Schiit Happened: The Story of the World's Most Improbable Start-Up
May 20, 2015 at 4:21 PM Post #6,346 of 150,840
  What’s the one thing you dislike most about your current audio system?
 
 

I don't like the loud pop that comes through my headphones when turning off my various Schiit amps (ones with relays installed). I know it's supposedly safe, and we can always unplug our headphones before turning the amp off, but other amps I've owned over the years don't pop, so I know it's possible to make them. There's just something unsettling about hearing the pop come through a $500 or $1000 headphone.
 
May 20, 2015 at 4:32 PM Post #6,348 of 150,840
Portable amp or DAC/amp. Hmm. This is one I spent a lot of time on last year and ended up abandoning, mainly because I couldn’t answer Question #2 well enough—that is, how do we do it better or cheaper? This is something I could still get behind, though, if we figure out a way to make it unique enough. And we have some ideas…but those ideas point towards a relatively large device with very high power output and some unique takes on power supply and topology (discrete.) So we’ll keep playing. Which is where I’d ask…would you be interested in a larger-than-normal portable amp/DAC that provides truly stellar performance? I’d assume that iOS and Android connectivity (self-powered USB input) would be a must, but let me know what you think.

 
It depends a lot on how much bigger than normal we're talking about. What I'd like to see is something like the Fulla, but with battery power and iDevice compatible (no CCK). If it has to be, say, twice or three times the total volume of the Fulla, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. If it has to be much bigger than that, well, that's a bit of a challenge. 
 
Edit: Also, no, I most definitely do not want it to be bus-powered. I want battery power. In fact, I'd want it to be able to recharge my phone in a pinch, not drain it faster.
 

DAC upgrades. Mike already said that customers who’ve purchased our upgradable DACs will be rewarded with technology from Yggdrasil at some point in the future. As will new purchasers, of course. I can’t set a timetable for these product/upgrade introductions, nor can I set prices…but I can say that Yggy isn’t the last superburrito product you’ll see from us.
 

 

 
If I could turn my Bifrost Uber into an R2R DAC without breaking the bank, that would be AWESOME. Yes, please. I won't hold my breath for R2R in that form factor, of course, but upgrades here would be great.
 
Combined desktop DAC/amp. We still get asked about this all the time. We actually have tons of DAC/amps. They’re called Magni 2/Modi 2, Asgard 2/Bifrost, etc, etc. This separation of DAC and amp allow you to choose a combination that best fits your needs, to avoid the obsolescence of an embedded DAC inside an amp. If we come up with a solution that sidesteps the obsolescence problem and doesn’t have problems with digital noise in the analog amp section, sure, maybe there’s something there. What do you think?

 
Meh. They're fine separate. I don't see being interested in this.
 
Speaker amps. The hardest thing here is doing something meaningful…for a non-eye-bleeding price. Do we shoot above Emotiva (in price) with big, heavy, impressive boxes filled nifty circlotron designs and intelligent amp management? Or do we try to go head-to-head with this behemoth price-wise, but with smaller and more efficient amplifier designs (think small Class AB, not D, think fan)? Neither approach is particularly appealing. Above Emotiva, there’s about ten billion small manufacturers, all with their own spin…and some with very compelling products. At Emotiva, well, there’s Emotiva. Would something that doesn’t look big and impressive sell well against their iron? I don’t know. If you have thoughts, I’ll be glad to listen.

 
Dunno, you make really good points here. The bottom of Emotiva's line goes all the way down to $219, but then they don't have another stereo amp until $500 and the NAD D3020 also comes in around $500. If you could do something really meaningful in the sub-$500 world that'd be great. Heck, if you could make something for $100 that's better than the class-T amps that dominate that end of the spectrum, that'd be great, but I'm not sure you want to go there. If there was a $400 Schiit speaker amp, I'd probably buy it. Whether you want to be making such a thing, though, I'm not so sure.
 
