[Timster]

Happy to say I scored a Bifrost II (2nd owner) today and initial impressions are "Wow!" Big step up for me from the Modi MB. Lots of listening to do.

 

[tafens]

Happy to say I scored a Bifrost II (2nd owner) today and initial impressions are "Wow!" Big step up for me from the Modi MB. Lots of listening to do.

The Bifrost2 is a great piece of kit, I had the same wow-experience going from the internal multibit card in my Lyr3 to the BF2

 

[ghfiii]

And, they're back

Lokius, B-Stock, Silver, QTY 9, $279

Schiit deals

 

[ArmchairPhilosopher]

Happy to say I scored a Bifrost II (2nd owner) today and initial impressions are "Wow!" Big step up for me from the Modi MB. Lots of listening to do.

I absolutely love my Bifrost II, you definitely made a great choice with your purchase.
But I had to chuckle a little about the part where you said that your initial impressions are "Wow!", just as I have to chuckle every time someone says they can actually hear a difference from one DAC to the next.

Let me explain, don't rage-hit the reply button just yet… ;p

I have pretty good hearing, at least on paper. I'll turn 40 later this year, but I'm still able to hear from about 20Hz to about 19kHz, and I can easily hear a UPS or FedEx truck turn around the corner three blocks down the road while I'm sitting in my office facing out the back of the house with all windows closed, AND tell you which of the two trucks it is.
I can also easily discern the differences in sound between different power amps, preamps, most tubes, speakers, headphones, all that jazz.
But for the life of me, I can't hear a difference between, say, my Bifrost 2 and my Modius, for example. A-B'ing them blindfolded, I honestly couldn't tell you which is which. The only difference between audiophile DACs (by which I don't mean "expensive", but "well made" regardless of price) that I can hear is minute differences in noise floors, but not really in their respective coloration.

BUT!

Keeping everything else the same, I can listen to the Bifrost 2 all day without fatiguing, while Modius makes me want to take a break after two hours. (I even tried this blind, asked someone to hook one of them up for me and hide it under the table, without telling me which it is.)

I have no idea why this is, because A-B'ing them I honestly can't hear much of a difference in how they render their output signal. Especially the upper mids and highs, which is what I feel causes the fatigue for me. Modius doesn't sound harsher to me, Bifrost 2 doesn't sound warmer. Maybe Bifrost 2 is just a tad more accurate in how it keeps both channels synchronized, and a slight shift in timing between the two, which might become more pronounced in its effect at higher frequencies, causes some weird sort of cognitive dissonance for my brain, making me feel like I needed a break after a little while. I have no clue.

So, yeah. That's why I have to chuckle every time someone says they hear an _immediate_ difference between two DACs. There definitely MUST be a difference, there's no doubt about it. But I just can't hear it, at least not right away. Try as I might.

 

[j0val]

I absolutely love my Bifrost II, you definitely made a great choice with your purchase.
But I had to chuckle a little about the part where you said that your initial impressions are "Wow!", just as I have to chuckle every time someone says they can actually hear a difference from one DAC to the next.

Let me explain, don't rage-hit the reply button just yet… ;p

I have pretty good hearing, at least on paper. I'll turn 40 later this year, but I'm still able to hear from about 20Hz to about 19kHz, and I can easily hear a UPS or FedEx truck turn around the corner three blocks down the road while I'm sitting in my office facing out the back of the house with all windows closed, AND tell you which of the two trucks it is.
I can also easily discern the differences in sound between different power amps, preamps, most tubes, speakers, headphones, all that jazz.
But for the life of me, I can't hear a difference between, say, my Bifrost 2 and my Modius, for example. A-B'ing them blindfolded, I honestly couldn't tell you which is which. The only difference between audiophile DACs (by which I don't mean "expensive", but "well made" regardless of price) that I can hear is minute differences in noise floors, but not really in their respective coloration.

BUT!

Keeping everything else the same, I can listen to the Bifrost 2 all day without fatiguing, while Modius makes me want to take a break after two hours. (I even tried this blind, asked someone to hook one of them up for me and hide it under the table, without telling me which it is.)

