leonthebumme
100+ Head-Fier
Speaking of more fun news, wondered if there are any updates you can share on Unison USB? Any ballpark idea of when and how we'll see it?
Schiit Happened: The Story of the World's Most Improbable Start-Up
- Thread starter Jason Stoddard
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- schiit audio schiit-audio
wout31
500+ Head-Fier
RCBinTN
Headphoneus Supremus
What a great back-and-forth to share ideas about helping Jason and Schiit Audio. Well done, mates!
My 2-cents, we've had issues with both UPS and FedEx, drivers don't care, packages often damaged and/or wet including orders from Schiit Audio.
One of the first things we did on moving to TN, 12-years ago, was to get to know our USPS deliverer personally.
She's great and we tip her at the end of each year.
So great USPS service ... except when she is on vacation.
Her back-ups can't find our house and they deliver to the wrong address.
I think the APO delivery via USPS is the best argument for keeping it as an option.
My 2-cents, we've had issues with both UPS and FedEx, drivers don't care, packages often damaged and/or wet including orders from Schiit Audio.
One of the first things we did on moving to TN, 12-years ago, was to get to know our USPS deliverer personally.
She's great and we tip her at the end of each year.
So great USPS service ... except when she is on vacation.
Her back-ups can't find our house and they deliver to the wrong address.
I think the APO delivery via USPS is the best argument for keeping it as an option.
Brubacca
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Wasn't the Schiitr meet last night? Ragnarok thunderdome?
jmimac351
100+ Head-Fier
Funny... my parents are long retired and the seriousness of your tone is palpable. After careful observation of my parents, there are 4 things you don't phock with regarding Retired Folks:
- Dr Appointments
- Medications
- Cable News access
GearMe
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Choice is always good! That said, am thinking I fall in line with Garbulky's reasoning...have been looking at the Saga on the Schiit site for $299 + $17.84 shipping and this discussion prompted me to check Amazon; lo and behold there was a $50 coupon that was being offered!
The result was...a $38 savings with same day delivery -- enough to entice me to pull the trigger and the Saga's in my possession as I type this.
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I'd like to know who is offering those coupons. Is it Schiit itself? If so, what happened to no sales?Choice is always good! That said, am thinking I fall in line with Garbulky's reasoning...have been looking at the Saga on the Schiit site for $299 + $17.84 shipping and this discussion prompted me to check Amazon; lo and behold there was a $50 coupon that was being offered!
The result was...a $38 savings with same day delivery -- enough to entice me to pull the trigger and the Saga's in my possession as I type this.
No sales & no free shipping stabilizes the value of a new item. Sales, discounts, coupons mean you have reason to wait and scheme and hunt for deals, and it lowers the resale value as well.
So I prefer companies with a stable price on their gear.
Robert Padgett
500+ Head-Fier
Amazon lets you earn coupons. They are always giving you credit for loyalty to their Machine, $50 coupon may have cost several hundreds of dollars to "earn". This is a prime example of an anecdotal incident which saved $20?
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Um, we pay over $100/year for amazon's "free" 2-day shipping. I'm willing to do that because I order multiple times per month from them and it includes bonuses. Seems unlikely that I'd ever want to do it for a niche retailer I might purchase from once or twice a year, if that.
Also keep in mind that amazon is mostly concerned with expanding market share and has a wildly profitable web services business (AWS) which subsidizes their ability to run very thin margins on retail.
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Interesting. I'm a rather loyal Amazon customer, but all I've seen are little coupons that amount to a few bucks here and there. $50 is surprisingly generous.
Edit: I stand corrected. $75 off for the Jotunheim!
For the Saga the savings would amount to more than $20 for me. I'd save at least $15.48 on shipping, I'd pay a little less sales tax due to the lower price, and I would get 5% cash back by using my Amazon Prime credit card instead 3% with my BoA Cash Rewards card (because buying from schiit.com would be an online purchase).
Guess it's worth checking the Amazon price before ordering direct after all.
