[bgentry]

Has anyone tried using the Bifrost MB with a preamp? I feel like the 2V output is not enough to satisfy my ears like the 4Vs coming out of my Theta. It gives my Asgard 2 more voltage swing to push my Alpha Dogs enough to where I don't get any sibilance at decent volume.

The Asgard 2, on high gain, produces full output into 32 Ohms with less than 1 Volt input. Which is a nice healthy 1 WRMS. On low gain mode, Asgard wants right around 3.75 V on it's input to produce full power. So, unless you are running in low gain mode, with relatively inefficient headphones, the Asgard 2 should have more than enough power with a DAC delivering 2V to it's inputs.

You're probably just reacting to the 6 dB of difference between the two DACs. Increased volume adds all kinds of perceptual cues that people pick up on.

OR maybe you just like the character of the Theta better. I've read several times in these forums that the Theta is slightly warmer and "fatter" sounding, particularly in the bass. That might make it sound more powerful due to slightly more bass oomph (that's a technical term. ) .

Brian.

 

[bigro]

 
I really wish I had something more definitive.  What I know is the following:  This phenomenon definitely exists, but only for the first 50-100 hours of the Bifrost's life.  The best guess is that it may have something to do with the various commands issued by our control microprocessor to the analog relays as well as the digital control inputs on the days and DSP.  Count on 100% of Bimby's to display this aberration for the first few hours of life after burn.  Count on 100% of Bimbys to self heal in early life.  After that point, they are all fine.  Leaving the units out in the cold (it was in the twenties here the other evening) will not bring the bad behavior back.  After that point, troubleshooting fails as it is impossible to fix something that is not broken.  Don't think I have given up on this, it is just that I have become less concerned as the problem cures itself.  

Mike, When you say the first 50-100 Hours are you meaning of actual playback or just being powered on?.I ask because at least in my brain--Edited-- while nothing is being played back there is not much going on--- other than keeping the Led lit, correct me if I am wrong. I have Had the Bimby a few days after its release and it has been powered on since then other than having to power cycle.The issue went away for weeks but reappeared a few days ago. The Bimby probably has less than a 100 hours of actual playback use because sadly that whole work thing gets in the way. I just want to make sure I am using the proper measurement.
 
Thanks

 

[mbusby]

"I ask because at least in my brain there really is not much going on". You might want to reword that. Reminds me of the newspaper headline when Dizzy Dean was hit in the head by a line drive while pitching... "X-rays of Dean's head reveals nothing".

 

[PerfectAnalog]

I really wish I had something more definitive.  What I know is the following:  This phenomenon definitely exists, but only for the first 50-100 hours of the Bifrost's life.  The best guess is that it may have something to do with the various commands issued by our control microprocessor to the analog relays as well as the digital control inputs on the days and DSP.  Count on 100% of Bimby's to display this aberration for the first few hours of life after burn.  Count on 100% of Bimbys to self heal in early life.  After that point, they are all fine.  Leaving the units out in the cold (it was in the twenties here the other evening) will not bring the bad behavior back.  After that point, troubleshooting fails as it is impossible to fix something that is not broken.  Don't think I have given up on this, it is just that I have become less concerned as the problem cures itself.  

Anecdotally: I have often seen ESD damage lead to problems that magically go away, only to reappear later after early product life. ESD problems are very hard to diagnose and find without quality debug tools. It might be worth asking the DAC chip mfg how their ESD sensitivity is on various pins.

 

[bigro]

  "I ask because at least in my brain there really is not much going on". You might want to reword that. Reminds me of the newspaper headline when Dizzy Dean was hit in the head by a line drive while pitching... "X-rays of Dean's head reveals nothing".

Ha Thanks. Clearly I was not to far off in the way it was worded originally.

 

[Baldr]

Since it is a control issue, 100 hours power-up time is required, with or without music.

 

[bigro]

  Since it is a control issue, 100 hours power-up time is required, with or without music.

The Bimby has been on for well over a month minus brief power cycles.  Should I Take this off line and send another Email to Schiit support?

 

[BeatsWork]

 
Ha Thanks. Clearly I was not to far off in the way it was worded originally.

