[ev666il]

As always, thanks for reading my blather.

It is I who thank you. This was a fantastic read!

 

[Mr Rick]

Well, well. I'm not crazy after all.

 

[Alexnova]

Subjectivists: "Jason is totally deaf!"

 

[Odin412]

You know who wins? Sane people. People who don't want to go crazy nervosa nuts about every little thing.

Amen to that. Less nervosa, more fun!

 

[Varejao17]

Subjectivists: "Jason is totally deaf!"

LOL - too funny!

ed

 

[Alexnova]

even if they start trotting out the old "well, maybe the source wasn't good enough/headphones weren't good enough" arguments.

You know what Jason that might not be a bad idea actually. What if you still can't discern any notable differences between the amps if you have them hooked up to a Yggdrasil? Then for these amps, source don't matter, unless you want that Multibit sound.

 

[Brubacca]

Jason,

We still looking at January Gumby Unison update?

 

[Mike-WI]

Hey all,

I thought I'd give you a quick report from the blind listening last night. A more full report will come from Brian at Audio-Head probably within a few days, and I'm sure I'll be doing a chapter on blind listening in the future, because it's insanely interesting.

First, let's go through the setup/blinding/etc:

1. There were three amps: Magni Heresy, Magni 3+, and Vali 2. Yes, we put Vali 2 at all listening stations.
2. There were three stations, one with the HD6XX, one with (I believe) the Hifiman HE400i, and one with the Dan Clark Audio Ether 2s.
3. Each trio of amps was fed by the same Modi 3 via y-cables.
4. The output of each trio was routed through a commercial three-position XLR switch, with appropriate TRS adapters.
5. Output of each trio was level-matched to 0.02dB with an Avermetrics AverLab using the actual headphone load at the station (yes, loaded with the headphone, not a resistor).
6. Volume was fixed for each station to preserve the level-matching. Headphones remained at each station.
7. Listeners could switch between three amps with a front-panel knob on the switcher, and they were free to pick whatever music they wanted to listen to via Roon (Quobuz, Tidal, and our internal library).

Now, a few notes:

1. Level matching was insanely good, and the switch was very nice, no glitching when switching between amps.
2. Vali 2 has about 1000x the distortion of Magni Heresy, and for many transducers, the distortion may be in excess of transducer distortion.
3. Listeners could listen as long as they wanted, and were only asked for a preference, or, if they wanted, they could try to pick the amps.

I'll save the tabulated results for Brian, but I'll let you know my impressions.

When I first sat down at the HD6XX station, I put on the headphones, which were playing some music I wasn't familiar with, and twisted the knob. It sounded like nothing happened. I mean, nothing. Nada. Zip. I called David over and said, "Are you messing with us, is this actually switching?"

He laughed and said, "Yes, they are," and pulled one of the cables out of the switchbox to demonstrate it was active.

I must have looked a little worried, because David said, "Try with the Ether 2s, it might be easier."

Nah. I wasn't gonna do that. Not yet. So I picked some music I was more familiar with and went through the amps again. This time, I could pick up some small differences between the amps. And man oh man, we're talking SMALL. On a short casual listen, I could totally see most people saying, "Nope, no difference between these, none at all." On more extended listening, though, there were differences, but the magnitude of the differences was tiny. Which, to me, was a surprise, I figured I could pick the Vali 2 at least. But all three amps were very, very similar. Yes. Even the one with 1000x more distortion. See the APx555 reports on our site for Vali 2, it ain't a measurements darling.

I spent a few more minutes on it, and tried to pick the amps by the characteristics I imagined they might have. Vali 2 should be smoother/mellower/etc. Heresy, in earlier sighted listening, seemed very clean, but maybe lacking in detail.

I called David over. "I think I got it," I said, and gave him my guess at the amps.

He laughed. "100% totally wrong!"

Well, that was disappointing.

I went back outside the listening room, talked to people for a bit, then tried the Ether 2 station. This one, as David said, was easier to tell the difference on. But again, these are tiny and slight differences. Minuscule, really, I spent about 10 minutes at that station, listening to familiar music, and I was ready to make my guess.

