[Paladin79]

70% is about the % I would have guessed. Maybe one foot firmly planted as an educated guess, and one foot firmly planted as a safe guess, not too high and not too low.
And one foot firmly planted in I have no feakin' idea !

The third I don't really know choice: I can't remember where I got that. But the claim is that forcing people to choose between only two options will include weakly felt 'choices,' watering down the results.

This was more of a friendly competition and those with the highest number of correct answers then subjected ourselves to a final test. There were ten of us as I recall and we each put up $100 in a winner take all test. The four amps that were hardest to distinguish in the first test were used, two solid state, two tube amps. They were hooked up to switch boxes in a blind test and any of the amps could be switched on in any sequence. You could have two solid state amps in a row or the same solid state amp switched on three times in a row for a total of 100 samplings. I came in fourth in the first sampling, but with money at stake I did better and paid for a new amp with my winnings. This was another reason you did not pick "I do not know", the highest score won. There was some guess work involved I suppose and my final score was in the mid eighties so I may have guessed right a few times.

To most of my friends it is not enough to say I believe I hear this or think I hear that and we have had other friendly competitions as a group but this was simple to set up and the cash does not generally get this high. My worst experience was trying to distinguish between flac file rates, starting at 44.1. Some of the guys involved work with digital recording on a regular basis or as sound engineers, my scores were abysmal in comparison.

We do not meet as often as we once did and I am generally involved if they want to examine different cable or connectors. When I say I have never come across anyone who could say hear a difference between connectors, it is because we tried it lol. As we will look at cable cooking and a few other offerings.

None of my friends have shown @bcowen’s expertise with distinguishing between tubes and he has a pretty good idea of the effort I put into that test. I sent some of the same tubes on to Schiit but it is a tricky test that can best be done with a headphone amp IMHO.

 

[KoshNaranek]

My Dad collected antique cars and of course read about them a lot. Thirty years ago he sent me an article by a guy who was thrilled to have finally figured out how the Lucas fuel injection systems worked. Maybe it was published in Car and Driver, or maybe something more like Hemming's Motor News (I think they had a few articles, along with gobs of cars for sale), but I guess that isn't the main point. I saved the article but after ten moves I haven't a clue where it is. Anyway, this guy wrote a thousand-word essay about his experiences; in the end he concluded that the Lucas fuel-injection systems were powered by smoke. Once you let the smoke out it didn't matter what you'd try, they would no longer work.

http://www3.telus.net/bc_triumph_registry/smoke.htm

 

[wout31]

This is what I think speaker manufacturers should communicate on the website and in the brochure.

• Frequency response. But only with ALL the relevant information.

Measured at standard distance, 1 meter on axis (no close up and separate for each driver with the best numbers used) and in a normal (not an anechoic) room.
The graph should hold the number for the amount of smoothing that was applied with a max 1/6 octave
A graph with ERB (variable) smoothing could also be presented to give an idea about how the frequency response is interpreted by our hearing.

• Impedance variation. Numbers like 5 - 20 ohm. Preferably supported by a graph. So you know at what point impedance is high and low
• Distortion numbers (measured at 1 meter at 100 dB in room) in steps.

Suggestion:
Step 1: below 100 Hz (stating what is the low band, so 50-100Hz or 30-100Hz)
Step 2: 100 Hz to 1 kHz
Step 3: Above 1 kHz
Any steps in conjunction with filter frequencies would be nice, or steps that line up with the different drivers used.

• Phase behaviour (preferably in the same graph as the frequency response)
• Pulse and step response graph in a 5 ms window
• Sensitivity measured at 1 meter (not at 10 and calculated back) and at a given frequency (1 kHz standard).

I know that as a potential buyer you would have to dig into this stuff to determine what is good, better, the best.
But reading and using the blah blah numbers presented normally and use them as some sort of proof how good the speakers are only contributes to the massive amount of misinformation in the audio world.
Probably will never happen, but you can't blame someone for hoping.

 

[Ableza]

I put a lot of things on a hot dog, including ketchup, and I'm proud of it and I refuse to be intimidated or embarrassed!

Just don't set foot outside Philadelphia and you'll be ok.

 

[yonson]

This is what I think speaker manufacturers should communicate on the website and in the brochure.

• Frequency response. But only with ALL the relevant information.

Measured at standard distance, 1 meter on axis (no close up and separate for each driver with the best numbers used) and in a normal (not an anechoic) room.
The graph should hold the number for the amount of smoothing that was applied with a max 1/6 octave
A graph with ERB (variable) smoothing could also be presented to give an idea about how the frequency response is interpreted by our hearing.

• Impedance variation. Numbers like 5 - 20 ohm. Preferably supported by a graph. So you know at what point impedance is high and low
• Distortion numbers (measured at 1 meter at 100 dB in room) in steps.

Suggestion:
Step 1: below 100 Hz (stating what is the low band, so 50-100Hz or 30-100Hz)
Step 2: 100 Hz to 1 kHz
Step 3: Above 1 kHz
Any steps in conjunction with filter frequencies would be nice, or steps that line up with the different drivers used.

• Phase behaviour (preferably in the same graph as the frequency response)
• Pulse and step response graph in a 5 ms window
• Sensitivity measured at 1 meter (not at 10 and calculated back) and at a given frequency (1 kHz standard).