 
Let's eat, grandma.
 
Let's eat grandma.
 
Big difference - just saying

 

[wahsmoh]

The Asgard 2, on high gain, produces full output into 32 Ohms with less than 1 Volt input. Which is a nice healthy 1 WRMS. On low gain mode, Asgard wants right around 3.75 V on it's input to produce full power. So, unless you are running in low gain mode, with relatively inefficient headphones, the Asgard 2 should have more than enough power with a DAC delivering 2V to it's inputs.

You're probably just reacting to the 6 dB of difference between the two DACs. Increased volume adds all kinds of perceptual cues that people pick up on.

OR maybe you just like the character of the Theta better. I've read several times in these forums that the Theta is slightly warmer and "fatter" sounding, particularly in the bass. That might make it sound more powerful due to slightly more bass oomph (that's a technical term. ) .

Brian.

Maybe it is just the latter. If output voltage doesn't mean anything, why is it that when volume matched my Theta still sounds "thicker." It has more drive and oomph. I guess I just like the Theta more.

My main question was if adding a preamp would change anything. I turn up the Asgard 2 louder with the Bifrost attached to make up for the voltage difference but it never gains the thickness of the Theta. Does a preamp add more input voltage? What does it do to add volume?
 
Another idea, if output voltage isn't necessary or useful.. why the Questyle CMA800i have listed on their specs that they have

1. Nax output amplitude：
   XLR：8.6Vrms；RCA：4.3Vrms. 4.3 V is not standard RCA output voltage but it is what my Theta also uses. By giving the amp dBs of increase maybe this helps the amp get more gain? BTW I use my Asgard 2 with high gain for the Alpha Dogs obviously

 

[Clemmaster]

 
Maybe it is just the latter. If output voltage doesn't mean anything, why is it that when volume matched my Theta still sounds "thicker." It has more drive and oomph. I guess I just like the Theta more.

My main question was if adding a preamp would change anything. I turn up the Asgard 2 louder with the Bifrost attached to make up for the voltage difference but it never gains the thickness of the Theta. Does a preamp add more input voltage? What does it do to add volume?
 
Another idea, if output voltage isn't necessary or useful.. why the Questyle CMA800i have listed on their specs that they have

1. Nax output amplitude：
   XLR：8.6Vrms；RCA：4.3Vrms. 4.3 V is not standard RCA output voltage but it is what my Theta also uses. By giving the amp dBs of increase maybe this helps the amp get more gain? BTW I use my Asgard 2 with high gain for the Alpha Dogs obviously

 
You're not alone.
 
I prefer the Gen V to the Gumby, for the same reason. Thicker and warmer sound.

 

[Baldr]

If there are any Bimby users with more than 100 hours on them which exhibit distortion when changing sampling rates that cure when inputs are cycled, please contact Schiit customer support.

 

[Soundsgoodtome]

Does this include users who purchased used by chance?

If there are any Bimby users with more than 100 hours on them which exhibit distortion when changing sampling rates that cure when inputs are cycled, please contact Schiit customer support.

 

[Baldr]

No, it is not a recall.

 

[bgentry]

Maybe it is just the latter. If output voltage doesn't mean anything, why is it that when volume matched my Theta still sounds "thicker." It has more drive and oomph. I guess I just like the Theta more.

I don't want to turn this into a big debate, but ... Are you sure you're level matched? Did you do it by ear or with a meter? The only reliable way to do it, is with a meter and a test signal. Something like pink noise, or a multi-tone signal like the JL Audio CleanSweep test track.

My main question was if adding a preamp would change anything. I turn up the Asgard 2 louder with the Bifrost attached to make up for the voltage difference but it never gains the thickness of the Theta. Does a preamp add more input voltage? What does it do to add volume?

Preamps add gain to get more volume. So yes, the output Voltage coming out of a preamp can be higher than the input Voltage if the preamp is active and has an internal gain of greater than 1. Preamps *can* also add their own sonic signature as well; any active component can.

Brian.

 

[bigro]

Baldr, Will Do. I am hoping it just takes a bit more time for the self healing to occur because the 99.9% of the time when the Bimby does whats expected it is awesome.
        
           Thank you.