[sludgeogre]

"Industry" terms may evolve and change, like how the term innovation has become so common place and all-encompassing that it doesn't really mean anything anymore.
 
However, actual technical terms, and burn-in is such a term, do not evolve or change meaning. The only thing that evolves is how people use them as common language, not as a technical term. If technical terms changed in my industry (chemical manufacturing) then we'd really be in a horrible situation. There are many terms that we have used for 100 years or more in my industry, and when you use those terms, you must be understood as meaning what the standard is, otherwise communication would be totally impossible between companies. We have enough insider terms in the wood products industry to make me to totally nuts.

 

[jacal01]

 
why are there black holes?

 
Inhomogeneous distribution of energy converted matter post Big Bang. 
 
Quote:

   If technical terms changed in my industry (chemical manufacturing) then we'd really be in a horrible situation.

 
My personal favorite is "due diligence".

 

[johnjen]

 
@johnjen has a nice chapter on Break In and Thermal Equilibrium that addresses the changes in sonic performance with operating time:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/781268/the-diyrs-cookbook/300#post_12384903

Speaking of this topic, I ran across this description/observation from a few years back, which I have expanded a bit.
 
All of this break-in process reminds me of the waveform of an impulse wave (that is self dampening) superimposed upon either an exponential curve or maybe just an arithmetic curve (straight line). 
Just before the initial impulse is applied (where the sound is ok), then as the impulse 'hits' and the impulse wave excites the resonant system, it responds and goes way high and then way low, (from ok, to different, to 'undesireable') then on the next cycle it's less 'undesireable', and even less so on each subsequent cycle. 
But all the while the 'baseline' continues to move up (away from undesirable).
That is, if the changes are truly 'Better'.
 
Which means the SQ is on average, improving, or at least changing and not getting 'worse', again if the newly introduced changes truly are 'Better'.
This analogy seems to work as the SQ, on average, tends to steadily get better, but until the self dampening reduces the swings away from the steadily rising baseline, the sound 'suffers' from seemingly losing ground and then gaining it back, and then improving, and then on to the next cycle…
 
And, after a while as this self dampening oscillation 'quiets down', that is when the determination can be made to determine if what instigated the impulse, was truly 'Better', or not.
 
Right now I'm reaching that point in the process where the baseline SQ has risen to new heights in SQ and is continuing to do so, albeit slowly.
This slow rate of change allows me to make the determination of 'Better' sooner rather than later, mostly because this is familiar territory, as in 'been here, seen this before, can recognize the patterns'.
 
This is when I get to hear my very familiar music, as if anew, again.
 
Just like I like.
 
JJ

 

[artur9]

  IMO the major changes occur within dielectrics.  Nearly every component has dielectric in contact with conductors, so it is no surprise that performance improves with time.  ...  Comparing an amp with 24 hours of burn-in with a 5-year-old model that has been running nicely warm in the field just isn't a fair fight.
 
But I agree about how people use hyperbole in describing the burn-in process.  Descriptions are variations for a given piece of equipment.  When we built class AB amps with major circuit upgrades, the new ones cold often beat the fully-burned-in old units.  But new units always have a reduced soundstage and less-clear imaging compared to burned-in units of the same generation.  

 
Does this reverse (become undone) if the "burned-in" device sits unused for a long period of time?  Just got an old pair of Odyssey mono blocks that supposedly take months to "burn in" when new and I'm hoping I don't have to wait months for them to reach peak.
 
Of course, thermal equilibrium is gone if the unit is turned off/unplugged for a while.
 
And why don't we say "break in" instead of "burn in"?

 

[sludgeogre]

   
Does this reverse (become undone) if the "burned-in" device sits unused for a long period of time?  Just got an old pair of Odyssey mono blocks that supposedly take months to "burn in" when new and I'm hoping I don't have to wait months for them to reach peak.
 
Of course, thermal equilibrium is gone if the unit is turned off/unplugged for a while.
 
And why don't we say "break in" instead of "burn in"?

In my experience, no, once a piece of equipment is burned in, it is burned in forever unless you start changing major components. I did this with a McIntosh MC2105 amp and it sounded great from start up and it hadn't been turned on in 20 years.
 
I see the same thing in motor starters for pumps and agitators in the chemical plants I've worked in. When you install a new piece of equipment on an old electrical system, unless there are issues with the system that haven't been checked, it'll fire right up like it was used yesterday.

