[DSNORD]

I started my Schiittrain with a Mjolnir/Gungnir/LCD-X combo as my first high end home desktop system. It was fabulous. Gungnir today went back to Schiit for the multibit upgrade since it now lives at the office. Replaced MJ with Rag when it came out and dropped in some LS50s with a JLAudio e110. Yggy replaced Gungnir.

I think I've had my LCD-X on a total of about 2 hours in the last year because Yggy/Rag/e110 are just so frickin' awesome and sound more natural and full to me than having a speaker stuck to each ear.

Until a Schiit version of a Smythe Realizer comes along, I just don't get the same sense of realism from HPs as I do from 2 channel speakers. Never been to a concert sitting dead in the middle of the band. Might be cool but doesn't represent the way I hear sounds in general in my real world.

 

[winders]

Jason,
 
I sent this question in an email to Nick at Schiit Audio and he directed me here.
 
I am trying to understand the differences between the low and high gain modes with the Mjolnir 2.
 
I understand that negative feedback is used to lower the gain for the low gain setting. Does the negative feedback used in the Mjolnir 2 to lower the gain alter the signal other than by reducing noise? From what I have read, using negative feedback has to alter the signal. Do the alterations caused by adding (or by adding more) negative feedback reduce the accuracy of the signal? In other words, does the high gain mode or low gain mode provide a more accurate signal in comparison to what came out of the DAC?
 
I ask this because I am pretty sure I hear a difference in the two gain settings once I volume match. I wanted to find out if I am crazy or if the difference I hear is real. I also read on another forum you frequent that many prefer the high gain mode of the Mjolnir 2. The difference I hear has me leaning that way too.
 
Please don't just say to use whatever setting sounds best to you. I am not asking for you tell me if one sounds better than the other unless you want to express your opinion on that. I just want to know which setting is more accurate when compared to the signal coming out of the DAC.
 
Thanks!

 

[Letmebefrank]

  2016, Chapter 13:
Into the 2-Channel World: The Saga of Saga
(and, um, Freya too)
 
...snip...
 

1. Remote control. And this is the killer. None of our headphone amps have remote control, because, well, they're supposed to be sitting on your desk, or near at hand (headphone cables are, in fact, not infinite in length). And Ragnarok doesn't have a remote, because it was conceptualized and designed too early in our thought process regarding 2-channel gear. 2-channel stuff (where you're sitting back in your easy chair, looking at speakers across the room) really benefits from a remote control.

 
Ragnarok is hardly a desktop amplifier. If you're using it on your desk, you have a huge desk—or you have much greater patience than I do about how much crap you'll tolerate on your desk. It's really an old-school integrated, designed to be put in a rack. Yes, it's a headphone amplifier. And yes, it's a speaker amplifier. And yes, it really should have a remote. We'll get to that. Eventually.
 
...snip...

 
Bold and underlined relevant info.
 

 

[Jason Stoddard]

  Jason,
 
I sent this question in an email to Nick at Schiit Audio and he directed me here.
 
I am trying to understand the differences between the low and high gain modes with the Mjolnir 2.
 
I understand that negative feedback is used to lower the gain for the low gain setting. Does the negative feedback used in the Mjolnir 2 to lower the gain alter the signal other than by reducing noise? From what I have read, using negative feedback has to alter the signal. Do the alterations caused by adding (or by adding more) negative feedback reduce the accuracy of the signal? In other words, does the high gain mode or low gain mode provide a more accurate signal in comparison to what came out of the DAC?
 
I ask this because I am pretty sure I hear a difference in the two gain settings once I volume match. I wanted to find out if I am crazy or if the difference I hear is real. I also read on another forum you frequent that many prefer the high gain mode of the Mjolnir 2. The difference I hear has me leaning that way too.
 
Please don't just say to use whatever setting sounds best to you. I am not asking for you tell me if one sounds better than the other unless you want to express your opinion on that. I just want to know which setting is more accurate when compared to the signal coming out of the DAC.
 
Thanks!

Which is more accurate? LOL, I'll refer you to the measurement chapter. We can have a long, long, long discussion about the limits of measurement and whether or not the standard measurement suite has any bearing on subjective accuracy, or even objective accuracy beyond the few points of measurement.
 
So yes, the bottom line is: use the setting that sounds best to you.

 

[winders]

Okay, which gain setting alters the signal going through the amp more? High gain or low gain?

 

[Ableza]

  Okay, which gain setting alters the signal going through the amp more? High gain or low gain?

​The one that sounds worse to you. 

 

[earnmyturns]

   
Not a day goes by that I don't think on figuring out a way to shoehorn a pair of LS50's and a pair of compact subs somewhere in my 3 floor condo to utilize my Rag.

I'm sitting in my living room listening to my Reference 1 "successors" of the LS50s I used to own when I had a much smaller living room. When we moved to the new place, I found that the LS50s are not quite enough for the new space, so I upgraded. If I did not have a very nice and powerful Yggy-fed amp already, I'd be thinking about Vidars to power them. But for the smaller room, the LS50s were plenty, even with an amp less powerful than the Rag (Naim UnitiQute).

