[artur9]

   
I believe that from a technical point of view, N=2 qualifies as a "Groundswell of Enthusiasm."

I have a phono stage with a ADC.  Love it.  I'm sure Schiit could do better.  So does N=5 mean "wild enthusiasm with open checkbooks"?
 
(edit for increased N).

 

[Baldr]

My lack of respect for delta sigma DACs is only slightly exceeded by the same for sigma delta A2D converters - they are suitable for cheap (oops, inexpensive) prosumer stuff.  How much is it worth for a user to digitize their vinyl??  Think about it.  If they were making original recordings, it would be worth a bit more.  Easy to do for Bifrost money or less, and amazing in the context of all of the other insipid stuff out there.
 
To do a real multi-bit megacomboburrito deal recording at balanced in at 24 bit 250-500KHz sampling rate AES/EBU out (USB is for children and feral wannabe engineers) as good as the stuff I made (Gain 1) for Mobile Fidelity is going to cost like an Yggy.  But it will be really *** good.  How many people really need that?  Wants and needs are different.

 

[aamefford]

  snip...
 
 feral wannabe engineers
 
and snip...

 
as an engineer, and one who has spent (more than) enough time in aerospace and rotating equipment, the mental images this phrase conjures for me are priceless.  I'm gonna giggle till the day I die over this one!

 

[watchnerd]

  My lack of respect for delta sigma DACs is only slightly exceeded by the same for sigma delta A2D converters - they are suitable for cheap (oops, inexpensive) prosumer stuff. 

 
I'm sorry, but this statement just flies in the face of reality.
 
Regardless of what you think about them, sigma delta ADCs are used in some very expensive and very highly regarded pro gear.  The vast majority of recordings made today are done so using sigma delta ADCs.

 

[watchnerd]

 
To do a real multi-bit megacomboburrito deal recording at balanced in at 24 bit 250-500KHz sampling rate AES/EBU out (USB is for children and feral wannabe engineers) 

 
P.S. Thunderbolt smokes both USB and AES/EBU.

 

[Koolpep]

I'm sorry, but this statement just flies in the face of reality.

Regardless of what you think about them, sigma delta ADCs are used in some very expensive and very highly regarded pro gear.  The vast majority of recordings made today are done so using sigma delta ADCs.

These two statements are not mutually exclusive.

 

[watchnerd]

These two statements are not mutually exclusive.

 
As a matter of personal opinion, they are not mutually exclusive.
 
However, when that opinion flies in the face of what pros who actually buy and use this stuff for a living use to produce the live events and make recordings we all listen to.....well, it's not an opinion that matches well with the data.
 
Case in point, one of the local venues (jazz in this case) I volunteer with uses one of these:
 

 
It's a far far cry from cheap prosumer gear.
 
Some specs (more here):
 
Number of Channels

32 in 24 out

AD Conversion

Sample Rate: 96.0 kHz, 48 kHz, 44.1 kHz
Signal Processing: 24 bits

DA Conversion

Sample Rate : 96.0 kHz, 48 kHz, 44.1 kHz
Signal Processing: 24 bits

 

Those are all sigma-delta / delta-sigma ADC/DAC, BTW.

 
 

 

[Baldr]

   
I'm sorry, but this statement just flies in the face of reality.
 
Regardless of what you think about them, sigma delta ADCs are used in some very expensive and very highly regarded pro gear.  The vast majority of recordings made today are done so using sigma delta ADCs.

Perhaps I should have said SD A2D chips are proper to prosumer gear at best.  DS chips are also used in some very pricey DACs - we can agree to disagree.  I have built them all and greatly prefer mb
 
I would suggest you may find some more agreement in sound science as opposed to this thread in particular.

 

[watchnerd]

 
Perhaps I should have said SD A2D chips are proper to prosumer gear at best. 

 
So all the guys at 2L, Chesky, ECM, etc, who are using sigma-delta ADCs to make amazing recordings are just misinformed?

 

[AudioBear]

Much as I love Mike's MB designs and in particular my new Gumby,  I have to chuckle that he's sending someone over to sound science to make a case for SD ADCs.  

 

[yay101]

The case could equally be made 99% of terrible sounding recordings are made on SD ADC's too.

And Microsoft is still popular with people who got their Microsoft certified diplomas in the 90's.

And oracle is still popular with legacy and government slow moving clients.

Technology changes in some circles much faster than others, and the end user is usually oblivious. Personally I'm more likely to take an engineer who's doing new things advice over that of a end user. But perhaps you have inside knowledge I don't, and in that case forget I suggested it.

 

[disastermouse]

The case could equally be made 99% of terrible sounding recordings are made on SD ADC's too.

And Microsoft is still popular with people who got their Microsoft certified diplomas in the 90's.

And oracle is still popular with legacy and government slow moving clients.

Technology changes in some circles much faster than others, and the end user is usually oblivious. Personally I'm more likely to take an engineer who's doing new things advice over that of a end user. But perhaps you have inside knowledge I don't, and in that case forget I suggested it.

Right? How much of it is the equipment and how much of it is the ears/minds/priorities of the producers?

 

[yay101]

Right? How much of it is the equipment and how much of it is the ears/minds/priorities of the producers?

Absolutely. I get excited when I hear "the producer who did x is working with y" because the difference right there in the driver seat is incredible.

 

[watchnerd]

The case could equally be made 99% of terrible sounding recordings are made on SD ADC's too.
 

 
Yes, this is also true.
 
The point is this: pretty much all the ADCs in the current recording production chain are sigma-delta.  The statement that it's not suitable for pro use is pretty silly given how pervasively it is used by pros.  The professional recording engineers (for the most part...I don't know of any exceptions, but there probably are) have decided to use sigma-delta, and made that decision quite some time ago.
 
Even Mobile Fidelity, previous users of R2R in their Gain 1 system, has gone SD/DS (DSD) with their Gain HD system (used for analog tape master transfers):
 
"From there the signal is directly coupled to MFSL's 4X DSD A/D converter which samples at 11.2 MHz or 256fs, or 256 times the CD sampling rate of 44.1 kHz. The 4X DSD file is then downsampled to 1X DSD for the SACD layer and the 4X DSD file is also downsampled to 44.1 kHz for the CD layer. "
 
Source: http://hometheaterreview.com/mobile-fidelity-details-new-dsd-mastering-technology/

 

[Armaegis]

I've met a couple guys who still still record on magnetic tape and master in the analog realm... buncha weirdos