notfitforpublic
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These ones: http://www.head-fi.org/t/626399/the-best-of-the-bunch-russian-tubes-for-schiit-valhalla-version-1-2
Send him a PM. Good chance he has some left
Schiit Bifrost 4490 impressions
- Thread starter cyberridz
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These ones: http://www.head-fi.org/t/626399/the-best-of-the-bunch-russian-tubes-for-schiit-valhalla-version-1-2
Send him a PM. Good chance he has some left
ColtMrFire
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Just purchased a Bifrost 4490 from a head-fi seller, excited to receive it. Upgrading from my (non uber) Modi 2, so I'm excited to hear the difference. I heard a difference even going from my old Audioengine D1 to the Modi 2, and they have the same DAC chip.
Welcome to the club Colt! I'm sure you'll love your 4490, listen to some womens vocals for a real good time.
ColtMrFire
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I just got some Sade albums, so yeah, I'm ready.
Me x3
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In my experience, a very clean USB is needed in order to get the most out of the Bifrost 4490.
I had an entry level Lenovo G50 when I got my Bifrost 4490 and had to use a powered USB HUB to make it work.
The sound was on the bassy side bleeding into the midrange and lacking Modi 2 Uber's precision and timing.
So I went ahead and bought a high grade Asus N-Series.
The powered USB HUB is not needed anymore and the Bifrost 4490 sounds way better.
More precise, more transparent, more layered in the sub-bass.
I don't have a Wyrd so I can't comment on (Lenovo G50 + Wyrd) vs Asus N-Series
I had an entry level Lenovo G50 when I got my Bifrost 4490 and had to use a powered USB HUB to make it work.
The sound was on the bassy side bleeding into the midrange and lacking Modi 2 Uber's precision and timing.
So I went ahead and bought a high grade Asus N-Series.
The powered USB HUB is not needed anymore and the Bifrost 4490 sounds way better.
More precise, more transparent, more layered in the sub-bass.
I don't have a Wyrd so I can't comment on (Lenovo G50 + Wyrd) vs Asus N-Series
ColtMrFire
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I have two audioquest jitterbugs plugged into my laptop, which has cleaned up the USB signal tremendously, so I've got that covered.
ColtMrFire
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Bifrost 4490 has arrived. Playing random tracks in JRiver to test this baby out, so far Ennio Morricone, PJ Harvey, Marvin Gaye...
My immediate impressions are very good... the sound seems more nuanced, detailed and more... liquid, and even has more of an analogue feel than the Modi 2. In more vague terms, the sound is more "musical" and seems to have more "soul" and authenticity to it.
I am very happy with this purchase!
My immediate impressions are very good... the sound seems more nuanced, detailed and more... liquid, and even has more of an analogue feel than the Modi 2. In more vague terms, the sound is more "musical" and seems to have more "soul" and authenticity to it.
I am very happy with this purchase!
ColtMrFire
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Bifrost has been on for the last 2.5 days. The initial impressions were that it was a clear upgrade from the Modi 2, no questions asked. But I was kind of bothered by a harsh edge to the sound in certain tracks. I know it wasn't a burn in issue, because I bought it used, so it plenty of hours on it.
I recognized this same problem from my Modi 2 DAC, and ended up installing a tiny bit of ERS paper inside the DAC to neutralize any EMI/RFI, which made a significant difference in terms of the clarity, resolution, soundstage, etc. EMI/RFI was causing some pretty nasty grain/edge that wasn't totally apparent until it was removed.
So I decided to repeat the procedure with the Bifrost, and WOW, as impressive as it was before, it is simply sublime now. Just a liquid, soothing, realistic portrayal of anything thrown at it (including bad recordings). I did the ERS paper last night, pretty late, so didn't have a alot of time to listen, so this morning I got up and played some tracks:
Jack Johnson - In Between Dreams - Better Together
The bass guitar was alot more "present", rather than being kind of smeared in the background, which made the song feel alot more like a multi-performed piece, rather than just Jack being front and center...even though he is very much so, it still felt like someone else was playing along with him.