Preamps. Okay, now we’re talking. I can see opportunities for remote-controlled, relay-switched stepped attenuator preamps—passive, active, tube, etc. There’s a shortage of good affordable products at this price point, and I think we can really make some cool stuff here. But do they fly without amps? Is the remote a BLE module and smartphone app, or old-skool proprietary RF? (No thanks on IR, not huge fans here.) Still a lot of stuff to work out, but there’s something here. What would you like to see?

 
 
Yes, this flies without an amp. A hundred times yes. I'd love to see a 5 or 6-in, 3-out single-ended preamp for less than $1k. Ideally one of the outs would be line-level that bypasses the volume control (this is to feed back to my computer—I'm still digitizing bootlegs on cassette from the 80s and 90s. Yes, I'm old), then the other two outs would go to speaker amp and headphone amp, respectively. I don't even need a remote here, but I suspect other people would want one. 
 
Of course, you also could pair this with an amp. A nice integrated amp would be excellent, but I'm OK with separates here.
 
Music server. Argh. Yeah, I know, some of you want a non-computer-style server that still takes USB drives and SD cards and Wifi audio and stuff. But do you know what you call that? A computer. No matter how you slice it, a modern music server is a computer. It may have a lot of computer-y stuff hidden, but it’s still either an embedded Linux or Windows box. This means software development, support, maintenance releases, software/firmware upgrades, etc. That’s a big undertaking to do it right. We’re currently glancing in the direction of these things, but that’s about it. Would it be better to simply do a super-uber-mega-USB-reformatter that “perfects” the USB packets and timing (which vary significantly from platform to platform, and even computer to computer) that could be used with any computer?

 
Not something I'd be interested in, no. 

 
Wireless audio. Bluetooth, nope. Not until it’s capable of uncompressed streaming. WiFi, hmm…but we’d need RFID to allow easy pairing…lots of questions here. Let’s just say we’re playing at the moment. But is it really so hard running some cables?

 
 
Seems like there's already stuff in this space, like Sonos and Apple AirPlay. I'm not really looking for anything here that I can't already get/don't already have.
 
What’s the one thing you dislike most about your current audio system?

 
 
I have more than one audio system, so the answer here depends on which one. In my HT system (which does its fair share or just music), the thing I dislike most have to do with limitations of the Apple TV and the Fire TV. I don't think there's anything you could do in that space for me, unless you want to get into multichannel A/V receivers, but even there I'm not unhappy with my Denon.
 
For my portable rig, the thing I dislike most is that I'm still on the iPad's DAC and the cabling for the LOD is dumb (using the Lightning to 30-pin adapter, ugh). Like I said above, what I'd want there is something I can just plug a regular Lightning to USB cable into that would be the DAC/amp. I could just buy an Oppo HA-2 for this, but I haven't been able to convince myself that this is a $300 problem yet. If Schiit came in here at $200 it'd be a done deal immediately.
 
For my study rig, which is both a speaker rig and a headphone rig, the one thing I dislike is controlling all of it. Right now the nerve center is a NAD receiver (which is silly, it's not like I ever use the tuner) which lacks the number of ins and out I'd have in an ideal system (though it's not bad, just don't ask about how I'm using Tape outs, really). Were there a nice Schiit preamp option I'd definitely consider it, and probably go buy an Emotiva amp for it (unless Schiit made one of those, too).
 
May 20, 2015 at 4:35 PM Post #6,349 of 150,840
Background: I'm not a big headphone user.  I use them while working or at the computer to avoid disturbing others, but nearly all of my serious listening is done on a traditional 2-channel system.
 
Jason, we met at RMAF last year.  It was the first day, and I told you that you didn't look as scary in person as you did online, and then complimented you for looking like an engineer.  I also won the Bifrost from the Head-Fi contest.  It has been an excellent addition to my system.
 
