on my desk into medical devices. I should talk to my health insurance about the purchase of a second Yggy OG…

 

[chronoso]

Yesterday I was listening to Donald Fagen's Nightfly and recalled my son putting on some Steely Dan when he wanted to show off his audio system. (mostly Schiit)
Many folks can relate to specific music and form a decent understanding of SQ, some have to be taught, some may not achieve the understanding. A local friend is very happy with MP3's and has expressed on many occasions that he cannot tell them from cd quality and above, he is quite happy with a fairly low end audio system.

First time test subjects for our blind tests are taught what to listen for and are given examples, then they are given a quick test with two recordings of the same music with specific nuances lessened on one of the recordings. The listeners then hear 20 sets that are mixed up so that the first portion might or might not be the better recording. The differences should be pretty obvious and most score in the 90's and above. Those samples are much more pronounced than what they will be hearing when four identical pieces of music are played through four DACS or amps or tubes, but it is a start. Those of us fifty and older are grandfathered in but still take the test since our high frequencies have diminished .

Those with scores of 60% and lower do not make the cut for the current listening session. They are often given another chance later on with different music.

Oh yeah while listening to Fagen, Finnegan must have stepped on the remote and my PrimaLuna appeared to go into DEFCON 2, red lights came on, the amp protected itself and all music stopped. Luckily no damage was done.

Cats are a perfect reason for protection circuits to exist.

I am reminded of the CatNip software I had running on my computer back when my desk was frequented by felines.

 

[chronoso]

Definitely one of my favorites as well.

Something my ex wife sculpted for me a little while back:



(a few more pictures)

That sort of art can really tie the room together, dude.

 

[streaml1ne]

Mhm.
Plus, I consciously use music as a means to help me focus on my work a little better. Semi-closed or closed headphones, a selection of well-known-to-my-brain music, preferably instrumental, and things get a whole lot easier.
Come to think of it… This would turn the audio gear on my desk into medical devices. I should talk to my health insurance about the purchase of a second Yggy OG…

That would be one hell of an HSA expense

 

[Paladin79]

Cats are a perfect reason for protection circuits to exist.

I am reminded of the CatNip software I had running on my computer back when my desk was frequented by felines.

I was in the sweet spot of the room and the remote was on my desk. Finnegan often visits to look for rubber bands or loose tubes he can use as toys. I am doing a better job of keeping expensive tubes locked up. If he finds a rubber band I shoot it across the room and he fetches it and sets it on the desk so I will do that again.

 

[ArmchairPhilosopher]

It was not my intent to step on any toes, I do believe many of the folks on here who hear a gungnir and yggdrasil side by side do hear a difference. I do not recall anyone ever saying they could not hear a difference but it might have happened.

No worries, no toes felt stepped on.
But again: Folks around here are already pre-screened in a way, too. This is the main thread for a company that's known to make some of the best DACs out there. A thread that's hosted by an audiophile community. It follows that you won't find a whole lot of non-audiophile folks around these hallowed halls. And based on some of the stories you relate to us, the same probably applies to your circle of friends.
But you'd be surprised at the amount of people who will insist that they can't hear the least bit of difference between the DAC in their phone and an Yggy. Among the people I usually spend my time with, there's not a single one among them who doesn't think that I'm crazy for what I spend on audio gear. They all, without an exception, think that the systems in their Fords and Chevys are the cream of the crop in terms of audio quality, and they swear by their 120 dollar sound bars and Echos.

That's all I was trying to say by that.

 

[Paladin79]

No worries, no toes felt stepped on.
But again: Folks around here are already pre-screened in a way, too. This is the main thread for a company that's known to make some of the best DACs out there. A thread that's hosted by an audiophile community. It follows that you won't find a whole lot of non-audiophile folks around these hallowed halls. And the same probably applies to your circle of friends.
But you'd be surprised at the amount of people who will insist that they can't hear the least bit of difference between the DAC in their phone and an Yggy. Among the people I usually spend my time with, there's not a single one among them who doesn't think that I'm crazy for what I spend on audio gear. They all, without an exception, think that the systems in their Fords and Chevys are the cream of the crop in terms of audio quality, and they swear by their 120 dollar sound bars and Echos.

That's all I was trying to say by that.

Our core group is about 35 but along the way we include all kinds of folks in the blind listening. Many are college students who are willing to give up an entire weekend or longer just to be involved. I cannot go into specifics but there are a few folks in our group that can be helpful with academics as well as careers. We have quite a waiting list. I am no help of course unless they want to learn woodworking.

Your ex is very talented, the ability to sculpt hands tells a lot.

 

[Plautus001]

Perfectly put!

Although there's also a third option: Autism.

Most people's brains filter out sounds that are irrelevant to what they're currently focusing on. That means that during conversations in a crowded place, for example, their neurological setup allows their perception to let secondary noises and voices fade into the background, while whatever sound or voice they're focusing on remains in the foreground. When listening to music, background noise becomes less pronounced. When they read, most sounds are no longer really perceived at all. Only when something out of the ordinary happens acoustically, their brains let it break though to the front of their perceptions.

In most neurotypical people, this happens automatically with little to no effort.

Some people on the spectrum, however, don't really have the ability to do that. To them, everything their ears pick up ends up being consciously perceived more or less unfiltered. Background noises and voices not relevant to their current conversation remain more or less exactly as loud as the voices they try to focus on. When listening to music, environmental noises remain just as pronounced as they would be without the music. While reading, no sounds fade into the background, they just remain as loud as they always are.

This might be sharing a little too much, but I belong to that second group of people.

It's a blessing, and it's a curse.

It's a blessing, because I'm always aware of what's going on around me. Literally always. You will be hard-pressed to sneak up and startle me, and no matter how noisy it gets inside a car, I more or less always know where other cars are located around me. It's a great "safety feature" to have access to.

But it's also a curse because the amount of energy it takes me to even just halfway decently filter out one voice while listening to a conversation in a crowded place. Half an hour into a lively group conversation at your average echoy American family restaurant and I'll be utterly drained for the rest of the day.

It also means that I'll hear everything in the music. Every detail and every nuance, but also every single flaw that's in the mix, even the tiniest bit of clipping. It all bubbles through to the front of my perception. I think that that's why I'm able to hear that DACs like Yggy OG and Gungnir MB are actually worlds apart in their sound signature. But it also means that a lot of music that's less well produced sounds like nails on a chalk board to me, which is especially true for most mainstream productions.

So, yeah.

There's hearing, there's listening — and then there's Autism.

Thanks for sharing and enlightening us... very well appreciated as I will soon be working with people on the spectrum.

I appreciate your well articulated post (most of them are) and it will definitely serve as guidance in the future .