[rkindel]

I hope my Freya in route has the JJ tubes. The Tung Sol would be interesting as well. The pops I experienced were loud as gun shots and were not affected by the volume knob position. The cat was on my lap first time it happened. She must have jumped a foot.

 

[Btarr]

I hope my Freya in route has the JJ tubes. The Tung Sol would be interesting as well. The pops I experienced were loud as gun shots and were not affected by the volume knob position. The cat was on my lap first time it happened. She must have jumped a foot.

I hope for your sake that the cat was de-clawed

 

[rkindel]

I hope for your sake that the cat was de-clawed

Yes, we both are OK. Only damage was to our mental states.

 

[Btarr]

Schiit sent me a tracking # a few hours ago for my replacement Freya+. Estimate arrival 8-31-20.

So did the NEW Freya+ unit come in? And did the tubes continue open up? And for god sake tell us you got something better then the JJs to play with.

 

[rkindel]

So did the NEW Freya+ unit come in? And did the tubes continue open up? And for god sake tell us you got something better then the JJs to play with.

Yes, and this time it came with Tung Sol’s. I don’t know if it is because I now have a properly functioning tube section or if it is the tubes themselves but this one sounds significantly better cold out of the box. I suspect it’s the tubes. I ran them around 14 hours the first day and I don’t think I am there yet. Even now it is very enjoyable to listen to. If they improve even half as much as the JJs did I will be super satisfied. If they do, I would recommend the Tung Sol as a upgrade to anyone who is interested is a upgrade from the JJs. Listened the the Beatles “Love” CD with tubes. Enjoyed it beginning to end. Then I switched to passive stage and it was clear (Ha Ha) that the tubes still have a way to go.

 

[Btarr]

Yes, and this time it came with Tung Sol’s. I don’t know if it is because I now have a properly functioning tube section or if it is the tubes themselves but this one sounds significantly better cold out of the box. I suspect it’s the tubes. I ran them around 14 hours the first day and I don’t think I am there yet. Even now it is very enjoyable to listen to. If they improve even half as much as the JJs did I will be super satisfied. If they do, I would recommend the Tung Sol as a upgrade to anyone who is interested is a upgrade from the JJs. Listened the the Beatles “Love” CD with tubes. Enjoyed it beginning to end. Then I switched to passive stage and it was clear (Ha Ha) that the tubes still have a way to go.

I know that it really does not mean anything but the pricing (around the inter webs) of the JJs, the Tung-Sol, and the Electro-Harmonixs which my FREYA+ came with as stock, show the cheapest are the JJs and then the Ems, then the Tung-Sol. So if $ = quality... looks like maybe you got the "upgraded" tubes? Good for you if that's the fact. The Tung-Sols are noticeably better then the Em's, to my ear anyway never heard the JJs. Do give the TS a bit of burn in.

Well enjoy the new box!

 

[Crashem]

So I got Freya+ as gift. I had a bunch of 6sn7‘s lying around so I lent them to my buddy too. He called me up and said he was trying different tube pairs out. Said he really like the vt-231 Tungsols. haha of course he did. Funny thing is he knows nothing about tubes and which are which so there must be something to the round plate magic

 

[Btarr]

Man, I need to find someone with a box of tubes to burrow....

But until then I've got two PSVANE-UK's "cooking" in the freya right now.
I get moments of the potential that these have but, AS ADVERTISED, the PSVANE-uk's take along while to burn in.

I have some NOS CBS Hytron 6sn7GTB T-plate, O side getter coming today or tomorrow. I don't think these are anything really special but for $60 maybe I'll get a taste of the vintage tube sound everyone talks about.

 

[Btarr]

So I see this in "The 6sn7 Identification Guide"

"The 6SN7GTA and GTB versions were introduced in 1950 and 1954 respectively. They have ‘upgraded’ ratings, which are as follows.