Brahms - Violin Concerto in D Minor
Sophie Anne Mutter's virtuoso violin solo is alot more distinct and allowed me the chance to admire it more, especially since it is often competing with the orchestral background, but even with that background, individual instruments are far more... well, individual... and not just kind of bleeding into each other. As a result, the entire performance is just sublime.
Radiohead - I Might Be Wrong: Live Recordings - Morning Bell/Spinning Plates
An amazing thing happened in the middle of MOrning Bell... every time I've heard this recording (many times), it always felt like I was in the audience, and that the microphones were out among the audience. Listening now, I suddenly felt as if I were on stage and the audience was "out there"... seems rather trivial, but it was a strong eureka like feeling and deeply satisfying. This isn't even getting into how much more "live" and "you are there" it felt, with the placement and distinct character of individual instruments and performers being alot easier to discern.
Jamiroquai - Traveling Without Moving (remastered) - Cosmic Girl
This album always sounded like schiit, muffled from a bad master. The remaster does a decent job of cleaning it up, but it still sounds terrible... alot more listeninable, but it sounded like I was listening to Jamiroquai in a separate booth, rather than being in the booth with him, like on most decent recordings.
Howard Shore - Aviator soundtrack - Icarus
Icarus is one of my favorite pieces of orchestral music ever. A thunderous performance that goes through alot of different frequencies. This time, it was revelatory... the individual instruments were much more obvious in their contribution to the whole of the piece, and they each sounded distinctly different in terms of tone, weight, etc... I was moving my hands around like a conductor, because it felt like it was in front of me.
It's hard to believe I only paid $300 for this DAC, because it sounds much, much more expensive. Paired with my nuetral HD600, everything has been taken to a new level in terms of realism. Especially classical...
I recognized this same problem from my Modi 2 DAC, and ended up installing a tiny bit of ERS paper inside the DAC to neutralize any EMI/RFI, which made a significant difference in terms of the clarity, resolution, soundstage, etc. EMI/RFI was causing some pretty nasty grain/edge that wasn't totally apparent until it was removed.
So I decided to repeat the procedure with the Bifrost, and WOW, as impressive as it was before, it is simply sublime now. Just a liquid, soothing, realistic portrayal of anything thrown at it (including bad recordings). I did the ERS paper last night, pretty late, so didn't have a alot of time to listen, so this morning I got up and played some tracks:
Jack Johnson - In Between Dreams - Better Together
The bass guitar was alot more "present", rather than being kind of smeared in the background, which made the song feel alot more like a multi-performed piece, rather than just Jack being front and center...even though he is very much so, it still felt like someone else was playing along with him.
Brahms - Violin Concerto in D Minor
Sophie Anne Mutter's virtuoso violin solo is alot more distinct and allowed me the chance to admire it more, especially since it is often competing with the orchestral background, but even with that background, individual instruments are far more... well, individual... and not just kind of bleeding into each other. As a result, the entire performance is just sublime.
Radiohead - I Might Be Wrong: Live Recordings - Morning Bell/Spinning Plates
An amazing thing happened in the middle of MOrning Bell... every time I've heard this recording (many times), it always felt like I was in the audience, and that the microphones were out among the audience. Listening now, I suddenly felt as if I were on stage and the audience was "out there"... seems rather trivial, but it was a strong eureka like feeling and deeply satisfying. This isn't even getting into how much more "live" and "you are there" it felt, with the placement and distinct character of individual instruments and performers being alot easier to discern.
Jamiroquai - Traveling Without Moving (remastered) - Cosmic Girl
This album always sounded like schiit, muffled from a bad master. The remaster does a decent job of cleaning it up, but it still sounds terrible... alot more listeninable, but it sounded like I was listening to Jamiroquai in a separate booth, rather than being in the booth with him, like on most decent recordings.
Howard Shore - Aviator soundtrack - Icarus
Icarus is one of my favorite pieces of orchestral music ever. A thunderous performance that goes through alot of different frequencies. This time, it was revelatory... the individual instruments were much more obvious in their contribution to the whole of the piece, and they each sounded distinctly different in terms of tone, weight, etc... I was moving my hands around like a conductor, because it felt like it was in front of me.