This time, David was impressed. "Now that's 100% right!"

And that was it. Sorry, nope, not gonna do the HiFiMan station. Not after getting one 100% right. Time to take the win and leave. So I didn't press on.

Cowardly? Maybe. But let me tell you, the differences between these amps are very small, especially when doing fast switching and short listening. Not familiar with the music? Pretty much no chance of telling for me. No voices? That made it much much harder for me. Not really sitting and concentrating on the differences? Probably not gonna get that either. Again, we're talking tiny differences here, not night-and-day stuff, even with an amp thrown in with 1000x the distortion.

So is this a win for the objectivists or subjectivists?

I'd say neither. Objectivists would reject Vali 2 immediately based on measurements, but in this format, it was insanely hard to tell the difference. Furthermore, I know there was no consensus on the "best" amp in the group, though I'll leave Brian to elaborate on that. Subjectivists lose too, because blind listening reveals just how tiny the differences are in three very different amplifiers, even if they start trotting out the old "well, maybe the source wasn't good enough/headphones weren't good enough" arguments.

You know who wins? Sane people. People who don't want to go crazy nervosa nuts about every little thing. The bottom line is that we had three very similar amps in this blind test, and I'd personally be happy with any one of them for long-term listening. Would my happiness change as, over time, the tiny differences integrated into something I found grating? Maybe. But it comes back to what we've always said: choose the transducer first, then worry about everything else.

One thing's for sure: we're going to continue this testing. We want to have a "blind box" we can send around to shows, and I'd like to try again with something crazy, like Modi 3/Magni 3 Heresy vs Yggdrasil and Ragnarok 2. Maybe with Lyr3/Bifrost 2 in the middle? Just to see about this "scale" thing.

As always, thanks for reading my blather. With any luck, I'll have a Jotunheim R chapter for you next week.

It would be great if you could set this up at AXPONA 2020.
The headphones area seems to noisey to me. The individual rooms (like the Schiit/Salk room) are quieter, but may be hard to do that demo with enough space for the other things.

 

[Jason Stoddard]

Subjectivists: "Jason is totally deaf!"

That is entirely possible. It's also why we have a number of trusted listeners who hear things before they go out. I know some of them hear things I don't.

Jason,

We still looking at January Gumby Unison update?

Yep, just waiting for production, as usual.

 

[Alexnova]

That is entirely possible. It's also why we have a number of trusted listeners who hear things before they go out. I know some of them hear things I don't.

Do they communicate with bats?

 

[438555]

Yep, just waiting for production, as usual.

Cool. My Gen5 USB input broke over the Holidays, and I'd rather just send it once and get firmware and USB updated, even if that's not covered under warranty. I've got my Eitr to keep the Gumby functional until then.

 

[Old Deaf Donkey]

My brain knows I don't need analog VU meters in my listening nook... On anything. However,.... If it was, perhaps sold by a Schiit Associate? ... ... ...
I looked behind my DIY rack, and saw the following... Yep. Yep. Yep...

Not shown: on the floor, under the white cable tubes, is a hard-working Cthulhu floor wart chugging away.

Oy vey, that Ikea wine rack module, what?

 

[ScubaMan2017]

Oy vey, that Ikea wine rack module, what?

...I dropped by my local Eye-Key-Yah and picked up their latest version of the open-back Billy bookshelf... the Kallax shelf unit, and a couple of inserts. I was able to watch a Lamborgini ram itself into a fire-zone with enraged Canadians spewing abuse at them. I hustled away before the odd popping noises followed (?!) Fun times.

 

[joe]

...I dropped by my local Eye-Key-Yah and picked up their latest version of the open-back Billy bookshelf... the Kallax shelf unit, and a couple of inserts. I was able to watch a Lamborgini ram itself into a fire-zone with enraged Canadians spewing abuse at them. I hustled away before the odd popping noises followed (?!) Fun times.

Pics or it didn't happen.

 

[Brubacca]

Just read that Neal Peart (Rush) passed away on Tuesday.

Thank You for getting me through high school and getting me to love music.