I have no idea why this is, because A-B'ing them I honestly can't hear much of a difference in how they render their output signal. Especially the upper mids and highs, which is what I feel causes the fatigue for me. Modius doesn't sound harsher to me, Bifrost 2 doesn't sound warmer. Maybe Bifrost 2 is just a tad more accurate in how it keeps both channels synchronized, and a slight shift in timing between the two, which might become more pronounced in its effect at higher frequencies, causes some weird sort of cognitive dissonance for my brain, making me feel like I needed a break after a little while. I have no clue.

So, yeah. That's why I have to chuckle every time someone says they hear an _immediate_ difference between two DACs. There definitely MUST be a difference, there's no doubt about it. But I just can't hear it, at least not right away. Try as I might.

My Bifrost 2 is only the third DAC that I’ve owned (Modi, Modius, Bifrost 2). When I went from the Modius to the Bifrost 2, I had a pair of Grado GH4s at the time (a brand known for its treble). I felt like I could hear a difference (I acknowledge it could be placebo).

On the Modius, the Grados sounded a bit more hot in the treble. So they did become more fatiguing after awhile, even though they were sounding better than the Modi.

After switching to the BF2, the sound became a lot less fatiguing and more euphonic in general. The sub-bass was more “syrupy “ and the hot highs completely went away.

I guess my point is that maybe it depends on your pairings/equipment in regards to how many differences can be heard, if any. Sometimes it’s more than the amount of detail that can be heard.

 

[Billheiser]

Keeping everything else the same, I can listen to the Bifrost 2 all day without fatiguing, while Modius makes me want to take a break after two hours. (I even tried this blind, asked someone to hook one of them up for me and hide it under the table, without telling me which it is.)

IMO, there are a lot of things where the differences take a while to emerge. One has to live with them for a while. One big example: People. You have to know them a long time to get close to knowing them very well; first impressions are not that reliable.
Or music. I can hear a song and like it - but 3 months from now it just ain't that great. Other songs make a fine first impression but it takes years to fully understand and appreciate them, and I continue to love them for decades.
Same principle applies to: Chairs. Jobs. Girlfriends. Philosophies. Etc.

 

[rkw]

I can easily hear a UPS or FedEx truck turn around the corner three blocks down the road

I also have that ability when I'm expecting an audio delivery.

 

[macdonjh]

I absolutely love my Bifrost II, you definitely made a great choice with your purchase.
But I had to chuckle a little about the part where you said that your initial impressions are "Wow!", just as I have to chuckle every time someone says they can actually hear a difference from one DAC to the next.

Let me explain, don't rage-hit the reply button just yet… ;p

I have pretty good hearing, at least on paper. I'll turn 40 later this year, but I'm still able to hear from about 20Hz to about 19kHz, and I can easily hear a UPS or FedEx truck turn around the corner three blocks down the road while I'm sitting in my office facing out the back of the house with all windows closed, AND tell you which of the two trucks it is.
I can also easily discern the differences in sound between different power amps, preamps, most tubes, speakers, headphones, all that jazz.
But for the life of me, I can't hear a difference between, say, my Bifrost 2 and my Modius, for example. A-B'ing them blindfolded, I honestly couldn't tell you which is which. The only difference between audiophile DACs (by which I don't mean "expensive", but "well made" regardless of price) that I can hear is minute differences in noise floors, but not really in their respective coloration.

BUT!

Keeping everything else the same, I can listen to the Bifrost 2 all day without fatiguing, while Modius makes me want to take a break after two hours. (I even tried this blind, asked someone to hook one of them up for me and hide it under the table, without telling me which it is.)

I have no idea why this is, because A-B'ing them I honestly can't hear much of a difference in how they render their output signal. Especially the upper mids and highs, which is what I feel causes the fatigue for me. Modius doesn't sound harsher to me, Bifrost 2 doesn't sound warmer. Maybe Bifrost 2 is just a tad more accurate in how it keeps both channels synchronized, and a slight shift in timing between the two, which might become more pronounced in its effect at higher frequencies, causes some weird sort of cognitive dissonance for my brain, making me feel like I needed a break after a little while. I have no clue.

