It's totally different, now microprocessor-controlled.
I have exactly one piece of Ikea furniture, in my observatory. Whatever it is made of, I don't think it's wood.
Uniformity has advantages when you're manufacturing things with speed in mind and visual appeal taking a back seat to accurate dimensions.
Obviously hung up because of the custom paint you requested.I'm personally waiting for the paperwork to go through for mine - a fire engine red M1 Abrams with two synchronized .50 cals mounted on the front corners controlled by head/eye motion. For some reason which I cannot fathom, there's been a delay in signing off on that.
Leave it behind? And lower your sale price?
I think I checked right after I read the announcement and the upgrade wasn't there on the website yet. Checked again several minutes later and saw it.You had me confused. The Bifrost 2/64 upgrade wasn't listed yet, when I looked earlier today...!
Now, maybe if I procrastinate long enough, I'll be able to get a LIM upgrade for my D/S Gungnir...!
@Jason Stoddard, I have two questions:2022, Chapter 9
Less Less is More More
“Oh no, another crazy-named Yggy variant!” someone exclaims.
Well, thankfully, no. In this case the “less less” could refer to the even-lower price of a totally different product, and and the “more more” could refer to the sound, or it could refer to the number of DACs, or it could refer to the fact that, maybe, finally, we’ve started to do upgrades on a more (ahem) rational basis. Or it could just refer to the fact that we can’t really get the AD5781s with any great certainty anymore, so we decided to give you something much more interesting.
“So what the hell is it, and what are you talking about, anyway?” You say. “Stop being cryptic and spill the beans!”
Okay. Here it is:
All of the above is referring to the new Bifrost 2/64.
And now you know why I was a bit cagey in the title. Because here you come with the deluge of questions: “What the hell is a Bifrost 2/64 anyway? Does it have 64 bits? It is kinda like a desktop Less is More? Can I upgrade my old Bifrost 2? Does it reduce to a Bifrost 1/32? Why does it cost more? Is it delta-sigma? Why’d you upgrade so fast, Bifrost 2 just came out? How is it different than Bifrost 2? Oh no, now I have choices with Bifrost 2? How do I choose?”
Yeah. I hear you. I’ll get to all that.
But let me dispense with the last two questions first.
“An unambiguous upgrade?” you ask, eyes narrowing. “You said with Yggdrasil that this is about ‘flavors’ now! What happened to that?”
- No, you don’t have choices with Bifrost 2.
- As of now, there is only Bifrost 2/64.
- And perhaps the biggest relief: this is an unambiguous upgrade.
Yes, we did. And nothing has changed. There’s no trickery here. The reason Bifrost 2/64 is an unambiguous upgrade is that it’s clearly superior, in at least three and a half ways:
So. Yeah. No choices.
- Bifrost 2/64 is now a hardware-balanced DAC. The original Bifrost 2 used two Analog Devices AD5781 D/A converters in a single-ended configuration, with the balanced outputs derived from the single-ended ones. There’s nothing inherently wrong with that, but Mike sayeth “hardware balanced is the True and Proper way to do a Multibit DAC,” so Bifrost 2/64 now uses four Texas Instruments DAC8812s for true balanced output, as well as single-ended.
- It measures better. In fact, Bifrost 2/64 is the first of our True Multibit DACs to achieve THD+N levels lower than -100dB (-102dB typical). I know this doesn’t sound like much in the world of delta-sigma steady-state measurement champions (heck, like Modi 3E), but it’s like 15dB better than the original Bifrost 2. And yeah, I know, lots of you aren’t interested in measurements but in sound, so yeah, read on…
- You get more flexibility. Bifrost 2/64 now includes NOS, or non-oversampling, mode. Now, in addition to our “megacomboburrito” filter, you can run your high-rate audio with no digital filter, if that’s the way you wanna roll. And yeah, we know, this is controversial—some people love it, others don’t. But choices are cool, right?