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garbulky
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True Amazon is very different from Schiit. Schiit is much more niche. However keep in mind Amazon's subscription isn't just free 2 day shipping (one day for me). It gives you access to 4k video streams and a whole bunch of video as well as music streaming for echo dots and a photo upload drive. It also allows for a 5% off amazon purchases when you get a prime rewards card with competitive rates. Plus a discount at whole foods and access to amazon lockers for secure package delivery. All useful things.
GearMe
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Yep!
earnmyturns
Headphoneus Supremus
Deftly exploiting a psychological "bug," explained by behavioral economists with the notion of hyperbolic discounting, that also seems involved in addiction, eating too much crappy but instantly rewarding foods, and the like. For a challenging but ultimately very rewarding read on the core reason we get fooled by Prime, nothing I know beats George Ainslie's Breakdown of Will.
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ashirin
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Tube Rolling Saga Part 2:
Genalex Gold Lion E88CC vs stock GE 6BZ7 tube in Vali 2
You can find the previous entries here:
Part 0
Part 1
Conclusions
I have to say, I’m honestly surprised by the results. I was afraid I wouldn’t hear consistent differences in the character of each tube, or that the differences would be subtle, but this ended up being far from the case.
To sum up, the Genalex consistently provided a deeper and more open soundstage, presented instruments with greater texture and a heftier tone, and made everything feel more real. Background sounds were more present and better incorporated into the tracks. Bass sounded deeper and had greater definition. Really, it was no contest. There wasn’t a single aspect in which I felt the GE did a better job. Every song sounded noticeably better on the Genalex.
So ya, I’d say the money on the Genalex was definitely well spent. If you want to try a current production tube, I say go for it. I got mine from vivatubes.com for under $38 shipped, but you can find them many places.
I do want to note that none of this means the GE is a bad tube. I’ve listened to the Vali a bunch of times before with that tube and thought the amp sounded great. But there’s no getting around the consistent improvements I heard with the Genalex.
I have to say, this was a fun first foray into tube rolling. I can’t wait to try out the 6SN7 tubes I got in my Saga and see what differences they make. I’m not expecting the results to be as one-sided, but I’ll just have to listen.
As always, thanks for reading.
Genalex Gold Lion E88CC vs stock GE 6BZ7 tube in Vali 2
You can find the previous entries here:
Part 0
Part 1
Background:
A couple of the 6SN7 tubes I ordered arrived today, and man did I want to immediately throw those into Saga and hear what they sound like. But I decided to exhibit some restraint and do the Vali tube rolling experiment while the experience from the comparison between Vali and Magni was still fresh in my head.
To start, I took my own advice and moved my setup to a more comfortable location. I decided to stick with The Sennheiser HD6XX for all my listening. The rest of the setup is the same: Vali 2 being fed by a first generation Modi and Wyrd with music coming from my phone via Tidal lossless (with a few “master” quality tracks).
For testing, I would listen to a song all the way through with one tube while taking notes on things that stood out to me. Then I would switch to the other tube and listen again and writing down comparative observations. Then I would go to the next song with the same tube left in, and repeat the process. So each song was played through each tube once, with the tubes alternating going first or second. I kept the volume knob in the same position between tube changes. After each song, I turned off and unplugged the amp, then used a microfiber cloth to pull out the tube, both to avoid burning myself and to avoid getting my hand grease on the tubes. I thought it might be difficult but ultimately it wasn’t all that bad. Once I got used to taking the tubes in and out the process went pretty smoothly.
It’s still impossible to make back and fourth comparisons to a specific part of a song as I did in Part 1, but that didn’t end up making it difficult to experience the differences between the tubes. So without further ado, here are my impressions.
A couple of the 6SN7 tubes I ordered arrived today, and man did I want to immediately throw those into Saga and hear what they sound like. But I decided to exhibit some restraint and do the Vali tube rolling experiment while the experience from the comparison between Vali and Magni was still fresh in my head.