GTA: maximum anode dissipation upgraded to 5W (the GT is rated for 2.5W)
GTB: identical to the GTA, but with a controlled heater warm up time for use in equipment with 600mA heater strings

This is significant because it means that a circuit designed around the 6SN7GTA/GTB cannot have 6SN7GTs substituted into it. Substituting a GT in place of a GTA/GTB in your equipment will precipitate its rapid destruction and possibly damage your equipment."

So the question is will 6sn7GT tubes kill the FREYA?

 

[KoshNaranek]

So I see this in "The 6sn7 Identification Guide"

"The 6SN7GTA and GTB versions were introduced in 1950 and 1954 respectively. They have ‘upgraded’ ratings, which are as follows.

GTA: maximum anode dissipation upgraded to 5W (the GT is rated for 2.5W)
GTB: identical to the GTA, but with a controlled heater warm up time for use in equipment with 600mA heater strings

This is significant because it means that a circuit designed around the 6SN7GTA/GTB cannot have 6SN7GTs substituted into it. Substituting a GT in place of a GTA/GTB in your equipment will precipitate its rapid destruction and possibly damage your equipment."

So the question is will 6sn7GT tubes kill the FREYA?

The heater circuit is not in series but in parallel. It does not apply

 

[Btarr]

The heater circuit is not in series but in parallel. It does not apply

Thanks for fielding a question from someone who knows just enough to ask dumb questions

 

[rkindel]

Further thoughts- The tube stage
I read recently that spring water is the purest drinking water found in nature and any contamination no matter how minute is very hard to remove later. My earlier raves describing the sound of the Freya’s passive stage were, of course, wrong. The passive stage has no sound of it’s own. My glowing praise was due to the removal of minute amounts of contamination from the preamp section of my Benchmark DAC. This DAC measures squeaky clean by the way. The big news concerning this preamp is the outstanding purity allowed by the design of the volume control. The same volume control used by all the various stages this preamp offers. I have never experienced a megabuck high end preamp and probably never will. But this passive stage delivers like my minds ear imagines those might. To do this for $899 makes the Freya+ the very definition of “giant killer” in my book.
My replacement Freya came with Tung Sol tubes. I’ve been listening to them for only a week now and that is probably too short a time to draw long term conclusions. Maybe (hopefully) big improvements are yet to be revealed. On the other hand I haven’t heard any significant changes in the last few days so I’m going to forge ahead with my preliminary opinion now.
The tube stage is not completely neutral. This is most obvious from the mid bass down. There is a bump that, on some material, can add warmth but on some material with significant bass content it can be, frankly, more like annoying. Secondly there is a definite roll off in deep bass. The drama and jump factor that is such a strong point with the passive stage suffers as a result. Lastly the bass overall is less tight and suffers a bit from bloat.
As you go up things improve. Perspective is neutral to slightly forward. Highs are mostly clean and definitively not soft with both the Tung Sol nor the JJ tubes I had previously. The Tung Sol tubes sounded pretty good out of the box while the JJs required required more time to achieve similar goodness.
I have struggled to hear aspects that could make the tube stage a viable alternative to the passive stage. I have not experienced any “halo graphic imaging”. I don’t hear the soundstage extend out beyond my speakers. In fact, I think the soundstage is more solid and open with the passive stage.
The one positive I have heard could be described as having a certain density or liquidity that is missing with the passive stage that is very nice. My DAC is known the have a somewhat dry sound so this coloration(?)could make a welcome change. This quality, unfortunately, is rather elusive. I have noticed a similar elusiveness with my system long before the Freya arrived. Some days I experience rapturous sound from my system that can disappear the next day. This liquidity seems to happen more at night just before I am ready to shut the system down. Maybe this has something to do with tube temps or something. I have also considered the quality of the electrical feed, atmospheric pressure or humidity or maybe what I ate for dinner. Who knows.
I would love to hear from others who appreciate the tube stage more. Maybe I’m not listening for the right thing or maybe I just haven’t given it enough time. I really want to like it more!
Bottom line- In the day of $10000 phono stages and power cords is $300 more for the tube stage over a preamp like the Freya S, when it was available, I would have to say yes. Even if the positive isn’t evident 100% of the time.

 

[Btarr]

Further thoughts- The tube stage
I read recently ....