- (Actually 3.5, but Word.) Everyone who’s heard it says it sounds better. I know that the subjective side is gonna be discounted by a whole buncha folk, no matter how big and double-blind our comparisons are. But this is wayyyyyyy different than the Yggdrasil flavors, where we couldn’t even get a consensus between me, Dave, and Mike. This one is far clearer. If you believe in subjective stuff. If you believe we aren’t fooling ourselves.
And I’m very happy it came out that way, because it’s not like we’re going to see any AD5781s until, like, maybe about the time Elon gets his Mars city up and running.
The Importance of Having Something “In the Bank”
The development of Bifrost 2/64 illustrates how important it is to have options, or, as Mike says, “Having something in the bank.”
I mean, there was no way in 2019 that we could predict that the availability of Analog Devices D/A converters would go, well, in the schiitr. And we didn’t really know how bad availability was until the ship dates on current orders started slipping…and the distributor stock dried up…and Analog Devices got real uncertain about when we’d ever their DACs again.
Fortunately, Mike and Dave had been working on alternatives since before Bifrost 2 was launched, literally. The earliest “8812” board was done as a proof of concept for Autonomy Architecture, so we could ensure that we could do seamless firmware and hardware upgrades without the pain of shipping stuff back and forth to our shop.
So could we have offered the Bifrost 2/64 board as an option in 2019? Not really. The early boards were proof of concept.
But as Mike and Dave worked on them, they got better and better. When they started handing them out in early 2020, it was clear—at least to me—that they were a step up.
Fun fact: I’ve had an 8812 board since before COVID.
And, the thing was, when we made a few of these and gave them to early listeners, their reaction was pretty much universal…as in, “When can I get this?”
Heck, Mike bought the boards we’re selling today over a year ago. They’ve literally been sitting here since June 2021.
Which is the reason the Analog Devices DAC Desert hasn’t scorched us: we already had a better plan in place. And it’s been that way a long time.
Aside: this is how we do a lot of things…there’s a ton of stuff “in the bank” right now. Some you’ll see soon. Some…it isn’t time for yet.
Now, some of you may have noticed that I didn’t mention the typical development antics, screw-ups, pains and snafus. This is for good reason: there really weren’t any. Which is to be expected for an analog board development for an upgradable platform. It would have been more notable if there had been problems.
So, hurray for having things in the bank…and hurray for thankfully easy development cycles. Sometimes things do work out.
Let the Snark Flow
I know it’s easy for us to say, “Hey guys, I hope you enjoy this really great DAC!” And, I mean, it is a really great DAC. There’s nowhere else you can get this kind of technology and upgradability (and, let’s not forget, USA manufacturing) anywhere near its price.
But if you’ve been eyeing Bifrost 2 for a while, you’ve noticed that Bifrost 2/64 is $100 more. That might hurt. And we’re not thrilled to raise the price. But it’s time to do it, because it’s a better, more flexible DAC. Also, to be frank, our costs have increased significantly. Chassis, PC boards, assembly labor, transformers, internal costs…it’s all up. Which means it’s time for a price adjustment.
Aside: I know someone is gonna mention that I said, “This silver price adjustment is probably the only one we need, if things don’t change.” Well, things changed. Sorry about that. We’re still gonna do everything we can to keep prices down. But we’re heading into uncertain times. If you like the prices now, best to pick something up. Short of divine intervention, they’re only going one direction. Aside to the aside: as an example, I spent a bunch of time this year and last working with one of our suppliers on a whole new chassis idea, one that would use advanced stamping to reduce production and assembly cost. The great news is that it significantly reduced costs…which were immediately eaten in higher raw material and labor prices. So the net was zero. But at least it’s not an increase. You’ll see that new chassis sometime this year.
Also, if you already have a Bifrost 2, you may be thinking, “upgrades so early?” and groaning about the $300 cost. But here’s the thing: Bifrost 2 was introduced nearly 3 years ago. Yes. Three years. Time flies when you’re having COVID. This is the first and only upgrade we’ve done to Bifrost 2.
Now, sit back and think about that: one upgrade in three years.