 

[taxiq]

  Okay, which gain setting alters the signal going through the amp more? High gain or low gain?

I'll vote for choice B: The one that sounds worse.  

 

[Astral Abyss]

Okay, which gain setting alters the signal going through the amp more? High gain or low gain?

I think you might be getting a bit paranoid.

 

[valiant66]

 

I am booked in for a hearing test this month.
Unless I've already missed it....
.

 
I hope you didn't miss it! I heard that on my side, most appointments have a 3 to 4 months waiting time (but I may be wrong; am calling some clinics to confirm)

 
I got a surprise call this morning asking if I was coming to my appointment this afternoon. When I asked if they could reschedule they said sure, next appointment last week of May. So I rearranged things and went.
 
Turns out I (probably) had a viral infection the first week of March that chewed up some of the cochlear hairs in my left ear. While my hearing is about normal for someone of my age who spent far too much time around live music, the virus knocked the sensitivity in my left ear down by 20-25 db, and they won't grow back. The recommendation is to get a cheap hearing aid ($1700!). Perhaps my career of spending far too much on stereo gear is winding down...
 
The takeaway for me was that if I had called the doctor the first morning I noticed the hearing problem, they would have been able to treat the virus with antibiotics and prevented the hearing degradation. Instead I just waited until my next scheduled doctor's appointment, by which time it was too late - damage done.
 
Caveat auditor.
.

 

[valiant66]

 

Maybe you're right but I understand the choice to go for the safe side as a manufacturer.
I hear the strangest stories about legal consequences of you don't cover your tracks.
They really know they would not be the first ones to implement an HT Pass Trough.

Isn't there a clever work around possible?
I'm not a technician but I know a thing or two about splitting sources before going into processing.

Use a Schiit Sys (or Balanced Equivalent) with the volume all the way up. Route the Freya and HT Processor through the two intputs.

 
No longer remote controlled.
.

 

[valiant66]

 
The Discussion of HT Pass through was debated and addressed back when the Freya was released.   It will be debated and questioned but Schiit seems to keep a Minimalist approach from what I can tell, It falls into the Power switch up front category.Sure it could be done but at what cost dollars wise and SQ wise. Although I have though since the freya has come out, the Extensive use of relays for input and output switching and volume control a relay controlled power switch would be pretty slick as relays use relatively low current for the trigger but again at what cost. Oh well I am enjoying the freya in my 2 channel rig. Nothing comes close to it in that price bracket and there may be very few that do even in the higher price bracket.

 
I seem to recall Jason saying that, to a certain extent, they listen to customer feedback. He hinted if there was enough of a fuss raised, they might consider adding HT bypass to the next rev of the Saga and Freya.
 
Or not.
.

 

[earnmyturns]

 
The takeaway for me was that if I had called the doctor the first morning I noticed the hearing problem, they would have been able to treat the virus with antibiotics and prevented the hearing degradation. Instead I just waited until my next scheduled doctor's appointment, by which time it was too late - damage done.

That sucks. Ten years ago I had a bad sinus infection at altitude in Chile, when I got back home I had full-blown pneumonia from the postnasal drip. I recovered from that, but a month later I developed left-ear tinnitus that never went away. Gets worse with lack of sleep/stress/flying/colds, but it's basically a narrow notch in my hearing (likely from a narrow band of dead hair cells).
 
One minor thing, though, antibiotics would not have done anything against a virus, only against (some) bacteria. For a viral infection, there's very little that can be done after you catch it, except for a few antivirals in extreme cases (as were used against Ebola virus for infected healthcare workers). 

 

[valiant66]

 

I doubt there will be a Rag 2. Just like there won't be a yggy 2.

Really?  I agree on the yggy.  Since it's upgrade-able, any revisions will most likely come in the form of an "upgrade"...
 
But with the Rag, it seems to me that we might expect the aforementioned remote, Jotty's pivot-point and/or Vidar topology with a power bump, with some type of tube integration.  Schiit's integrated could go a number of different places, all of which would be exciting as Schiit!

 
With all those changes it will no longer be a Ragnarok. Tubes =/= solid state. Circlotron =/= pivot point.
.

 

[valiant66]

 
Jason has stated in multiple posts that he does not want to stick his finger into the HT tar baby with its attendant HDMI interface issues. So, Schiit is a 2 channel and headphone company. HT lovers need not apply. 

 
HT passthrough is a pure two-channel thing. It has nothing to do with HDMI licensing issues, which is what both Jason and Mike despise. In fact, it is possibly the most "analog" of possible interfaces. No permission required. Jason is not opposed to HT per se, and has mentioned he owns an Emotiva XMC-1, he's just opposed to handing over control to an unelected standards body.
 
I understand their reluctance to trust that some customer won't be a drooling imbecile and blow their gear up by not reading the manual. *shrug* That may change.
 
Or not.
.