To start, I took my own advice and moved my setup to a more comfortable location. I decided to stick with The Sennheiser HD6XX for all my listening. The rest of the setup is the same: Vali 2 being fed by a first generation Modi and Wyrd with music coming from my phone via Tidal lossless (with a few “master” quality tracks).
For testing, I would listen to a song all the way through with one tube while taking notes on things that stood out to me. Then I would switch to the other tube and listen again and writing down comparative observations. Then I would go to the next song with the same tube left in, and repeat the process. So each song was played through each tube once, with the tubes alternating going first or second. I kept the volume knob in the same position between tube changes. After each song, I turned off and unplugged the amp, then used a microfiber cloth to pull out the tube, both to avoid burning myself and to avoid getting my hand grease on the tubes. I thought it might be difficult but ultimately it wasn’t all that bad. Once I got used to taking the tubes in and out the process went pretty smoothly.
It’s still impossible to make back and fourth comparisons to a specific part of a song as I did in Part 1, but that didn’t end up making it difficult to experience the differences between the tubes. So without further ado, here are my impressions.
Impressions:
First, a quick visual analysis: Both tubes seem “new” despite the GE being NOS, which is to say it’s perfectly clean inside. Up against a flashlight, the internal structures of the Genalex seems more complex than the GE. Another difference is that as soon as the amp is powered on with the GE tube, it lights up right away and is brighter than the Genalex. I’m also not a huge fan of the gold lion printed on the glass of the Genalex. Both have similar chrome tops. So, not that it matters, but looks slightly favor the GE. The gold pins on the Genalex are a nice touch, however.
Last night I had a chance to go to the SchiitrMeet where I quickly plugged some MrSpeakers Ethers into a Gungnir/Mjolnir stack to test out the Florence tracks that had underwhelmed me the night before. In short, they seemed up to stuff. So ya, maybe it’s not fair to compare $200 headphones with a $100 amp to $1500 speakers and more than $1000 worth of electronics (with dual subwoofers no less). But, in that spirit, I decided to start with some Florence and the Machine for my listening sessions again.
I picked “Big God” because I love that song and I didn’t listen to it in Part 1. Starting with the Genalex, I immediately thought it sounded pretty good. The bass went deep, had good definition and impact. Florence’s voice was clear and had good dimensionality. Switching to the GE, there were several changes. Within the first minute of the song, I thought that the soundstage was shallower. At around the 1 min mark, there is some echo in Florence’s voice that on the Genalex sounded like the echo in a room. On the GE, it sounded more like an echo affect that was flipped on digitally (which to be fair, is probably the case). At around 2:20 I thought the bass sounded stronger on the Genalex, and at 2:40 the music felt more lush. Being my first song, I decided to listen again on both tubes, and more or less confirmed these differences.
On to the the next song, the only repeat from Part 1, “100 Years”. GE was up first this time. I thought that at 0:45, the bass was a little lighter than I’m used too, though at 2:30 it hit harder. I felt that the song sounded a little thin overall, or that the soundstage wasn’t deep. Switching over the the Genalex pretty much fixed everything. Bass early on was better, and later in the song it was even more impactful and had more definition. The soundstage throughout also had more depth.
Honestly, I was already surprised by how big of a difference I was hearing, so I wanted to shake up the music a bit.
Next up was “Uh Huh” by Jade Bird. This is her debut album and man is it a lot of fun. Starting with the Genalex, I immediately noticed the build up of the drums in the beginning of the song. They start quiet but steadily get louder until they fully join in, so to speak. Jade’s voice came across strong with a good open sound. Bass also hit hard. At 1:35, I noted that the whole band felt very present in the song, more than I’m used to. Switching to the GE, I looked out for the same cues. The drums in the beginning were audible at the same time but had less texture, making their emergence less satisfying. Jade’s voice also sounded a little smaller. The whole soundstage shrunk a bit. The bass wasn’t bad per se, but it sounded a little more “one-note.” At 1:35 I felt I could hear all the same details, but the sounds were disembodied. I didn’t have the same sense of the band being in a room together.