In the dog-years timeline of DACs, that isn’t bad. That isn’t unreasonable. Hell, entire DACs have come and gone in the time Bifrost 2 has existed. Which means your “upgrade” would have been buying an entirely new DAC. Remember, Bifrost 2 is the only hardware- and firmware-upgradable DAC anywhere near its price.
It may make you feel a bit better too, when you realize that your Bifrost 2 doesn’t need to come back to the Schiit mothership for upgrade. Order the upgrade and we send you a slide-in analog card module and new firmware on an SD card. Install the analog card, plug in the SD card, turn on the DAC, let the firmware update, remove the SD card, and you’re done.
Aside: also, let’s also be clear: this is an optional upgrade. It’s not like Bifrost 2 is a bad DAC. You can upgrade to Bifrost 2/64 if you want to…or stay with Bifrost 2. No pressure.
Whew. Enough snark.
Snark-Free Zone
Let’s check in on those questions I mentioned at the start of the chapter.
Hmm. It actually looks like I answered most of them—what it is, how it’s different, etc. It looks like a lot of them are related to the new name and our associated terminology. Let me clean up the rest, starting with the name.
Does the Bifrost 2/64 have 64 bits? LOL. This is a fun one. With four dual 16-bit D/A converters, it actually has 128 bits. Or 2 channels, 64 bits each. Hence the name. Adding the number of bits together is something I wish I’d thought of back during the bit depth wars when some people were saying, “Wait, Yggdrasil only has 20 bit converters? What about other DACs with 32 bits?” It would have been tons of fun to say, “Our new Yggy OG/80 has 80 total bits! Holy moly!”
Aside: of course, four dual 16-bit D/A converters don’t equate to 128 bits of resolution, or 64 bits of resolution per channel, because physics, and because D/As don’t stack that way. Especially when we’re counting the total number of bits in each channel to be kinda marketing-y. The way it really works, with hardware balanced DACs, is you end up with about 1 more bit. So four 16-bit DACs get you about 18 bits of resolution, which is pretty close to where we are with Bifrost 2/64.Aside to the aside: Nor does all of this counting-bits silliness matter very much, because 64 bits is unpossible (calculate it yourself), and hell, no “32-bit” delta-sigma DAC can resolve anything like 32 bits anyway (and they are usually 2-5 bits, plus lots of math), most music won’t get better than 16 bits of resolution (despite being billed as “24 bit” files), and hell, as soon as you turn the pot on your amplifier, you’re probably killing any chance of -120dB THD+N anyway, simply thanks to thermal noise. So I don’t feel bad being a bit of a marketing puke and calling this product Bifrost 2/64.
Is Bifrost 2/64 kinda like a desktop Less is More? Good question. Yes it is. It uses the same D/A converters in a similar hardware-balanced configuration. Of course, it doesn’t have Yggdrasil Less is More’s associated analog components and over-the-top power supply. However, it does fit on most desks used by sane humans, something Yggdrasil can’t easily claim.
Is it delta-sigma? Nope. Bifrost 2/64 is a True Multibit DAC, using our own digital filters and high-bit-depth D/A converters.
Does it reduce to Bifrost 1/32? Nope. It’s 2 channels, 64 bits per channel. Again, this is marketing silliness. Relax and enjoy the music—on Bifrost 2 or Bifrost 2/64.
Special bonus question, because I know you have to know:
What with NOS? Yep. Heard. But some people may not even know what we’re talking about. So let’s dive in a bit deeper…
Aaaanndd…that’s about it. I really hope you like our all-new same-old less-bit-depth less-crazy more-converters more-options more-pricey (a bit, sigh) Bifrost 2/64 DAC!
- Bifrost 2/64 is our first True Multibit product that allows you to turn off our unique time- and frequency-domain optimized digital filter—what Mike calls the “megacomboburrito” filter—and choose to have no digital filter at all, or “NOS.”
- Some people love our megacomboburrito filter, others like NOS, and even others run their own digital filters on their sources, to feed an NOS DAC. Because it’s relatively simple to turn off our own digital filter, we decided to give you the option to turn it off.
