[FLTWS]

Yeah, thanks. I asked after reading about how challenging it was to find tubes. Worst case maybe they could bring those back . Hell, these days I would buy a set to experiment in my Freya+

I think that could be a possibility for new units; letting the buyer use / obtain, the brand / type, of their choice.
Or, let the buyer choose "with" or "without" tubes when ordering a unit.
Of course, the cans don't sound bad with a good warm-up, they just don't sound like toobs!

 

[Ripper2860]

Bill is a man of taste and style, not much, but he knows his cardboard. said no one ever!

FTFY.

 

[ArmchairPhilosopher]

Yeah, thanks. I asked after reading about how challenging it was to find tubes. Worst case maybe they could bring those back . Hell, these days I would buy a set to experiment in my Freya+

Maybe that would be a nice stop-gap solution until the tube situation eases up:
Bring back Lisst and offer three variants for each tube amp: No tubes, with Lisst, and with (premium) tubes.

"no tubes" would be for people who want to hunt down and roll them themselves,
"with tubes" would be for the plug-and-play folks,
and "with Lisst" would be for those who want to get a tube-ready amp right now, but don't want to shell out a premium for tubes while availability remains this iffy, and get into the toobey goodness of things a little down the road when the new-production situation eases up a bit.

Knowing that Lisst exists would also serve as a nice little insurance that your shiny (or black - we all make mistakes sometimes, I don't judge ) new tube amp won't be worthless in a year or two because you can no longer get your hands on affordable tubes that don't sound like ass.

FWIW:
If Schiit ever gets into the new production tube business and makes them in-house-ish, I'd be SOOO game for that. I loooooooooveloveloveloveLOVE! me the sound of a tube amp. And while I do enjoy rolling tubes, it almost feels like a bit of a necessity at this point; which kinda spoils the fun a little bit. I really wouldn't mind if I could live in a world in which I could just get a new set for my amps once a year from a manufacturer that I can trust to always get the best-sounding bang for my buck, and be done with it. Rolling is nice, but living without "great-sounding tube supply anxiety" is even nicer in my (pocket-)book.
And yes, if Schiit can somehow manage to get hold of someone who knows how to design a great sounding tube, I have absolutely no doubt that they would knock it out of the park, and then some.

I don't actually think that any of this is likely to happen, of course. Since new-production tubes tend to be copies of stuff that's been designed close to a century ago, I'm not sure that there's anyone left alive who actually knows how to design a tube, much less how to get a certain sound signature out of them. (That is, of course, if the sound signature of a tube was ever possible to be "designed" in the first place and not just a luck of the draw kind of thing all along.)
Plus; while difficult enough to do well, designing and assembling audio gear from parts that you can source from third parties is one thing. Making high-grade tubes from raw materials in larger quantities and to a non-boutique price point? That, to quote a certain "BMF", ain't the same f#c&in' ballpark; it ain't the same league; it ain't even the same f#c&in' sport.

But one thing is for pretty dang sure: If there's one company that has built right into its DNA the planet-sized level of bat-schiit-crazy required to actually attempt this sort of thing, it would have to be Schiit.

 

[Mike-WI]

Interesting article about a particular tube, but also about tubes in general
https://www.stereophile.com/content/gramophone-dreams-48-venus-tube-western-electrics-300b

Gramophone Dreams #48: The Venus Tube, Western Electric's 300B​

Herb Reichert | Apr 27, 2021

...
How it started
Tube rolling—swapping one brand or provenance of tube for another, just to hear if or how the sound changes—is a relatively new pastime. It emerged when most European and American tube manufacturers began shutting down production during the 1980s. Before that, life was simple: We stuck with the stock Mullard EL34s in our Dynaco Stereo 70s, the stock Gold Lion MO-Valve KT88s in our H/K Citation IIs, and those Krispy-Kreme smooth-plate 12AX7 Telefunkens in our Fisher 500cs. Back then, amp manufacturers supplied the best tubes they could because they knew good sound and long tube life were essential to their success.
...