My thoughts on your post:
 
First, the Ragnarok eventually will need a remote, and I think you recognize this.  A BLE module could be interesting, if it had the option of a separate physical remote in addition to using a smartphone.  I would pay extra for the physical remote without batting an eye.  The physical remote would only need volume and mute controls.  Getting up to change inputs isn't that big a deal.  Getting up to adjust volume for every song is.  
 
I love the idea of a cost-effective balanced preamp using the same tech that is present in the Ragnarok.  The relay-switched stepped attenuator really intrigues me.  I don't have much of an opinion on the use of tubes vs. solid state for the preamp.  Both can be excellent.  Personally, I think a balance control would be useful, but not necessary.  
 
I agree that doing a preamp requires a separate matching amplifier.  A lot of people, myself included, like things to have a matching physical appearance and be from the same brand.  I would aim more toward the big, heavy, impressive boxes.  I personally would really love the idea of a hybrid or tube amplifier as an option.  I don't think it would be your biggest seller, but I also think that you might be surprised.
 
I don't have any grounds for this next statement other than my own gut feeling, but I'm not sure you even need to concern yourself what Emotiva is doing.  It feels like people end up with Emotiva because of the value proposition, and not as a result of any affinity toward the company or their products.  A high-quality, US-built alternative (even if marginally more expensive) could potentially sell very well simply by existing.  I can't even think of a low-cost balanced amplifier other than Emotiva.  Does anyone else even do this?
 
What do I dislike most about my current audio system?  My current system has extremely sensitive speakers.  The volume control gets to 1/4 and the sound is painfully loud.  But I'm switching to less efficient speakers soon, so buying a different preamp would be a waste right now.  But since the Ragnarok has a gain switch, you've already effectively dealt with this complaint.
 
May 20, 2015 at 4:41 PM Post #6,350 of 150,840
I'd be using my Valhalla as a line stage, if it didn't pass DC offset and pop when warming up, thus making the protection circuitry in my amplifiers kick in. C'mon, Jay!
How's about a TUBED phono stage, with or without a tubed line stage, either in the same box, or separates? My guess is if you made them small and affordable along the lines of your current headphone amps like the Valhalla, you'd be surprised at the response. 
 
May 20, 2015 at 4:48 PM Post #6,351 of 150,840
  I'd be using my Valhalla as a line stage, if it didn't pass DC offset and pop when warming up, thus making the protection circuitry in my amplifiers kick in. C'mon, Jay!
How's about a TUBED phono stage, with or without a tubed line stage, either in the same box, or separates? My guess is if you made them small and affordable along the lines of your current headphone amps like the Valhalla, you'd be surprised at the response. 

Interestingly, when I had the Valhalla for a short period, it never made a popping noise, even though I knew it was bleeding DC. I don't know enough about topology or offset, but I have owned enough amps and preamps that don't pop or blow up the power amp to know it's possible to design such a device. 
 
May 20, 2015 at 4:49 PM Post #6,352 of 150,840
A volume controlled DAC with Yggy's (trickled down) tech in a Gungnir chassis. Would be awesome for power monitors or to drive power amps. You already got all the elements (maybe not the space in the aforementioned chassis).
 
Wouldn't even require a remote for near field applications.
 
May 20, 2015 at 4:52 PM Post #6,353 of 150,840
  1. DAC upgrades. Mike already said that customers who’ve purchased our upgradable DACs will be rewarded with technology from Yggdrasil at some point in the future. As will new purchasers, of course. I can’t set a timetable for these product/upgrade introductions, nor can I set prices…but I can say that Yggy isn’t the last superburrito product you’ll see from us.
 

 
It has been confirmed!!! Good reason for me to not sell my Bifrost Uber and wait it out for awhile. If it sounds as good as my Progeny which is a trickle down Gen VA then I will probably sell the Progeny cause it takes up all my space on my desk. Usually what sounds the best is never very convenient or portable..
 