- You won’t stumble into this mode. You have to press and hold the front button to get there, and the input light will be in a “breathing” slow-pulse state when Bifrost 2/64 is in NOS mode. Bifrost 2/64 will also revert to the standard megacomboburrito filter when it’s turned off and on again.
- All of this is a bit controversial, due to the non-ideal nature of NOS DAC output, especially with low bit-rate content, but, after a bunch of discussion, we decided to give you the option, rather than be your crazy wine aunt/uncle who always knows what’s best for you.
- Mike and Dave still like the megacomboburrito filter over all else. So there.
THIS is why I bought the BF2 as my desktop DAC… can’t wait2022, Chapter 9
Less Less is More More
“Oh no, another crazy-named Yggy variant!” someone exclaims.
Well, thankfully, no. In this case the “less less” could refer to the even-lower price of a totally different product, and and the “more more” could refer to the sound, or it could refer to the number of DACs, or it could refer to the fact that, maybe, finally, we’ve started to do upgrades on a more (ahem) rational basis. Or it could just refer to the fact that we can’t really get the AD5781s with any great certainty anymore, so we decided to give you something much more interesting.
“So what the hell is it, and what are you talking about, anyway?” You say. “Stop being cryptic and spill the beans!”
Okay. Here it is:
All of the above is referring to the new Bifrost 2/64.
And now you know why I was a bit cagey in the title. Because here you come with the deluge of questions: “What the hell is a Bifrost 2/64 anyway? Does it have 64 bits? It is kinda like a desktop Less is More? Can I upgrade my old Bifrost 2? Does it reduce to a Bifrost 1/32? Why does it cost more? Is it delta-sigma? Why’d you upgrade so fast, Bifrost 2 just came out? How is it different than Bifrost 2? Oh no, now I have choices with Bifrost 2? How do I choose?”
Yeah. I hear you. I’ll get to all that.
But let me dispense with the last two questions first.
“An unambiguous upgrade?” you ask, eyes narrowing. “You said with Yggdrasil that this is about ‘flavors’ now! What happened to that?”
- No, you don’t have choices with Bifrost 2.
- As of now, there is only Bifrost 2/64.
- And perhaps the biggest relief: this is an unambiguous upgrade.
Yes, we did. And nothing has changed. There’s no trickery here. The reason Bifrost 2/64 is an unambiguous upgrade is that it’s clearly superior, in at least three and a half ways:
So. Yeah. No choices.
- Bifrost 2/64 is now a hardware-balanced DAC. The original Bifrost 2 used two Analog Devices AD5781 D/A converters in a single-ended configuration, with the balanced outputs derived from the single-ended ones. There’s nothing inherently wrong with that, but Mike sayeth “hardware balanced is the True and Proper way to do a Multibit DAC,” so Bifrost 2/64 now uses four Texas Instruments DAC8812s for true balanced output, as well as single-ended.
- It measures better. In fact, Bifrost 2/64 is the first of our True Multibit DACs to achieve THD+N levels lower than -100dB (-102dB typical). I know this doesn’t sound like much in the world of delta-sigma steady-state measurement champions (heck, like Modi 3E), but it’s like 15dB better than the original Bifrost 2. And yeah, I know, lots of you aren’t interested in measurements but in sound, so yeah, read on…
- You get more flexibility. Bifrost 2/64 now includes NOS, or non-oversampling, mode. Now, in addition to our “megacomboburrito” filter, you can run your high-rate audio with no digital filter, if that’s the way you wanna roll. And yeah, we know, this is controversial—some people love it, others don’t. But choices are cool, right?
- (Actually 3.5, but Word.) Everyone who’s heard it says it sounds better. I know that the subjective side is gonna be discounted by a whole buncha folk, no matter how big and double-blind our comparisons are. But this is wayyyyyyy different than the Yggdrasil flavors, where we couldn’t even get a consensus between me, Dave, and Mike. This one is far clearer. If you believe in subjective stuff. If you believe we aren’t fooling ourselves.
And I’m very happy it came out that way, because it’s not like we’re going to see any AD5781s until, like, maybe about the time Elon gets his Mars city up and running.