It's hard to believe I only paid $300 for this DAC, because it sounds much, much more expensive. Paired with my nuetral HD600, everything has been taken to a new level in terms of realism. Especially classical...
landroni
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I'm very curious about this... Could you give some more details on what you used and how you installed it?
ColtMrFire
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I stumbled upon the ERS cloth randomly browsing sound forums. I didn't even know EMI/RFI was a thing, but apparently it affects many electronic components. Curious, I went to this site and ordered one sheet:
http://www.musicdirect.com/p-7021-stillpoints-ers-cloth.aspx
Very cheap, so why not give it a shot? I read some reviews saying it improved the character of the sound by removing interference that can manifest as grain, or harshness, and make things sound more "digital".
There isn't much of a blueprint online for how to use the stuff, I had to go by various anecdotal accounts... some people put entire sheets around interconnects, power cables, inside DACs, amps, CD players, etc... some people use very small pieces on microchips.
The first thing I did was cut a piece big enough to fit inside my Modi 2 DAC. This definitely changed the sound, but it was hard to tell whether it was good or bad... I had to listen for a while to come to the conclusion that the sound was "bleached", just sort of scrubbed of character and had gotten a bit flat. It was too much, which I'd read could be a problem.
So decided to cut very small pieces that fit over the individual microchips inside the Modi 2, and that was definitely a huge improvement. It's hard to do it justice with words, but a layer of "digital grime" I didn't even know what there, had been completely removed. As a result, the sound became much more "realistic" and natural... everything just sounded real... I know that's vague, and it's not like I would've said the sound was "fake" before the modification and I was perfectly happy with the way it sounded before (besides the harsh edge to certain music), it's just that I didn't realize how inauthentic the sound actually was until the EMI/RFI was removed.
A tried various configurations of the ERS paper inside my Denon receiver, but nothing I did made any difference on that front. I even tried wrapping my power cord with the stuff... no difference. At one point I opened my laptop and put small pieces over some of the components, but this had a negative effect... again, the sound became "bleached" so to speak.
THE most significant improvement came from putting small bits inside my DAC (over the microchips). I applied this same method when I got my Bifrost. Before I did it though, I wanted to listen to it without it to see what it would sound like on its own. I was extremely impressed... the Bifrost 4490 is several steps above the Modi 2 without question.
BUT, I still recognized this "digital harshness" that was present, since I'd gotten to know it so well, making the change with my Modi 2. It wasn't as bad with the Bifrost, but became impossible to ignore once I knew what it sounded like. So I did the same thing I did with the Modi 2, put pieces small enough to fit over the microchips inside the Bifrost (and also a very small square piece over the power transformer), and holy schiit it was... hard to put into words, but again, it was a significant improvement in terms of "realism". Any sense of "digital" was completely removed, and it was just the music, as if being played live. I experienced this to a small degree with the Modi 2, but it was way, way more pronounced with the Bifrost, since it has a much better DAC.
At this point I'm never buying a DAC without using the ERS paper. The difference is too dramatic for me to ignore. I went from enjoying my music with some caveats, to being completely enveloped and almost overwhelmed by it. These are my own person experiences/opinions, and should be taken as such. My advice is, since the ERS paper is so cheap, there's no reason not to try for yourself to see if you get any results. Everywhere I've read said they got the best results using it inside CD players (which has a DAC in it), or inside DACs... and this was also my experience.
An important tip... if you cut the ERS paper, make sure the edges don't touch any electronic components, as it can cause a short. I used double sided tape on the bottom of the pieces and placed them on top of the chips, which seem to be fine. Or you can put tape on the edges, but if the pieces are small, it's a but trickier. It's something you have to DYI and experiment with, which does make it fun.
http://www.musicdirect.com/p-7021-stillpoints-ers-cloth.aspx
Very cheap, so why not give it a shot? I read some reviews saying it improved the character of the sound by removing interference that can manifest as grain, or harshness, and make things sound more "digital".
There isn't much of a blueprint online for how to use the stuff, I had to go by various anecdotal accounts... some people put entire sheets around interconnects, power cables, inside DACs, amps, CD players, etc... some people use very small pieces on microchips.