I think break in refers more appropriately to mechanical compliance wear over time, like how a rubber surround can seem a bit more flexible after being used for a while because the material has flexed enough, just like breaking in a new pair of pants. Burn in should only be used to refer to electrical components being ran in for the first time, and it really has nothing to do with the components aging or anything, that is totally a misuse by the audiophile world. It only refers to starting a piece of equipment in a controlled environment and observing how it functions before placing it into normal, every day service. It's just a QC step, really, to test for components that may fail shortly after startup or to find other manufacturing defects.

 

[defbear]

I had a burned in bifrost uber. I sent it in for the multibit upgrade. Is it still burned in? It sure sounds like it.

 

[sludgeogre]

I had a burned in bifrost uber. I sent it in for the multibit upgrade. Is it still burned in? It sure sounds like it.

The Bifrost Multibit only cares about running at it's point of thermal equilibrium. Burn in doesn't really apply here IMO. Burn in is their QC check after doing the upgrade.

 

[artur9]

Anyone know if there's any issue running the 'Frost on its side, like a book?  That's the best way it fits in my overly-full shelf...

 

[bixby]

It will be 90 degrees out of phase, but you should not notice it until you try to play DSD.

 

[theveterans]

 The Bifrost Multibit only cares about running at it's point of thermal equilibrium. Burn in doesn't really apply here IMO. Burn in is their QC check after doing the upgrade.

 
My experience is that the first time I listened to Bimby, it took at least 2 days of nonstop playback for it to sound very good. After months of use, it only takes around 30 minutes to 1 hour from cold for the graininess to be completely gone and for it to sound natural. However, this is from using USB input. Not sure if other inputs sound better than the Schiit Gen 2 USB. I'm waiting for the W4S microlink USB to SPDIF to get delivered to test if Bimby will sound better on coax from cold and after thermal equilibrium.

 

[ericr]

It will be 90 degrees out of phase, but you should not notice it until you try to play DSD.

Home & sick as a dog today...


... thanks for a well needed laugh!

 

[bixby]

Sorry to hear that, no alcohol
Lots of rest and try to get some full body sun at noon, and close to nude if you can,

 

[vocalstrance]

I asked Schiit about having my Ragnarok on its side like that, they said that falls and ventillation problems could occur, so I decided against that since space is not a big issue for me.
With the temperature of my Bifrost being barely warm in an enclosed area, ventilation shouldn't be an issue for you. I would put up some support to prevent a fall.

 

[Astral Abyss]

I asked Schiit about having my Ragnarok on its side like that, they said that falls and ventillation problems could occur, so I decided against that since space is not a big issue for me.
With the temperature of my Bifrost being barely warm in an enclosed area, ventilation shouldn't be an issue for you. I would put up some support to prevent a fall.

 
Schiit's DACs don't have ventillation holes, so no worries.  Jason has shown the Bifrost in the vertical position at shows before, apparently at the behest of his wife, who uses it in that configuration.  So, I think you're safe to put the Bifrost on its side.
 
And if you're still worried, I have my Yggy on its side, albeit on rubber standoffs.  It's doing quite well.  Just to be sure, I did email support initially and the only thing Nick responded with is that it might tip over and cause damage, otherwise, no problem.  

 

[Sam Lord]

   
Does this reverse (become undone) if the "burned-in" device sits unused for a long period of time?  Just got an old pair of Odyssey mono blocks that supposedly take months to "burn in" when new and I'm hoping I don't have to wait months for them to reach peak.
 
Of course, thermal equilibrium is gone if the unit is turned off/unplugged for a while.
 
And why don't we say "break in" instead of "burn in"?

 
No, though I suppose some pieces can take a bit longer to reach thermal equilibrium if they haven't been turned on for a very long time.  I like the term break in, works for me, but burn in really invokes the heat of the process.  Anyway, complete burn in, from builders and owners, involves chemical changes that stay for a *very* long time.  It's the entropy of stressed systems.
 
The mechanics of operating electronic equipment are similar for all machines: they tend to increase Q and fragility over time.  A car's engine increases its efficiency for a large number of miles driven...I think around 5 years of operation is typical.  Most pieces get stronger in certain respects, and practically all become less ductile with use.
 
A Stradivarius is a simple example.  When people say they need to be played regularly to sound their best, it's not an idle statement.  The added stresses and vibration of playing affect its structure.  We don't know how good a new Strad sounded, but it was *very* unlikely to be as good as a functioning one today that has been played a lot.  Today Strads are very fragile, almost like crystals (very high Q), which is a big reason why they sound great.