So, yeah. That's why I have to chuckle every time someone says they hear an _immediate_ difference between two DACs. There definitely MUST be a difference, there's no doubt about it. But I just can't hear it, at least not right away. Try as I might.

I had the same reaction when I first connected my Bifrost I multi-bit up (purchased just before B-stock was gone). Previously I'd been using the analog output from my various DAPs as the source for my head phone system. My immediate first impression, documented somewhere in this thread, was that bass was deeper, more powerful, with greater impact than without my Bifrost. Overall, too, music is more filled-out, richer, more detailed. In almost every way, the sound with my Bifrost is more to my liking than without it. One explanation I find easy to believe is the output stage of my Bifrost does a better job of driving my Mjolnir I than the analog outputs of my DAPs. However, a preference for Schiit's implementation of the DAC, filter, dither, etc. can also be reasons.

Fast forward a few months: I connected my Gungnir delta-sigma, purchased because I was curious what I could gain by "climbing the ladder" and also to find out if I'd hate delta-sigma after being exposed to Schiit multi-bit. The answers are: better sound, and no. Gungnir provides even more of the benefits over Bifrost in my systems than Bifrost provided over my DAPs analog outputs. Not to the same degree, but the differences are noticeable, and they are important to me. In addition to a bit more bass extension, there is better detail retrieval as compared to Bifrost. Highs are smoother, less metallic (in an artificial bad way, not in that they lose shimmer or detail, who wants wooden-sounding cymbals?), less grainy. Bifrost still sounds good to me, but when I choose to listen for it, Gungnir sounds better.

IMO, there are a lot of things where the differences take a while to emerge. One has to live with them for a while. One big example: People. You have to know them a long time to get close to knowing them very well; first impressions are not that reliable.
Or music. I can hear a song and like it - but 3 months from now it just ain't that great. Other songs make a fine first impression but it takes years to fully understand and appreciate them, and I continue to love them for decades.
Same principle applies to: Chairs. Jobs. Girlfriends. Philosophies. Etc.

...or takes years to re-appreciate them after dismissing them from hearing them so often for so long. An example for me are songs by Eagles. I've heard them and heard them, and many times think to myself, "Ugh, this one again?" However, they are well crafted songs and I should listen to them with appreciation. There are other examples, of course. One of the reasons I don't listen to broadcast radio much anymore: avoiding hearing good songs overplayed.

 

[ScottFree]

...or takes years to re-appreciate them after dismissing them from hearing them so often for so long. An example for me are songs by Eagles. I've heard them and heard them, and many times think to myself, "Ugh, this one again?" However, they are well crafted songs and I should listen to them with appreciation. There are other examples, of course. One of the reasons I don't listen to broadcast radio much anymore: avoiding hearing good songs overplayed.

"Relax," said the night man
"We are programmed to receive
You can check out any time you like
But you can never leave"

 

[ArmchairPhilosopher]

Hey guys and gals!

I've been lurking around the forum for quite some time, but never really signed up and posted anything. This will change today, because I feel the urge to give @Jason Stoddard, Mike, and the rest of Schiit a huge compliment.

In early March, I ordered a Gungnir MB. Back then, its product page stated "ships March 31". Yes, the rolling backorder system Schiit switched to since hadn't even been put in place yet, that's how long ago that was. In the meantime, they even did this thing for a while where you had to check off that you understand that the "ships in x-y weeks" will remain the target for your order, even if the backorder estimate on the product page slips further down the road after you have placed your order. Hah, how much I wish that'd be true…

But alas, as of today, I have been waiting close to 21 weeks. That is almost 5 months, around 5 times the estimated shipping target as stated on the day I put in the order, and about twice the estimated "ships in 10-12 weeks" that the product page currently states for orders placed today.