I am with you 100% on the "certain density or liquidity that is missing with the passive stage". I think of it as standing in a mist VS a swimming in a pool, but yeah.

Regarding the lack holographic experience.
I felt/saw/heard prolonged flashes of holography when I first received my freya+, only with the Tung-Sols though. Mine came with EHs (stock) and I ordered TSs quad, matched yada' yada' from Schiit, thinking "upgrade".
Soon after I got a NOS pair of CBS/HYTRON 6SN7GTB... I don't think these are particularly special BUT these guys bring some more of the "thing" we are looking for.
So NOS.... NOS might be the answer? It was for me and now I have some: 6SN7 GTB RCA, bridge filament and Sylvania 6SN7GT "Staggered Black Plates" pairs on order.
So there's that then.

Also, I have the Schiit Modi-Multibit DAC and as Schiit says it measures badly relative to sigma delta DACs, but it, subjectively, sounds "better".

I'm just now wading into all this, so take the above with knowledge that I really don't know what the hell I'm talking about.

 

[rkindel]

I am with you 100% on the "certain density or liquidity that is missing with the passive stage". I think of it as standing in a mist VS a swimming in a pool, but yeah.

Regarding the lack holographic experience.
I felt/saw/heard prolonged flashes of holography when I first received my freya+, only with the Tung-Sols though. Mine came with EHs (stock) and I ordered TSs quad, matched yada' yada' from Schiit, thinking "upgrade".
Soon after I got a NOS pair of CBS/HYTRON 6SN7GTB... I don't think these are particularly special BUT these guys bring some more of the "thing" we are looking for.
So NOS.... NOS might be the answer? It was for me and now I have some: 6SN7 GTB RCA, bridge filament and Sylvania 6SN7GT "Staggered Black Plates" pairs on order.
So there's that then.

Also, I have the Schiit Modi-Multibit DAC and as Schiit says it measures badly relative to sigma delta DACs, but it, subjectively, sounds "better".

I'm just now wading into all this, so take the above with knowledge that I really don't know what the hell I'm talking about.

I see that Upscale Audio is promoting the CBS/Hyron tube on their website for a ungodly price. Interesting that you don’t find them all that special. Maybe I should try some other tubes. Do you hear the liquidity all the time with your Freya?

 

[Dueprocess]

I see that Upscale Audio is promoting the CBS/Hyron tube on their website for a ungodly price. Interesting that you don’t find them all that special. Maybe I should try some other tubes. Do you hear the liquidity all the time with your Freya?

After looking at various options online, I took a chance and went through Vintage Tube Services (following advice I rec'd on forums):
http://vintagetubeservices.com/

The website isn't the prettiest, and the buying process has to be handled over the phone, but the prices are very competitive, the supply appears to be transparent (stock list, model, year, etc. - all specific), and I had no complaints w. my order (RCA 6SN7 GTB). I'd shop there again.

I found the RCAs much better than the Tung Sols (which came w. Freya), and I'm happy with the $ spent.

That being said, when listening for "purity" (i.e. transparency / accuracy), I use the passive or JFET buffer, and I use those buffers for most of my casual listening, too. I only use the tube stage maybe 30% of the time.

Re: your "spring water" analogy earlier... tubes definitely add something to the music. Is that addition a contaminant or a flavor? I'd argue it's both. Sometimes I'm in the mood for it, but I wouldn't say it's "better" (it's undeniably distortion, or at least, whatever it is, it brings with it measurable distortion). I guess I say all that because, per your prior comments, you seem to put a lot of value in transparency and being "true to the source." The "magic" others find in tubes may not be what you consider magic, and if you're looking for the magic they describe, you might be chasing a ghost.

Personally, I enjoy having the option to listen to the tube stage, but I don't think I'd want it to be my only option. If I had to pick one option only, I wouldn't pick the tubes. Luckily, I don't have to choose just one. I usually use the same analogy for vinyl and for tubes (vs digital and passive / solid state): they're like an unfiltered beer... you get some sediment, and you get some character.