I know that as a potential buyer you would have to dig into this stuff to determine what is good, better, the best.
But reading and using the blah blah numbers presented normally and use them as some sort of proof how good the speakers are only contributes to the massive amount of misinformation in the audio world.
Probably will never happen, but you can't blame someone for hoping.

I agree with this, however the biggest issue I can see with it is, how would you define a "normal" room?

 

[yonson]

LOL, yeah, we've been playing with something recently that sounds really good balanced, but super ass-y single-ended, and have tried a bunch of tricks to de-ass it, including changing the power supply significantly, and it's still pretty ass-y. That one probably won't make it out the door. Unless we find the ass.

Jason, any updates on "De-ass-ifying" this?

 

[Pietro Cozzi Tinin]

Donkeys are sometimes hard to find.

 

[valiant66]

Schiit made that statement in regards to DACs. Indeed, Mike Moffat when discussing Yggdrasil stated that if he could leave off the power switch he would.

My Museatex DAC does not have a power switch.
.

 

[bcowen]

Donkeys are sometimes hard to find.

Do asses count? I know where a bunch of those are.

 

[valiant66]

I'll add that the Lucas electrical system on my Trident T160 was never a problem, although the engine's inability to retain oil was.

I had a breakdown in Comox, BC, on my '76 Triumph T140V in the 1980's that resulted in getting a whole new wiring harness (bike was less than 10 yo at the time).

The mechanic who did it tied off one hot wire instead of terminating it properly.

8 years later I brushed up against the wire while riding and shorted it out, setting my bike on fire ( just the harness, fortunately, although seeing flames coming from beneath the tank is quite disconcerting...). So I'm up to two sets of replacement harnesses at this point.

I've burnt out 2 Boyers, a set of handlebar switches, and numerous other things I have expunged from memory.

Needless to say, in my experience Triumph electrics are a nightmare, whether or not they're Lucas.

I still have the (non-running) bike, which I think says even more about my questionable sanity than Lucas' questionable quality...
.

 

[bcowen]

None of my friends have shown @bcowen’s expertise with distinguishing between tubes and he has a pretty good idea of the effort I put into that test.

Yeah, just putting the 4 extensions together as my contribution took me forever, and I only did part of the construction on them. I can't even imagine the amount of time you spent putting all the test tubes together, but I was certainly impressed with your willingness to do it...and all on your own dime no less.

 

[apollogreed]

@dieslemat I think my endgame for the SR1A will be the JotunheimR (I'll purchase as soon as it is available) and the Freya+ as preamp (just waiting on the black version ). So excited for this to be on my desk! Cheers and thank you for your write up, it was a good read!

Might be a noobish question, but why are you and @dieslemat using a preamp ( Freya + ) when Jotunheim R has a volume pot on it already. Is there that much of a SQ increase when bypassing the volume in the Jot R and using another preamp to attenuate the signal? I can see why @Torq bypasses the volume pot as his DAC has a volume control but I'm a bit confused because I always thought the less stuff in your chain the better.

 

[Paladin79]

Yeah, just putting the 4 extensions together as my contribution took me forever, and I only did part of the construction on them. I can't even imagine the amount of time you spent putting all the test tubes together, but I was certainly impressed with your willingness to do it...and all on your own dime no less.

Since my mini rack is not as nice looking as yours, I figured I would make up for it with bling:

Well @Darthpool will like it anyway, he likes purple.
That is a 1963 Melz 1578 in the Lyr 3, for those of you who know tubes. Bass and mids are to die for.

 

[Old Deaf Donkey]

Donkeys are sometimes hard to find.

indeed.

 

[DelsFan]

Might be a noobish question, but why are you and @dieslemat using a preamp ( Freya + ) when Jotunheim R has a volume pot on it already. Is there that much of a SQ increase when bypassing the volume in the Jot R and using another preamp to attenuate the signal. I can see why @Torq bypasses the volume pot as his DAC has a volume control but I'm a bit confused because I always thought the less stuff in your chain the better.

I think the answer can be found in the movie, Shakespeare in Love: "It's a mystery."

Someone else can give you the real reason a pre-amp improves the sound in most cases. However, my CD player has an analog fixed output and analog variable out (so it has a DAC built in) and I tried listening plugging it in directly to my Quad amplifier (and then, Thiel 2.0 speakers). It worked just fine - but when I finally got around to un-boxing my preamp (we'd returned from overseas) and putting it in the chain, the sound noticeably improved. I assume this has something to do with a pre-amp "bringing up the signal" to a point where an amplifier is happier dealing with it, but my Civil Engineering Degree didn't prepare me for understanding many of the technical intricacies of this hobby.
For my/our purposes, one can certainly "tailor" the sound of a DAC and amplifier to one's liking by inserting the (in my case, it would almost always be tube-based) preamplifier that minimizes flaws in other parts of one's system. With super-detailed headphones like the Raals or (to some people's ears) the SR-009 electrostatics, a preamplifier (or headphone amplifier with a preamp section - in "big system" terms, this would be an integrated amplifier) can soften the edges or add a bit of engagement to the end product.
At some point the disadvantage of adding another piece of equipment isn't only its cost, but if you aren't sensible (as many of us are not) the cost of another power cord, interconnect, and maybe vibration control, can easily add another thousand - or three - in addition to the cost of the added piece of equipment.

I think anyone who has listened with only an amplifier and then tried/added a preamp will tell you, their system sounded better with the preamp in the system.