[ModiHiFi]

Hey! I'm on your side!

This really isn't about the above examples being great solutions or even good ones at that, BUT my point is I believe that these examples were a solution to a known problem at the time they were developed. They were developed for a reason - to solve a known problem. Whether their solution was good or that they lasted is not the point. The above examples were attempts at solving an issue, they failed and better ones replaced them. We still have hi-res streaming and we have hi-res digital music, just better solutions in other forms.

The point I'm trying to make is better solutions are developed to known problems. What I don't really know is what is the problem Sony's Pentaconn connector is trying to solve. Why did they do it when there are very adequate solutions are already available as Jason clearly pointed out and I was hoping that someone might be able to shed some light on this one.

Cheers.

 

[bosiemoncrieff]

I didn't hear any difference between MQA and PCM when I enabled the Tidal version, though of course the real version requires a hardware MQA dac or something?

yay 4pin XLR!

 

[liquidsmote]

What that problem is and whether what they developed was a good solution or not remains to be seen I guess.

Proprietary connections and standards are frequently used as an attempted panacea for the "problem" of not enough revenue.

Sony has been less than successful at solving these "problems" with their "solutions."

Below is a good example that I have direct experience with. I still have my portable MiniDisc player I bought while in Japan .. the form factor was an excellent solution for the skipping CDs, unraveling tapes, and minuscule flash capacity of first gen MP3 players.

ATRAC was a bad "solution" to the problem of "revenue."

Sony Finally (Really) Dumps Proprietary ATRAC Format No One Wanted For Its Walkmen
from the what,-not-enough-rootkits? dept
It's been almost 3 years since Ken Kutaragi, then President of Sony Computer Entertainment, admitted that the company had made a huge strategic error in launching its digital music players and download store (Sony Connect) with its own proprietary ATRAC music format and DRM. Of course, admitting a mistake and actually doing something about it are two different things. A few different readers alerted us today that Sony is finally shutting down Sony Connect and ditching support for ATRAC in its new Walkmen, though they buried the details of it in paragraph 17 of a press release about the new music players. For those who had bought from Sony Connect and are now left with an unsupported DRM that won't be playable on any new music player... well.... you now have another reminder of why buying into DRM'd music is a huge risk. Sony is at least kind enough to explain to people how to get around the DRM using the standard cumbersome "burn to CD, rip anew" method, but that's definitely a pretty big pain for anyone who's purchased a sizable collection. Of course, that assumes that there was anyone out there who actually bought a sizable collection of music from Sony Connect and somehow that seems unlikely.

 

[Jason Stoddard]

In short, Sony's pentaconn solution was yet another in a long list of attempts to create a proprietary standard that answers no question other than, "Hey, how do we get more money from licensing?"

Same with DSD. That was a Sony thing, too. They're so disinterested in it that they never "opened the vaults" to release their catalog on DSD.

Same with MQA. There's exactly zero reason for MQA when the global average bandwidth is 7.2Mbps and it takes 2.3Mbps to stream 24/96 FLAC. If you really think MQA is a good idea, I suggest you read the patent, where features like selective degradation, phone-homes, and device shutdown (in other words, DRM) are enumerated.

 

[ModiHiFi]

Just for some interesting reading, here's something that Jude wrote (I wasn't able to quote him the normal way) from one of his posts on Head-Fi that shines some more light on this issue.

Regarding balanced audio connectors: I'd like to see the industry agree on a single standard, and I'm quite strongly inclined right now to support Pentaconn as that standard. I've been using Pentaconn with the Walkman NW-WM1Z for a few days (with the Sony MDR-Z1R and its included Pentaconn cable), and it's immediately apparent how much more durable and secure this plug / jack configuration feels, versus 2.5mm (which I have never been a fan of as a connector).

If you look at most 2.5mm plug implementations prior to its use as a portable balanced audio connector, you'll see they were usually on the ear side of a headphone cable, with the strain relieved by a coupling between the plug body and the receiving housing--not directly on the 2.5mm pin. However, since its adoption as a balanced audio connector, the jack sits flush, giving no support or strain relief to the 2.5mm plug--so the tiny plug itself bears the force of any strain. While I'm careful with these connections (knowing how delicate that 2.5mm plug and jack can be), I've found the connection almost always feels loose, due to its shallow insertion and tiny contact surface area--it pops out way too easily, sometimes just enough to mess up the connection, and often all the way out.