I am not a patient person when it comes to businesses, regardless their size. I am a business owner myself, and I hold other businesses to the same benchmark I apply to my own. This benchmark includes not only that I take promises I make very seriously, but also estimates, as they will inevitably be understood by too many customers as kind of a promise, regardless of how hard I try to make them understand that an estimate and a promise are two vastly different things.
So if a business gives me a shipping estimate of about 3 or 4 weeks, and then repeatedly pushes their estimate further away, that just doesn't sit well with me. Especially if they do so more or less in silence, expecting the customer to proactively keep checking the current state of affairs.

I believe that it should not matter whether you work alone out the corner of your garage, whether you have ten employees, or ten thousand; you keep your estimates and promises. If for unforeseen reasons out of your own control you can't, then you proactively communicate that to your customers. And for that communication to have the desired appeasing effect, it will have to be directly, not via channels that maybe 10 percent of your customer base even knows of, like YouTube streams and the occasional post to some forum thread that's 5331+ pages long. That is in part why you collect email addresses when a customer puts in an order and why group email dispatchers exist.

All right. So you've been reading up to this point and you probably wonder where the compliment is that I mentioned. Well, here it comes:
If this was any other company, they would have irreversibly lost me as a customer many, many months ago.
But this isn't any other company.
This is Schiit, and no matter how you slice it, they make by far the best audio gear I've ever had the pleasure to treat my ears to. Their stuff is so damned good and ahead of the competition, in fact, that they're literally the only business I've ever come across, regardless of the kind of product or service offered, where I have no reservations whatsoever to ignore all of my principles and benchmarks and keep coming back for more.

So… Jason, Mike, Schiit; I know, this whole thing reads like a backhanded compliment, but I sincerely mean it when I say: Kudos to you, this is quite the unique animal you have created.

Yes, I'm not happy that I have to wait for my new toy to arrive. Yes, I'm not happy that I have to pester your customer support team every two to three months to quiet this nagging voice in the back of my head that my order might have fallen out the queue while you moved them to a new processing system. Yes, I'm miffed to see that the backorder-queues of high-volume products appear ('appear' being the operative word here) to receive more attention than the high-value ones that I happen to be sitting in. Yes, I don't think I should have to watch multiple hour-long YouTube streams or search for a needle in a 5331 pages long forum thread to figure out what the deal with Schiit's chip, board, and metal suppliers is. Yes, all this is a very 1st world problem to have.

But all of this isn't the point of this post. All of that princess-on-a-pea whining above is really only meant to underscore just HOW impressed I am with the quality of the gear you guys keep putting out, as well as how valuable your approach to PR is in keeping Schiit "human" and approachable, and as such really hard to stay irked with for very long.

This whole thing also made me realize that I seem to have at least somewhat of a masochistic streak after all. So… thanks, I guess? ;p

Breaking:
I have just received notice that my Gungnir MB is ready to ship.

 

[bcowen]

I also have that ability when I'm expecting an audio delivery.

LOL! I can hear them loading the truck at the local terminal.

 

[hodgjy]

I have no idea why this is, because A-B'ing them I honestly can't hear much of a difference in how they render their output signal. Especially the upper mids and highs, which is what I feel causes the fatigue for me. Modius doesn't sound harsher to me, Bifrost 2 doesn't sound warmer. Maybe Bifrost 2 is just a tad more accurate in how it keeps both channels synchronized, and a slight shift in timing between the two, which might become more pronounced in its effect at higher frequencies, causes some weird sort of cognitive dissonance for my brain, making me feel like I needed a break after a little while. I have no clue.

So, yeah. That's why I have to chuckle every time someone says they hear an _immediate_ difference between two DACs. There definitely MUST be a difference, there's no doubt about it. But I just can't hear it, at least not right away. Try as I might.

You answered your own question. Quickly going back and forth between gear, either sighted or blind, is probably the worst way to try to hear differences. If any differences are initially perceived, they are most likely differences in volume anyway. Going back and forth relies on short term memory, which can be terrible. It also causes listening fatigue. The best way is to listen to a piece gear extensively. And some more. Then take a break, whether hours or a day, then try the new gear. Then listen extensively. And some more. Repeat. Your brain will tell you the truth.