May 20, 2015 at 4:59 PM Post #6,354 of 150,840
If you are looking for something completely different, why don't you take a look into the test & measurement space, and make an audio measurement/analyzer device. It could have an ultra-pure sine source, and measurements and such. Basically, we have all kinds of audio gear, and we like to compare them against each other to see what sounds the best. This device would help use take some measurements, instead of just relying on just how we think it sounds. Also, it could be a help with all us amateur amp builders, something that can help measure our designs. Something better than just our sound cards. Basically, something like what Audio Precision makes, just a bit smaller scale, and a lot less expensive.
 
May 20, 2015 at 5:05 PM Post #6,355 of 150,840
What’s the one thing you dislike most about your current audio system?  
Yes, dislike.
 
If you have a few moments, indulge me. I’d appreciate it!

 
Would you guys be willing to do a CD player or transport? Or a CD/DVD/SACD player or transport, to generalize?
 
If you guys made a compact, inexpensive optical disc player or transport I'd be all over that. There aren't many companies who make that sort of thing—Parasound has the ZCD and Pro-Ject has the CD Box S but those are CD-only players. It'd be nice to have an all-in-one, inexpensive, & physically-compact disc player or transport that can play all the major optical disc formats (CD-Audio, DVD-A, SACD) and sound really good with a premium DAC inside (like a Sabre or something else comparable).
 
The cheapest multi-format premium-DAC disc players currently in the market are the ones made by Oppo but I don't want to spend that much. It'd be awesome if there was something cheaper than $1K!
 
I don't like that my system can't play all the formats that I own, as I happen to have a few SACDs that I've never heard the SACD layer on.
 
And on a less-serious note, what about an integrated, pre-amp, or power amp for full-size floorstanding speakers? You didn't say you wouldn't make those.
tongue.gif
 
 
May 20, 2015 at 5:10 PM Post #6,356 of 150,840
   
Would you guys be willing to do a CD player or transport? Or a CD/DVD/SACD player or transport, to generalize?
 
If you guys made a compact, inexpensive optical disc player or transport I'd be all over that. There aren't many companies who make that sort of thing—Parasound has the ZCD and Pro-Ject has the CD Box S but those are CD-only players. It'd be nice to have an all-in-one, inexpensive, & physically-compact disc player or transport that can play all the major optical disc formats (CD-Audio, DVD-A, SACD) and sound really good with a premium DAC inside (like a Sabre or something).
 
The cheapest multi-format premium-DAC disc players currently in the market are the ones made by Oppo but I don't want to spend that much. It'd be awesome if there was something cheaper than $1K!


It honestly isn't a bad idea. Seeing the shortage of decent physical media players out there it seems reasonable.
 
If you look on eBay you will see an abundance of bids for vintage CD players from the 80s and 90s. To say that the market isn't feasible or will eventually die out is just dumb. The bid wars on eBay speak louder than words..
 
May 20, 2015 at 5:39 PM Post #6,357 of 150,840
I too would love something that would sit between a nas and an amp. I've recently been looking at networked cd players to as a solution but a decent networked audio player / dac would be perfect (don't mind if the cd transport isn't part of the product). Ideally something with other inputs as well as the RJ45, like usb / toslink.

Also a portable dac/amp, but I can see that you'd consider Thi as saturated market.
 
May 20, 2015 at 6:04 PM Post #6,359 of 150,840
I'd like a hardware based crossfeed that was completely neutral. I.e. not the Sch**t that is out there right now for cheap, but a true hardware based, amazing sounding crossfeed module even if it cost quite a bit to implement.
 
May 20, 2015 at 6:58 PM Post #6,360 of 150,840
 
What’s the one thing you dislike most about your current audio system?

The thing I dislike most about my audio system is that I can't take it everywhere. I have my desktop setup but if I want to listen to good quality music in bed or at work I need a second or third setup.
 
So yes, I would be very interested in a
larger-than-normal portable amp/DAC that provides truly stellar performance

 
USB for charging and connecting to the phone would be a plus (can be two different cables but please no wall wart for a portable amp/DAC). Make it less expensive than the Bifrost/Asgard combo (but that depends on the performance).
 

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