The Importance of Having Something “In the Bank”
The development of Bifrost 2/64 illustrates how important it is to have options, or, as Mike says, “Having something in the bank.”
I mean, there was no way in 2019 that we could predict that the availability of Analog Devices D/A converters would go, well, in the schiitr. And we didn’t really know how bad availability was until the ship dates on current orders started slipping…and the distributor stock dried up…and Analog Devices got real uncertain about when we’d ever their DACs again.
Fortunately, Mike and Dave had been working on alternatives since before Bifrost 2 was launched, literally. The earliest “8812” board was done as a proof of concept for Autonomy Architecture, so we could ensure that we could do seamless firmware and hardware upgrades without the pain of shipping stuff back and forth to our shop.
So could we have offered the Bifrost 2/64 board as an option in 2019? Not really. The early boards were proof of concept.
But as Mike and Dave worked on them, they got better and better. When they started handing them out in early 2020, it was clear—at least to me—that they were a step up.
Fun fact: I’ve had an 8812 board since before COVID.
And, the thing was, when we made a few of these and gave them to early listeners, their reaction was pretty much universal…as in, “When can I get this?”
Heck, Mike bought the boards we’re selling today over a year ago. They’ve literally been sitting here since June 2021.
Which is the reason the Analog Devices DAC Desert hasn’t scorched us: we already had a better plan in place. And it’s been that way a long time.
Aside: this is how we do a lot of things…there’s a ton of stuff “in the bank” right now. Some you’ll see soon. Some…it isn’t time for yet.
Now, some of you may have noticed that I didn’t mention the typical development antics, screw-ups, pains and snafus. This is for good reason: there really weren’t any. Which is to be expected for an analog board development for an upgradable platform. It would have been more notable if there had been problems.
So, hurray for having things in the bank…and hurray for thankfully easy development cycles. Sometimes things do work out.
Let the Snark Flow
I know it’s easy for us to say, “Hey guys, I hope you enjoy this really great DAC!” And, I mean, it is a really great DAC. There’s nowhere else you can get this kind of technology and upgradability (and, let’s not forget, USA manufacturing) anywhere near its price.
But if you’ve been eyeing Bifrost 2 for a while, you’ve noticed that Bifrost 2/64 is $100 more. That might hurt. And we’re not thrilled to raise the price. But it’s time to do it, because it’s a better, more flexible DAC. Also, to be frank, our costs have increased significantly. Chassis, PC boards, assembly labor, transformers, internal costs…it’s all up. Which means it’s time for a price adjustment.
Aside: I know someone is gonna mention that I said, “This silver price adjustment is probably the only one we need, if things don’t change.” Well, things changed. Sorry about that. We’re still gonna do everything we can to keep prices down. But we’re heading into uncertain times. If you like the prices now, best to pick something up. Short of divine intervention, they’re only going one direction. Aside to the aside: as an example, I spent a bunch of time this year and last working with one of our suppliers on a whole new chassis idea, one that would use advanced stamping to reduce production and assembly cost. The great news is that it significantly reduced costs…which were immediately eaten in higher raw material and labor prices. So the net was zero. But at least it’s not an increase. You’ll see that new chassis sometime this year.
Also, if you already have a Bifrost 2, you may be thinking, “upgrades so early?” and groaning about the $300 cost. But here’s the thing: Bifrost 2 was introduced nearly 3 years ago. Yes. Three years. Time flies when you’re having COVID. This is the first and only upgrade we’ve done to Bifrost 2.
Now, sit back and think about that: one upgrade in three years.
In the dog-years timeline of DACs, that isn’t bad. That isn’t unreasonable. Hell, entire DACs have come and gone in the time Bifrost 2 has existed. Which means your “upgrade” would have been buying an entirely new DAC. Remember, Bifrost 2 is the only hardware- and firmware-upgradable DAC anywhere near its price.
It may make you feel a bit better too, when you realize that your Bifrost 2 doesn’t need to come back to the Schiit mothership for upgrade. Order the upgrade and we send you a slide-in analog card module and new firmware on an SD card. Install the analog card, plug in the SD card, turn on the DAC, let the firmware update, remove the SD card, and you’re done.
