[catspaw]

"Before you start the heavy breathing, we are not working on this."
 
In each chapter there are at least two phrases like this that make me smile .

 

[smitty1110]

 
I wouldn't take this as canonical either, but check out http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/terms.aspx -- $10,000 annually (less under small-manufacturer conditions, not specified) + a royalty (cents) per product. If product markup is 300% it may be NBD. If margins are relatively conservative and/or the volume of production is low, that starts to add up.

 

Well, that's not the worst license I've ever seen (I work in software, there are vendors that charge per thread per month. Brutal.), but it sure isn't the best. If you want to do a custom protocol over a high-speed cable, you're probably better off with ethernet or Display Port. Much less legal entanglement.

 

[tonykaz]

Hello Mr. Oh I see what you did there ,
 
Do you know of anyone doing A vs. B testing of DACs ? 
At the moment , only Subjective , "impressions" are being offered of stand-alone componants , it seems . 
A for-instance would be :
   Asgard vs. Valhala vs. Lyr  , this wouldn't be all that difficult but nobody's done it and published .   
Tony in Michigan

 

[OICWUTUDIDTHAR]

 
Hello Mr. Oh I see what you did there ,
 
Do you know of anyone doing A vs. B testing of DACs ? 
At the moment , only Subjective , "impressions" are being offered of stand-alone componants , it seems . 
A for-instance would be :
   Asgard vs. Valhala vs. Lyr  , this wouldn't be all that difficult but nobody's done it and published .   
Tony in Michigan

 
there are lots out there, just not on headfi as they are not allowed/ looked down upon.
 
Not pointing fingers just stating facts, I own a lot of overpriced stuff too

 

[money4me247]

  there are lots out there, just not on headfi as they are not allowed/ looked down upon.
 
Not pointing fingers just stating facts, I own a lot of overpriced stuff too

 
lol head-fi has some comparison reviews on dac/amps out there. however, this community in general never really engages in blind ABx comparison reviews. head-fi stands by the principle that anyone's own subjective experiences is the most important information & personal experiences cannot be argued with.

 

[jacal01]

 
I would be very surprised if that remained true in a commercial product.  "HDMI" is trademarked.

 
Checked around a little, and prevailing opinion with some of the current audio manufacturers offering LVDS I2S over HDMI is indeed that the licensing fees aren't applicable unless you're using their protocols and displaying their logo certifying HDMI compatibility as a selling point for your product.  The consumer product sticker for HDMI standard conformance is most likely the point of control for fees.  
 
So we got that going for us... 

 

[jacal01]

 
Felt the mighty wind from that head slap here in Nashville!

 
That slap you heard was probably my own forehead, as in <face palm>.

 

[Ableza]

   
Checked around a little, and prevailing opinion with some of the current audio manufacturers offering LVDS I2S over HDMI is indeed that the licensing fees aren't applicable unless you're using their protocols and displaying their logo certifying HDMI compatibility as a selling point for your product.  The consumer product sticker for HDMI standard conformance is most likely the point of control for fees.  
 
So we got that going for us... 

That's very interesting.  I wonder if it's because HDMI.org approves of such use or if it's simply because the market is so small they don't care unless it gets large enough to go after?

 

[Wildcatsare1]

That slap you heard was probably my own forehead, as in .

 

[sludgeogre]

  That's very interesting.  I wonder if it's because HDMI.org approves of such use or if it's simply because the market is so small they don't care unless it gets large enough to go after?

Its likely just the easiest way to get money out of the ordeal. If they made the terms such that if the designs supported the technology then a fee would be due, that would be much more difficult and time consuming to litigate. You'd have to have an engineer detail why the system accepts HDMI and why it infringes on their license in each case. That is a lot harder than having someone look at the case for a sticker and file a lawsuit based on a picture alone. Besides, most audio companies are just dying to tell you what fancy words they've crammed into their products, so it would seem strange for a company to support a standard and then not advertise the support.

 

[jacal01]

  That's very interesting.  I wonder if it's because HDMI.org approves of such use or if it's simply because the market is so small they don't care unless it gets large enough to go after?

It's because they probably are not aware of it and the market is too small.  And maybe because, if they are aware of it, they realize that it is arguably legally inapplicable and not worth the effort for the potential small market payoff.

 

[David Aldrich]

  I think David was suggesting it was my own fault for using a PC.
But then I like to "Roll (build) my own" and I hate being fashionable.
 
Perhaps the Standard was not tight enough.

Not a fault of yours, but that Windows audio drivers and Firewire chipsets rarely play nice. I too like to build my own, being fashionable has no value to me in computers, but the long term upkeep of Windows is enough of a deterrent for me, it's a daily drive not a race car.

 

[sludgeogre]

Firewire on a Windows machine is just asking for nightmares. I've never encountered a Firewire device that I liked. I can't even see why it has survived at all after USB became ubiquitous. Just seems like a way for Apple to rack up more licensing fees and make people buy dumb cables.

 

[Currawong]

 

 
Hello Mr. Oh I see what you did there ,
 
Do you know of anyone doing A vs. B testing of DACs ? 
At the moment , only Subjective , "impressions" are being offered of stand-alone componants , it seems . 
A for-instance would be :
   Asgard vs. Valhala vs. Lyr  , this wouldn't be all that difficult but nobody's done it and published .   
Tony in Michigan

 
there are lots out there, just not on headfi as they are not allowed/ looked down upon.
 
Not pointing fingers just stating facts, I own a lot of overpriced stuff too

 
Really?
 
In my observation, the vast majority of the time blind testing is brought up outside of when used in a review (which is perfectly acceptable anywhere on the forums) is during an attempt by someone to railroad their beliefs. For example, someone posted on one of my Youtube videos that they didn't think that they would be able to tell the thing I was talking about apart from some other device they owned. When an argument started, their reply was "This is science". Conjecture is not science. Conjecture is conjecture. So to correct what you wrote: Bringing up blind testing and ABX in threads on the forums is, in general, not allowed because it is not brought into discussions as science, it is brought in as trolling. Trolling is not science, it only serves to piss people off and adds nothing to the conversation. In fact, it gives science a bad name and very often ignores any actual experiments that have been done, as well as the experience of actual scientists.
 
An amusing anecdote: A friend of mine is head of a department in one of the major hospitals in the US. He commented to effect that he has very often seen multiple, full controlled, peer-reviewed double-blind studies in medicine that produced opposing results!

 

[Ableza]

In a previous life I conducted dozens of blind ABX and blind focus group tests of audio equipment, audio and video content, etc.  The only thing blind - or any other method - subjective testing determines is the taste of the participants.  It may or may not have any bearing whatsoever on the actual content or equipment being tested.  It only reveals the taste of the test subjects at that precise moment in time.  It is valuable information if what you are doing is trying to appeal to some mass taste at a given time, but it is completely useless as a designer's or manufacturer's tool - or, IMO, as a way to choose one piece of gear over another.  Trust your ears and your taste, and don't try to use your opinions to dictate to others and don't try to ascribe effects to causes based on subjective analysis.  And we will all go to bed happy.