 

[turtlerod]

Happy to say I scored a Bifrost II (2nd owner) today and initial impressions are "Wow!" Big step up for me from the Modi MB. Lots of listening to do.

I have a High End Denon surround preamp, in my main listening room, with 7 channels of Martin Logan speakers and a 18 inch Velodyne subwoofer. On my desk I have an imac and someone gave me a small external DAC and it sound better on my little desk top speakers. (yes, the first one was free, and I was hooked). So I found another better Chinese made thing and it was better again. I started reading up on DACs, and this is where I heard about Schiit. Next I bought a Jotunhiem with the multi bit DAC it sounded better than everything I tried to date. I liked the way the guys at Schiit talked about audio without all of the magic fufu-dust BS. So I bought my first two of eight Vidar amps. The Vidars sounded better than the Adcom and B&K amps that I was using. I read about the Yiggdrasil, so I ordred one. It arrived and I hooked it up and it sounded better than anything I had ever heard. The more I listened the more I could hear in my old FLAC files of my CDs. I could hear instruments that I never heard before. Some say you need to leave it on for 24 hours for it to stabilize, but I do not think so, I think that it takes at least 24 hours of listening to the Yiggdrasil before my ears and brain could appreciate the new levels of sound. I am an Electrical Engineer and when I read about the new USB upgrade I ordered it and was thinking I would have to call BS because USB should not make it should better, but it did. I looked at the PCB and I could see that extreme was taken in the board layout and two crystals were used instead of a noisy frequency synthesizer for the clocks. I believe the improvement were do to minimizing the number of frequencies and minimizing all of the clock jitter and preventing the clocks from coupling in to the DAC. I have a friend who is 77 years old and not an audio nut and his comment is that DAC was the biggest improvement you have ever made.

 

[OldRoadToad]

I would say it is best not to try and listen for differences in DACs. Instead, does your purchase make you feel any different. I listen to memories, not equipment. Does the music decoded by your new DAC please not just your ears but also your soul? Does what comes out make you think of ones and zeros or something more tangible? When you look at your DAC is it at least pleasing to the eye? It is all highly subjective I know but that is what a hobby is about. Does it please you or does it make you OCD? My Valhalla 2 makes me smile just sitting here. I do not look at it constantly even when listening to music. Neither do I think of it. It is quietly in the background bringing my life back to me. Without a DAC I would be listening to ones and zeros.

No thanks. I'd much rather hear Dion's "Donna The Prima Donna". Or George Harrison's "Awaiting On You All" or Joni Mitchell's "Free Man In Paris". If I want to listen to numbers then I tell Alexa to compute Pi to 300 or so digits. Really. Doing this makes me appreciate what a DAC does all the more. Sorry for ramblin'!

ORT

 

[macdonjh]

I would say it is best not to try and listen for differences in DACs. Instead, does your purchase make you feel any different. I listen to memories, not equipment. Does the music decoded by your new DAC please not just your ears but also your soul? Does what comes out make you think of ones and zeros or something more tangible? When you look at your DAC is it at least pleasing to the eye? It is all highly subjective I know but that is what a hobby is about. Does it please you or does it make you OCD? My Valhalla 2 makes me smile just sitting here. I do not look at it constantly even when listening to music. Neither do I think of it. It is quietly in the background bringing my life back to me. Without a DAC I would be listening to ones and zeros.

No thanks. I'd much rather hear Dion's "Donna The Prima Donna". Or George Harrison's "Awaiting On You All" or Joni Mitchell's "Free Man In Paris". If I want to listen to numbers then I tell Alexa to compute Pi to 300 or so digits. Really. Doing this makes me appreciate what a DAC does all the more. Sorry for ramblin'!

ORT

Can Alexa recite that to you in binary? It would be interesting to know what that would sound like through a Modi MB.