Aside: also, let’s also be clear: this is an optional upgrade. It’s not like Bifrost 2 is a bad DAC. You can upgrade to Bifrost 2/64 if you want to…or stay with Bifrost 2. No pressure.
Whew. Enough snark.
Snark-Free Zone
Let’s check in on those questions I mentioned at the start of the chapter.
Hmm. It actually looks like I answered most of them—what it is, how it’s different, etc. It looks like a lot of them are related to the new name and our associated terminology. Let me clean up the rest, starting with the name.
Does the Bifrost 2/64 have 64 bits? LOL. This is a fun one. With four dual 16-bit D/A converters, it actually has 128 bits. Or 2 channels, 64 bits each. Hence the name. Adding the number of bits together is something I wish I’d thought of back during the bit depth wars when some people were saying, “Wait, Yggdrasil only has 20 bit converters? What about other DACs with 32 bits?” It would have been tons of fun to say, “Our new Yggy OG/80 has 80 total bits! Holy moly!”
Aside: of course, four dual 16-bit D/A converters don’t equate to 128 bits of resolution, or 64 bits of resolution per channel, because physics, and because D/As don’t stack that way. Especially when we’re counting the total number of bits in each channel to be kinda marketing-y. The way it really works, with hardware balanced DACs, is you end up with about 1 more bit. So four 16-bit DACs get you about 18 bits of resolution, which is pretty close to where we are with Bifrost 2/64.Aside to the aside: Nor does all of this counting-bits silliness matter very much, because 64 bits is unpossible (calculate it yourself), and hell, no “32-bit” delta-sigma DAC can resolve anything like 32 bits anyway (and they are usually 2-5 bits, plus lots of math), most music won’t get better than 16 bits of resolution (despite being billed as “24 bit” files), and hell, as soon as you turn the pot on your amplifier, you’re probably killing any chance of -120dB THD+N anyway, simply thanks to thermal noise. So I don’t feel bad being a bit of a marketing puke and calling this product Bifrost 2/64.
Is Bifrost 2/64 kinda like a desktop Less is More? Good question. Yes it is. It uses the same D/A converters in a similar hardware-balanced configuration. Of course, it doesn’t have Yggdrasil Less is More’s associated analog components and over-the-top power supply. However, it does fit on most desks used by sane humans, something Yggdrasil can’t easily claim.
Is it delta-sigma? Nope. Bifrost 2/64 is a True Multibit DAC, using our own digital filters and high-bit-depth D/A converters.
Does it reduce to Bifrost 1/32? Nope. It’s 2 channels, 64 bits per channel. Again, this is marketing silliness. Relax and enjoy the music—on Bifrost 2 or Bifrost 2/64.
Special bonus question, because I know you have to know:
What with NOS? Yep. Heard. But some people may not even know what we’re talking about. So let’s dive in a bit deeper…
Aaaanndd…that’s about it. I really hope you like our all-new same-old less-bit-depth less-crazy more-converters more-options more-pricey (a bit, sigh) Bifrost 2/64 DAC!
- Bifrost 2/64 is our first True Multibit product that allows you to turn off our unique time- and frequency-domain optimized digital filter—what Mike calls the “megacomboburrito” filter—and choose to have no digital filter at all, or “NOS.”
- Some people love our megacomboburrito filter, others like NOS, and even others run their own digital filters on their sources, to feed an NOS DAC. Because it’s relatively simple to turn off our own digital filter, we decided to give you the option to turn it off.
- You won’t stumble into this mode. You have to press and hold the front button to get there, and the input light will be in a “breathing” slow-pulse state when Bifrost 2/64 is in NOS mode. Bifrost 2/64 will also revert to the standard megacomboburrito filter when it’s turned off and on again.
- All of this is a bit controversial, due to the non-ideal nature of NOS DAC output, especially with low bit-rate content, but, after a bunch of discussion, we decided to give you the option, rather than be your crazy wine aunt/uncle who always knows what’s best for you.
- Mike and Dave still like the megacomboburrito filter over all else. So there.