Before Pentaconn, I recommended to at least a few portable device manufacturers to reconsider their use of 2.5mm, and instead go to mini-XLR, or some such. Now that Pentaconn is here, though, and having used it, I think it's the way to go. I know of other manufacturers (in addition to Sony) that will be supporting Pentaconn in upcoming products. As mentioned by @deafdoorknob, JEITA (Japan Electronics and Information Technology Industries Association) saw fit to make Pentaconn a standard, and I'd like to see the personal audio industry follow suit.

I think I've found my answer (thank-you Jude). It seems the main reason he'd like to see Pentaconn used more is to have the industry agree on a single standard of connector because some of the alternatives are not up to scratch. From my understanding a TRRRS connector (like Pentaconn) can be used in any situation whether the plug be a TS, TRS, TRRS or TRRRS type connector. Is that correct? Perhaps someone can correct me on this one if I'm wrong.

Anyhow, I think I'm going to let this one rest as Jason's pointed out that he's not a huge fan of the Pentaconn for technical and financial reasons and the 1/8, 1/4 and XLR connectors are here to stay.

 

[ModiHiFi]

In short, Sony's pentaconn solution was yet another in a long list of attempts to create a proprietary standard that answers no question other than, "Hey, how do we get more money from licensing?"

Same with DSD. That was a Sony thing, too. They're so disinterested in it that they never "opened the vaults" to release their catalog on DSD.

Same with MQA. There's exactly zero reason for MQA when the global average bandwidth is 7.2Mbps and it takes 2.3Mbps to stream 24/96 FLAC. If you really think MQA is a good idea, I suggest you read the patent, where features like selective degradation, phone-homes, and device shutdown (in other words, DRM) are enumerated.

Just wanted to say a big thanks for replying.

Cheers from a huge fan!

 

[cskippy]

I think Sony Pentaconn connector will be sitting next to Kobiconn, IMO superior, connectors in no time...

Besides, everyone knows Apple leads the way and they're getting rid of analog connections.

 

[Ojisan]

Reference to JEITA got me curious and a quick search turned up

http://www.ndics.com/en/products/pentaconn/

This company claims it developed the connector and it was adopted in Sony product. Maybe it was funded by Sony (good for them ) but I don’t think there is royalty issues here.

I’m happy with my XLR but maybe the portable guys (a large market in Japan for that) wants a lighter weight/footprint balanced connector. Dunno...

 

[ModiHiFi]

Reference to JEITA got me curious and a quick search turned up

http://www.ndics.com/en/products/pentaconn/

This company claims it developed the connector and it was adopted in Sony product. Maybe it was funded by Sony (good for them ) but I don’t think there is royalty issues here.

I’m happy with my XLR but maybe the portable guys (a large market in Japan for that) wants a lighter weight/footprint balanced connector. Dunno...

Holy crap! Ojisan's right. Pentaconn is not Sony's baby after all. It was developed by Nippon Dics Co. Sony just use it probably because it's now a standard set by JEITA, and now Sennheiser are using it on their new HD 660S.

Nice find! However, it still doesn't note anything about royalty fees etc. but because it's a set standard there shouldn't be any problem with high royalties or any royalties, right?

 

[sublime9]

Cool, this thread was a little lifeless.

There is nothing special about that connector. I am going to develop a triskaidecagon connector for 11.1 headphones.

 

[scottcriswell]

Cool, this thread was a little lifeless.

There is nothing special about that connector. I am going to develop a triskaidecagon connector for 11.1 headphones.

Genius. +1.

 

[Domiran]

In short, Sony's pentaconn solution was yet another in a long list of attempts to create a proprietary standard that answers no question other than, "Hey, how do we get more money from licensing?"

Same with DSD. That was a Sony thing, too. They're so disinterested in it that they never "opened the vaults" to release their catalog on DSD.

Same with MQA. There's exactly zero reason for MQA when the global average bandwidth is 7.2Mbps and it takes 2.3Mbps to stream 24/96 FLAC. If you really think MQA is a good idea, I suggest you read the patent, where features like selective degradation, phone-homes, and device shutdown (in other words, DRM) are enumerated.

Would it be a cruel April Fool's joke to say that all Schiit products are adding support for MQA and removing every other input type?

 

[FrivolsListener]

Would it be a cruel April Fool's joke to say that all Schiit products are adding support for MQA and removing every other input type?

YOU get to answer the email!

 

[earnmyturns]

Nice find! However, it still doesn't note anything about royalty fees etc. but because it's a set standard there shouldn't be any problem with high royalties or any royalties, right?

Most real industry standards I know are covered by multiple patents and subject to fair, reasonable, and non-discriminatory terms (FRAND) licensing, until the patents expire. What is "reasonable" in FRAND has been highly disputed in patent courts.

 

[US Blues]

Pentaconn- The Betamax of headphone jacks.