The first thing I did was cut a piece big enough to fit inside my Modi 2 DAC. This definitely changed the sound, but it was hard to tell whether it was good or bad... I had to listen for a while to come to the conclusion that the sound was "bleached", just sort of scrubbed of character and had gotten a bit flat. It was too much, which I'd read could be a problem.
So decided to cut very small pieces that fit over the individual microchips inside the Modi 2, and that was definitely a huge improvement. It's hard to do it justice with words, but a layer of "digital grime" I didn't even know what there, had been completely removed. As a result, the sound became much more "realistic" and natural... everything just sounded real... I know that's vague, and it's not like I would've said the sound was "fake" before the modification and I was perfectly happy with the way it sounded before (besides the harsh edge to certain music), it's just that I didn't realize how inauthentic the sound actually was until the EMI/RFI was removed.
A tried various configurations of the ERS paper inside my Denon receiver, but nothing I did made any difference on that front. I even tried wrapping my power cord with the stuff... no difference. At one point I opened my laptop and put small pieces over some of the components, but this had a negative effect... again, the sound became "bleached" so to speak.
THE most significant improvement came from putting small bits inside my DAC (over the microchips). I applied this same method when I got my Bifrost. Before I did it though, I wanted to listen to it without it to see what it would sound like on its own. I was extremely impressed... the Bifrost 4490 is several steps above the Modi 2 without question.
BUT, I still recognized this "digital harshness" that was present, since I'd gotten to know it so well, making the change with my Modi 2. It wasn't as bad with the Bifrost, but became impossible to ignore once I knew what it sounded like. So I did the same thing I did with the Modi 2, put pieces small enough to fit over the microchips inside the Bifrost (and also a very small square piece over the power transformer), and holy schiit it was... hard to put into words, but again, it was a significant improvement in terms of "realism". Any sense of "digital" was completely removed, and it was just the music, as if being played live. I experienced this to a small degree with the Modi 2, but it was way, way more pronounced with the Bifrost, since it has a much better DAC.
At this point I'm never buying a DAC without using the ERS paper. The difference is too dramatic for me to ignore. I went from enjoying my music with some caveats, to being completely enveloped and almost overwhelmed by it. These are my own person experiences/opinions, and should be taken as such. My advice is, since the ERS paper is so cheap, there's no reason not to try for yourself to see if you get any results. Everywhere I've read said they got the best results using it inside CD players (which has a DAC in it), or inside DACs... and this was also my experience.
An important tip... if you cut the ERS paper, make sure the edges don't touch any electronic components, as it can cause a short. I used double sided tape on the bottom of the pieces and placed them on top of the chips, which seem to be fine. Or you can put tape on the edges, but if the pieces are small, it's a but trickier. It's something you have to DYI and experiment with, which does make it fun.
ColtMrFire
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One thing I forgot to add above was that with the ERS paper, I can turn the sound up much louder without any hint of fatigue or pain (which was definitely not the case before). As a result, I can hear smaller details better because I can tolerate louder volumes.
landroni
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Very useful info, thanks. May I suggest posting this tweak in the DIY'rs thread:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/781268/the-diyrs-cookbook
Such tweaks are right up that alley...
ColtMrFire
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crazychile
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Back in the day, (early 90s) we used to cover the dac chips and other ICs with wide copper foil tape one would use for stained glass projects. Muchh in the same way that paper is in the photos. It made a noticeable improvement in smoothness and low level details. I wonder how that ERS stuff would compare. The copper foil is pretty cheap. I think I still have a partial roll in my parts box somewhere.....
ColtMrFire
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I'm having a hard time finding comparisons of the 4490frost to the Schiit Gungnir. Especially since the frost has four different versions floating around. Original, uber, 4490 and multibit.
Is the Gungnir worth the upgrade from the 4490frost? I suppose the fact that it has balanced outputs counts for something. Having never heard balanced, I'm not sure.
Is the Gungnir worth the upgrade from the 4490frost? I suppose the fact that it has balanced outputs counts for something. Having never heard balanced, I'm not sure.
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