I moved on to “Roaring 20s” by Panic! At The Disco. The chorus sounded less inspirational on the GE, and the harshest moments of the song (it’s not a great recording, to be sure) were a bit smoother on the Genalex. Probably most importantly, the Genalex made the background transients clearer, giving a greater sense of space. Put another way, it sounded like there was something physically beyond the instruments. On the GE, the instruments seemed to float in an empty vacuum. This made everything sound like it had less energy, as if the emptiness was sponging up the sound. That might be a bit too poetic for your taste but I think it accurately describes how I felt listening to the song on each tube.
I then listened to “Uncharted (Live)” by Sara Bareilles from her album Brave Enough: Live at the Variety Playhouse, which I adore, and “Aerodynamic” by Daft Punk. So something live with a piano and something electronic. I didn’t mine too much new info from these songs. The piano sounded more real on the Genalex, and the decay of the instruments was more natural. Meanwhile, the GE doubled down on its tendency to make bass beats sound like one note.
On “Some Nights (Intro)” by fun. (not to be confused with “Some NIghts”), the background noises were more recessed on the GE. Vocals and piano sounded duller, and the song was less engaging overall.
The conclusions were clear at this point, but the GE was in the socket, so I decided to run one more song.
Listening to “Say It” by Maggie Rogers (on another spectacular debut album), the Genalex helped incorporate the bass beat into the track, whereas the GE made it sound more like a thump in the background. In the opening sequence of the song the Genalex provided greater bloom to the music. At around 2:30 in the track, the air around Maggie’s voice is more open and spacious through the Genalex. She sounds more ethereal.
First, a quick visual analysis: Both tubes seem “new” despite the GE being NOS, which is to say it’s perfectly clean inside. Up against a flashlight, the internal structures of the Genalex seems more complex than the GE. Another difference is that as soon as the amp is powered on with the GE tube, it lights up right away and is brighter than the Genalex. I’m also not a huge fan of the gold lion printed on the glass of the Genalex. Both have similar chrome tops. So, not that it matters, but looks slightly favor the GE. The gold pins on the Genalex are a nice touch, however.
Last night I had a chance to go to the SchiitrMeet where I quickly plugged some MrSpeakers Ethers into a Gungnir/Mjolnir stack to test out the Florence tracks that had underwhelmed me the night before. In short, they seemed up to stuff. So ya, maybe it’s not fair to compare $200 headphones with a $100 amp to $1500 speakers and more than $1000 worth of electronics (with dual subwoofers no less). But, in that spirit, I decided to start with some Florence and the Machine for my listening sessions again.
I picked “Big God” because I love that song and I didn’t listen to it in Part 1. Starting with the Genalex, I immediately thought it sounded pretty good. The bass went deep, had good definition and impact. Florence’s voice was clear and had good dimensionality. Switching to the GE, there were several changes. Within the first minute of the song, I thought that the soundstage was shallower. At around the 1 min mark, there is some echo in Florence’s voice that on the Genalex sounded like the echo in a room. On the GE, it sounded more like an echo affect that was flipped on digitally (which to be fair, is probably the case). At around 2:20 I thought the bass sounded stronger on the Genalex, and at 2:40 the music felt more lush. Being my first song, I decided to listen again on both tubes, and more or less confirmed these differences.
On to the the next song, the only repeat from Part 1, “100 Years”. GE was up first this time. I thought that at 0:45, the bass was a little lighter than I’m used too, though at 2:30 it hit harder. I felt that the song sounded a little thin overall, or that the soundstage wasn’t deep. Switching over the the Genalex pretty much fixed everything. Bass early on was better, and later in the song it was even more impactful and had more definition. The soundstage throughout also had more depth.
Honestly, I was already surprised by how big of a difference I was hearing, so I wanted to shake up the music a bit.