...
You've probably noticed
Many of today's most reasonably priced, highest-value tube amplifiers are sold without tubes. This makes choosing tubes and tube rolling a necessary part of the purchase-and-ownership process. I approve of this trend; obviously, so do many tube aficionados. In 1989, when those shirtless boys were popping WE300Bs with their pistols, no factories were making them. Today, more than a dozen factories, located in China, Europe, Russia, and Japan, are all manufacturing new versions of Western Electric's most famous tube. Competition is fierce to sell the highest-quality tube at the lowest-possible price. Now is a perfect time to start digging those Venus tubes.

 

[Paladin79]

The Chinese are producing some decent 6sn7 equivalents so there are good 6sn7's around but most likely not in the quantity or price range to help Schiit.

It takes knowledge and patience to buy tubes from sellers on Ebay or Etsy. There are 6sn7 threads here where you can obtain a lot of info. The days of finding glorious tubes for $15 each is long gone so price and availability is certainly an issue. I have sellers in Russia I trust but it took a long time to locate the right people, and the wait to get tubes from there can be six weeks so I tend to order several tubes at a time.

Some of the best tubes were produced for the Russian military just as some of the some of the sought after US tubes were JAN and in the case of 6sn7's often bear the VT-231 designation.

Companies like Linear Tube Audio used to charge for specific tubes but they appear to be doing less and less of that.

https://www.lineartubeaudio.com/products/amp-upgrades

 

[45longcolt]

So the major sources of new tubes are Russia and China, neither of whom wish us well.

Remind me again, who won the Cold War?

 

[ArmchairPhilosopher]

So the major sources of new tubes are Russia and China, neither of whom wish us well.

Remind me again, who won the Cold War?

No one; it's still going.

 

[Paladin79]

So the major sources of new tubes are Russia and China, neither of whom wish us well.

Remind me again, who won the Cold War?

So you avoid buying Chinese products? Good luck with that. I am waiting for some 3M parts that might hit this country in January.

An interesting fact about WW2 is that countries like Japan, Germany, and maybe Italy were restricted from producing armaments post war. They turned their attention to other areas like building cars. Russia and China are not exactly known as producers of fine vehicles but Japan, Germany, and Italy sure are.

 

[DougD]

So the major sources of new tubes are Russia and China, neither of whom wish us well.

Well, their GOVTs don't wish us well. (And vice versa, to a large degree.)

Regardless of where they are located, makers of new tubes have to meet the quality expectations for the consumer market given the prices of their offerings, or they don't have sustainable sales or a viable business. (1st edit/add) Most tube purchasers seem to be pretty discriminating and careful. (2nd edit/add) And they share their impressions with other potential purchasers on forums such as this.

 

[Ableza]

 

[ArmchairPhilosopher]

And here I am, trying to keep my tubes dry…

 

[macdonjh]

And here I am, trying to keep my tubes dry…

I don't think the kids in @Ableza's photo care: those are GE tubes and they sound like ass. Float well, though.

 

[Pietro Cozzi Tinin]

But one thing is for pretty dang sure: If there's one company that has built right into its DNA the planet-sized level of bat-schiit-crazy required to actually attempt this sort of thing, it would have to be Schiit.

I highly doubt that they could and there's some serious people making new valves already.
I understand the fan boy drooling dynamics but this is a little ridiculous.

An interesting fact about WW2 is that countries like Japan, Germany, and maybe Italy were restricted from producing armaments. They turned their attention to other areas like building cars. Russia and China are not exactly known as producers of fine vehicles but Japan, Germany, and Italy sure are.

The interesting fact is of course that it was the US that sold the most "hardware" in Europe. Often doing business with parties that opposed each other.

 

[Paladin79]

I highly doubt that they could and there's some serious people making new valves already.
I understand the fan boy drooling dynamics but this is a little ridiculous.

The interesting fact is of course that it was the US that sold the most "hardware" in Europe. Often doing business with parties that opposed each other.

I amended my previous statement, I was talking post war of course. The Japanese did early work with the transistor, a Bell Labs design as I recall. We also helped the Russians with equipment for tube production, Svetlana used RCA equipment but they were allies for a short time. As was China I would think.

 

[Ableza]

fan boy drooling dynamics

A new favorite phrase, right up there with "measurebaters."