Next up was “Uh Huh” by Jade Bird. This is her debut album and man is it a lot of fun. Starting with the Genalex, I immediately noticed the build up of the drums in the beginning of the song. They start quiet but steadily get louder until they fully join in, so to speak. Jade’s voice came across strong with a good open sound. Bass also hit hard. At 1:35, I noted that the whole band felt very present in the song, more than I’m used to. Switching to the GE, I looked out for the same cues. The drums in the beginning were audible at the same time but had less texture, making their emergence less satisfying. Jade’s voice also sounded a little smaller. The whole soundstage shrunk a bit. The bass wasn’t bad per se, but it sounded a little more “one-note.” At 1:35 I felt I could hear all the same details, but the sounds were disembodied. I didn’t have the same sense of the band being in a room together.
I moved on to “Roaring 20s” by Panic! At The Disco. The chorus sounded less inspirational on the GE, and the harshest moments of the song (it’s not a great recording, to be sure) were a bit smoother on the Genalex. Probably most importantly, the Genalex made the background transients clearer, giving a greater sense of space. Put another way, it sounded like there was something physically beyond the instruments. On the GE, the instruments seemed to float in an empty vacuum. This made everything sound like it had less energy, as if the emptiness was sponging up the sound. That might be a bit too poetic for your taste but I think it accurately describes how I felt listening to the song on each tube.
I then listened to “Uncharted (Live)” by Sara Bareilles from her album Brave Enough: Live at the Variety Playhouse, which I adore, and “Aerodynamic” by Daft Punk. So something live with a piano and something electronic. I didn’t mine too much new info from these songs. The piano sounded more real on the Genalex, and the decay of the instruments was more natural. Meanwhile, the GE doubled down on its tendency to make bass beats sound like one note.
On “Some Nights (Intro)” by fun. (not to be confused with “Some NIghts”), the background noises were more recessed on the GE. Vocals and piano sounded duller, and the song was less engaging overall.
The conclusions were clear at this point, but the GE was in the socket, so I decided to run one more song.
Listening to “Say It” by Maggie Rogers (on another spectacular debut album), the Genalex helped incorporate the bass beat into the track, whereas the GE made it sound more like a thump in the background. In the opening sequence of the song the Genalex provided greater bloom to the music. At around 2:30 in the track, the air around Maggie’s voice is more open and spacious through the Genalex. She sounds more ethereal.
Conclusions
I have to say, I’m honestly surprised by the results. I was afraid I wouldn’t hear consistent differences in the character of each tube, or that the differences would be subtle, but this ended up being far from the case.
To sum up, the Genalex consistently provided a deeper and more open soundstage, presented instruments with greater texture and a heftier tone, and made everything feel more real. Background sounds were more present and better incorporated into the tracks. Bass sounded deeper and had greater definition. Really, it was no contest. There wasn’t a single aspect in which I felt the GE did a better job. Every song sounded noticeably better on the Genalex.
So ya, I’d say the money on the Genalex was definitely well spent. If you want to try a current production tube, I say go for it. I got mine from vivatubes.com for under $38 shipped, but you can find them many places.
I do want to note that none of this means the GE is a bad tube. I’ve listened to the Vali a bunch of times before with that tube and thought the amp sounded great. But there’s no getting around the consistent improvements I heard with the Genalex.
I have to say, this was a fun first foray into tube rolling. I can’t wait to try out the 6SN7 tubes I got in my Saga and see what differences they make. I’m not expecting the results to be as one-sided, but I’ll just have to listen.
As always, thanks for reading.
Last edited:
Taverius
Head-Fier
I never order USPS unless it's something really cheap or I have no choice.
Fedex/DHL will reliably spend 2 days at customs, USPS will go through the Italian postal service (cue wilhelm scream) and can and has spent 2 months at customs, and some time occasionally vanish.
Fedex/DHL will reliably spend 2 days at customs, USPS will go through the Italian postal service (cue wilhelm scream) and can and has spent 2 months at customs, and some time occasionally vanish.
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